Why Are So Many Cats And Dogs Being Pts In Pounds?

[Dame Aussie]

I haven't read the whole thread but I would have liked to have seen an option to vote on perhaps " unresolvable behavioural issues" as I think many genuine pet owners do try to keep their pets but may not be offered - or be able to afford - the access to professionals who can perhaps help them. Hence they feel they have no option but to "surrender" their dogs.

What would you call an unresolvable behavioural issue?

Anything that is impacting negatively on the owners or the community and that the owners feel may be unresolvable.

I would agree, only problem is a lot of owners think a dog barking or escaping is an unresolvable issue so dump the dog at the pound. I've seen it too many times. I just feel that this is making excuses. I don't mean you personally lavendergirl but owners who just can't be bothered working on behavioural issues.

These people need to get it through their heads that when you get a dog you are making a commitment, for the dogs life, to training that dog and dealing with any behavioural issues. If you dont have the time, inclination or funds to do so you shouldn't get a dog.

[jacqui835]

Very sad topic. I voted other on both options (though I wasn't so aware of the feral cat problem prior to reading through this thread), and education for people about dog ownership.

For the person who posted about desexing being mandatory in Norway, you have your facts mixed up. In most Scandinavian countries, you need a really good reason to have your animal desexed - they view it in the same way as tail docking etc. For anyone who is interested, here is an article that talks about that: Neutering in Norway

I see desexing as an attempt to treat a symptom of a much greater problem. It's true that if all dogs and cats were desexed, well we would have very few cats or dogs very quickly. But surely no-one here would try and claim that entire dogs don't make good pets, can't be controlled, trained whatever. There's not a single desexed dog at my new training club, and yet they are competing for some of the highest titles achievable by dogs.

If our goal is merely to reduce the number of pets in society, then mandatory desexing could achieve that (if enforced harshly enough - though that would be very costly). But if our goal is instead to achieve more responsible pet ownership, well I would prefer to take the money it would cost to subsidise desexing and police/enforce the policy and use it for an aggressive advertising campaign - detailing the benefits of pet ownership, the responsibilities associated, likely costs, development periods - what to expect kind of thing etc. Or maybe not advertising, but free or strongly subsidised 'training' sessions. Maybe both. Maybe you pay a tax on pets that helps to cover some of this. I'm not sure, I'd need to think about it more.

It's possible that the majority of people should never be pet owners, and that dogs and cats should only be owned by a few lucky people but that concerns me, because then how could we hope to sustain healthy gene pools in all the breeds we have? And I have seen first hand what pet ownership can do for people, so in my mind, I would be desperate to try and improve the homes and improve people's understanding before I threw in the towel and supported policies to try and drastically reduce the number of companion animals.

Something has gone wrong in Australia when it comes to pet ownership. We don't see it as a priveledge, as potential benefits on offer if you devote the time and energy, we see them as lesser creatures that can be used to entertain children/adults for a while. And yet many don't even understand the dog, they humanise them, they think they're doing as much as they can for the dog by spending all this money, letting the dog do what they want, giving the cat 'freedom' etc. These are people that want the best for their animals, they just don't know what that involves. And then yeah there are the low-lifes who couldn't care less, who do want pets for the wrong reason. So there needs to be harsher accountability for owners. If your pet causes problems, doesn't get exercised, trained etc well we need to change our definitions of abuse and if we did that, we would stop a lot of people from being able to create problems.

People need to understand that yes, pets are possessions, but training, exercise and socialising are more than desirable, they're essential.

[jacqui835]

I haven't read the whole thread but I would have liked to have seen an option to vote on perhaps " unresolvable behavioural issues" as I think many genuine pet owners do try to keep their pets but may not be offered - or be able to afford - the access to professionals who can perhaps help them. Hence they feel they have no option but to "surrender" their dogs.

What would you call an unresolvable behavioural issue?

Anything that is impacting negatively on the owners or the community and that the owners feel may be unresolvable.

I would agree, only problem is a lot of owners think a dog barking or escaping is an unresolvable issue so dump the dog at the pound. I've seen it too many times. I just feel that this is making excuses. I don't mean you personally lavendergirl but owners who just can't be bothered working on behavioural issues.

These people need to get it through their heads that when you get a dog you are making a commitment, for the dogs life, to training that dog and dealing with any behavioural issues. If you dont have the time, inclination or funds to do so you shouldn't get a dog.

This should be done before they bring home the pet though. I started with a puppy, and it was only ever a case of teaching the right things and maintaining that. That's much easier than repairing problems. But it's also easier because if you are training your dog from day 1, you have a much stronger bond. When people say they don't have time to address the needs/issues of their dogs, often they are saying, I don't care enough about this to invest time/money. They didn't understand the dog to begin with, and so they have a limited bond/relationship with the animal. First sign of trouble shows up, well, where's the incentive?

[Dame Aussie]

I haven't read the whole thread but I would have liked to have seen an option to vote on perhaps " unresolvable behavioural issues" as I think many genuine pet owners do try to keep their pets but may not be offered - or be able to afford - the access to professionals who can perhaps help them. Hence they feel they have no option but to "surrender" their dogs.

What would you call an unresolvable behavioural issue?

Anything that is impacting negatively on the owners or the community and that the owners feel may be unresolvable.

I would agree, only problem is a lot of owners think a dog barking or escaping is an unresolvable issue so dump the dog at the pound. I've seen it too many times. I just feel that this is making excuses. I don't mean you personally lavendergirl but owners who just can't be bothered working on behavioural issues.

These people need to get it through their heads that when you get a dog you are making a commitment, for the dogs life, to training that dog and dealing with any behavioural issues. If you dont have the time, inclination or funds to do so you shouldn't get a dog.

This should be done before they bring home the pet though. I started with a puppy, and it was only ever a case of teaching the right things and maintaining that. That's much easier than repairing problems. But it's also easier because if you are training your dog from day 1, you have a much stronger bond. When people say they don't have time to address the needs/issues of their dogs, often they are saying, I don't care enough about this to invest time/money. They didn't understand the dog to begin with, and so they have a limited bond/relationship with the animal. First sign of trouble shows up, well, where's the incentive?

Yeah, that's what I was saying.

[jacqui835]

For anyone else who is truly interested...

Interesting articles re Pet Overpopulation

Scroll down on the right and you will see links to lots of academic articles about desexing dogs.

Edited November 28, 2011 by jacqui835

[sandgrubber]

No overpopulation?

There's no overpopulation of cute puppies. Seems like everybody wants a puppy. Babies have them on their PJ's, in their story books, and on their television shows. Its like society tells kids, from six months onward, that they have the right to have a puppy. Lots of adults who could turn down a grown dog get all soft when it comes to a puppy.

But a lot of people lack the time and resources to raise a puppy properly. So when the cuteness wears off, and all too often, when the dog starts barking too much, escaping, annoying people, digging holes, fighting with other dogs . . . or the kids get tired of picking up dog pooh, even though they promised they would, and they take the dog to a round of training classes, but it doesn't fix the problem. Somehow drifts to another home, and eventually ends up in a pound.

Some people are willing to look at adopting a pound dog instead of getting a puppy . . . but not enough to make the books balance.

btw, The cost of subsidizing a spey or neuter is more or less the same as the cost of euthanising and cremating a dog.

Scandinavians don't often neuter their dogs. But I'd guess fewer than 1 in 10 dogs in Scandanavia is allowed to reproduce.

[Greyt]

For the person who posted about desexing being mandatory in Norway, you have your facts mixed up. In most Scandinavian countries, you need a really good reason to have your animal desexed - they view it in the same way as tail docking etc. For anyone who is interested, here is an article that talks about that: Neutering in Norway

People need to understand that yes, pets are possessions, but training, exercise and socialising are more than desirable, they're essential.

Fair enough... my bad. The rest of this lady's experience is to the best of my recollection, her factual experience ie, Strict licensing, regulation and enforcement of rules around breeding, no pounds, financial and fit to be a pet owner vetting.

The community (cultural, social, economic, regulatory) expectations are completely different vs Australia.

...and so are the outcomes.

[Guest lavendergirl]

I haven't read the whole thread but I would have liked to have seen an option to vote on perhaps " unresolvable behavioural issues" as I think many genuine pet owners do try to keep their pets but may not be offered - or be able to afford - the access to professionals who can perhaps help them. Hence they feel they have no option but to "surrender" their dogs.

What would you call an unresolvable behavioural issue?

Anything that is impacting negatively on the owners or the community and that the owners feel may be unresolvable.

I would agree, only problem is a lot of owners think a dog barking or escaping is an unresolvable issue so dump the dog at the pound. I've seen it too many times. I just feel that this is making excuses. I don't mean you personally lavendergirl but owners who just can't be bothered working on behavioural issues.

These people need to get it through their heads that when you get a dog you are making a commitment, for the dogs life, to training that dog and dealing with any behavioural issues. If you dont have the time, inclination or funds to do so you shouldn't get a dog.

Yes but, rightly or wrongly, for the purposes of the poll seeking to identify reasons for pets being PTS in pounds - one of the major reasons for surrenders is behavioural problems. Not always aggression but things like barking, escaping etc. As to whether these problems warrant PTS would be at the pound's discretion.

[Leema]

I am not going to respond to individual points anymore, because this thread has 'taken off' and is fuelling discussion on it's own. However, if there's something in particular that you'd like my response/opinion about, I'd be happy to (just point me to it). In the meantime, I'll sit back and read.

I am really enjoying some of the policy suggestions, and everything else. Thank-you to those who are taking the time to comment.

[liverchips]

I think most dogs that are found it shelters and pounds are crosses, particularly indistinguishable crosses. These types of dogs are usually given away as a puppy because they can not be sold. So someone gets offered a free puppy and without giving it much thought they say yes, why not. It has cost them nothing and they were never planning to get a dog so they take the puppy on IMPULSE. Once the puppy grows up the same irresponsible person who took the puppy dumps it. This is just my opinion. Of course what we need is to conduct a study to prove where MOST of these dogs actually come from. Unfortunately certain Animal Rights groups are using figures of dogs being put to sleep to mislead the public into supporting their own agenda.

[Kippy]

I think most dogs that are found it shelters and pounds are crosses, particularly indistinguishable crosses. These types of dogs are usually given away as a puppy because they can not be sold. So someone gets offered a free puppy and without giving it much thought they say yes, why not. It has cost them nothing and they were never planning to get a dog so they take the puppy on IMPULSE. Once the puppy grows up the same irresponsible person who took the puppy dumps it. This is just my opinion. Of course what we need is to conduct a study to prove where MOST of these dogs actually come from. Unfortunately certain Animal Rights groups are using figures of dogs being put to sleep to mislead the public into supporting their own agenda.

Yes, I agree.

I also think the best way to reduce the amount of surplus dogs is regulate breeding practices, require a licence to breed dogs, make unlicenced random breedings an offence. The 2 dog per household rules work fairly well not that it's well policed but most people are cautious of it, even people who do sneak in a 3rd without a permit are pretty careful in management not to draw attention to themselves and get away with it, but the irresponsible over subscribed generally get caught from complaints about their dogs etc and the council catch up with them, breeding without a permit/licence I think would follow a similar pattern and be self regulating to large extent.

At the moment, anyone can breed dogs openly, but start restricting this practice I think would be a good start and step in the right direction?

[experiencedfun]

this option bothers me Trap, neuter, release programs for unowned cats.

Why would you release an unowned cat back into the community?

[Trisven13]

Because apparently the research has shown that if you don't put them back into their area another family of cats move in who CAN reproduce.

[Leema]

Also, re: Trap, neuter, release programs. 'Unowned' cats are often semi-owned by a number of people who put food out and 'keep an eye on' the cats, in a casual sense.

[megan_]

Also, re: Trap, neuter, release programs. 'Unowned' cats are often semi-owned by a number of people who put food out and 'keep an eye on' the cats, in a casual sense.

For me, the issue of the destruction of native animals has never been addressed by the catch, neuter and release advocates. Often research comes from the US, where native animals have a lot of natural predators anyway. I understand that some people love cats, but they can be ruthless killers. No one would ever suggest letting stray, nuetered dogs roam around suburbia...

[Dame Aussie]

Also, re: Trap, neuter, release programs. 'Unowned' cats are often semi-owned by a number of people who put food out and 'keep an eye on' the cats, in a casual sense.

For me, the issue of the destruction of native animals has never been addressed by the catch, neuter and release advocates. Often research comes from the US, where native animals have a lot of natural predators anyway. I understand that some people love cats, but they can be ruthless killers. No one would ever suggest letting stray, nuetered dogs roam around suburbia...

I'd have to agree, I don't think it's teaching people to be responsible if it's ok for them to just feed random strays, isn't this what we're trying to stop?

[jacqui835]

Interesting, here is a quote from a Norwegian on a thread asking people whether they consider themselves pet owners or pet parents.

"When I've had a pet, I've thought of myself as a pet owner, but with the understanding that owning a living creature is very different from owning, say, a house or a car. "Caretaker" might be a better term, since it implies a fundamental responsibility."

[tdierikx]

Contrary to popular belief, most of the animals that end up in pounds and shelters AREN'T "broken" in any way, shape, or form...

Unfortunately, pets are often viewed as objects - easy to discard when no longer necessary to requirement.

If they aren't broken, then why aren't they getting homes? Are homes truly not available for unbroken dogs? I've rehomed some pretty broken dogs through rescue in my time - homes do exist, they're just harder to find.

We've already talked about education to prevent pets being seen as disposable. Do you like this idea? Do you have better ideas?

There are literally thousands of perfectly nice, friendly, healthy dogs in pounds and shelters all over Australia. Unfortunately the general public perception of pound/shelter animals is that they are there because there is/was something wrong with them due to their owners surrendering or just not reclaiming them. Equally unfortunately, not much is being done by the government departments tasked with dealing with the "problem" - easy route for pound contractors is to house for the mandated time then euth, and collect the fees for same from the councils who contracted the pound service. Thank god for the pounds that actively work with rescue to at least reduce the numbers of animals being euthed... they are true heroes IMHO.

I'm a BIG believer in the fact that EDUCATION is the key to changing anything - especially when it comes to our furry friends who have found themselves homeless. It could be as simple as a half page (or even a quarter page) reminder in the community/local newspapers that there are more places to source a pet than the local pet shop or BYB. Some papers have a dog or cat of the week section - maybe that could be a good spot to add some extra info about the local pounds, shelters, or rescue organisations, and what they are offering to the community in the way of perfectly lovely pets.

Every day in this country rescues are rehoming animals sourced from pounds or private surrenders, so there isn't necessarily an "overpopulation" of pets - some just need more time than pounds and/or large shelters can give them to find their new forever homes is all.

I've always thought that there was something lacking in learning only the Three R's in school... I'd like to throw in another one ®espect... respect for other living beings - be they human OR animal.

T.

[Aphra]

The question about why so many dogs and cats are being killed in pounds isn't the same question as why do so many cats and dogs end up in pounds.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

I've ticked quite a few boxes. I have many years experience of rescue - getting dogs from pounds and from owners who no longer want or can keep them. I like to find out where they got the dog the first place and why.

So, from my experience, I would recommend the following:

1. Close down petshops.

2. Compulsory desexing for all cats/dogs (apart from breeder's breeding dogs and show dogs)

3. Attendance at a course on responsible pet ownership BEFORE adopting

This sounds harsh of course but when you know the statistics in Australia, something really radical needs to happen or it will just continue unabated. We are not only up against petshops now but the internet "quick fix" sales. We are up against morons cross breeding and creating fancy names and claiming they are "breeders" and the average idiot doesn't know that they haven't got a purebred dog because the "breeder" mated their female Shepherd to a male Husky and created a "Snow Shepherd" with associated b---shit, making someone think they have something special ... when they've got a mongrel.

I dont know how you address the greed in society (making money from breeding animals and selling them for a ridiculous amount of dollars - having money doesn't appear to make people more discerning unfortunately) or the lack of commitment to animals - far too many dump their older and sick dogs in the pounds for someone else to rescue and find out it's all too late so that they can go and get a "new" dog.

I've heard and seen it all, too many times. I despair of people.