aussielover Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Link (too long to post the whole article): Can the bulldog be saved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koalathebear Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Very interesting and thought-provoking article. Will be interested in the comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullbreedlover Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Actually everything in the article has been thrown about for years and years. Nothing new, nothing different. It is just another witch hunt for a beautiful breed. I must congratulate ANKC and NZKC though for not changing the standard as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koalathebear Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 So the article is untrue? I don't know anything about bulldogs so found the article interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullbreedlover Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 So the article is untrue? I don't know anything about bulldogs so found the article interesting. No. The article is not untrue. The Bulldog is a man made breed. There is no disputing that. I am just sick of hearing about articles like this. The Bulldog got saved back in 1859 when Dog shows first commenced after Bullbaiting got abolished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted November 24, 2011 Author Share Posted November 24, 2011 This article was sent to myself and other students by another vet. I admit I was shocked that many of the Uga bulldogs died so early. I don't know if it is just that particular line of bulldogs (and if it is, one must wonder why they keep using them?), I haven't heard such shocking life expectancies in australian Bulldogs. Are British Bulldogs as popular in Australia as they are in the US and Britain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roova Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Squashy faced dogs are my favorite breed by far but I can't help but wonder how the modern day bulldog would handle the sport they were once bred for? Does the current standard relate any more to what they were once bred for? They'd be puffed and exhausted before getting half way across a paddock! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 For further discussion see http://pedigreedogsexposed.blogspot.com/ The Bulldog Club of America makes a controversial claim in this week's New York Times Magazine's damning cover story on Bulldogs. Distancing itself from UK data which put the Bulldog's median age of death at just over six years old, a spokesperson for the Bulldog Club of America insists that US bulldogs are healthier than those in England. Great... so what is the average of age death for the Bulldog in America, then? Er, they don't know. No one has done the work, or not recently at least - although US vet school data gathered between 1980 and 1990 found that the average age of death in Bulldogs was just 4.6 years. But perhaps there is other data to support the BCA's claim in the article that US bulldogs are healthy? Well, no, there isn't. In fact, the OFA lists the Bulldog as the breed worst affected by hip dysplasia (over 70 per cent of dogs tested are dysplastic); and a recent paper exploring causes of death in US dogs found that the Bulldog was the breed most likely (18 per cent) to die due to respiratory problems and was only beaten by the Newfoundland as the breed most likely to die from congenital problems. The New York Times' long and thoroughly-researched article, by writer Benoit Denizet-Lewis, is a real indictment of what we have done to the Bulldog and it makes for painful reading. Breeders will no doubt find reason to dismiss the piece for including quotes from the the HSUS's Wayne Pacelle, but the testimony from expert after expert on the breed's many health woes is compelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blonde_Phoenix Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 I thought that was a very thought provoking article, it wasn’t an easy read and throws up quite a few ethical landmines. Not being involved with the breed I am in no position to state how similar the Australian situation is to the UK and US examples in the article. I think those involved with Bulldogs (and other dogs with major health concerns for that matter) have to be careful about putting their heads in the sand, it’s far too easy to dismiss article such as this one purely as a ‘witch-hunt’. If I was involved in the breed my real concern would be that an animal welfare organisation (well meaning or otherwise) would get in the ear of government and unless breeders are able to provide the figures that back up their claims that the breed is healthy (and that they continue to be proactive in ensuring their breeds health) they will face the very real possibility of breed bans. A situation I’d hate to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koalathebear Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 (edited) I think those involved with Bulldogs (and other dogs with major health concerns for that matter) have to be careful about putting their heads in the sand, its far too easy to dismiss article such as this one purely as a witch-hunt. If I was involved in the breed my real concern would be that an animal welfare organisation (well meaning or otherwise) would get in the ear of government and unless breeders are able to provide the figures that back up their claims that the breed is healthy (and that they continue to be proactive in ensuring their breeds health) they will face the very real possibility of breed bans. A situation Id hate to see. I agree with you. I am by no means an authority in this area but as a layperson looking in, it does appear as though some breeds appear to be more prone to health problems than others. While it's possible to say that disreputable, irresponsible breeders are responsible for some of the problems, it does appear that some breeds have certain basic health problems that arise even if the breeder is reputable and does all the proper testing. I have Kelpies and for the most part, they tend to be a pretty healthy and hardy breed with few health issues so when I read about the health issues in some other breeds, I can't help thinking that if a breed I loved had so many problems, I'd want to be trying to tackle the issue, trying to resolve the problem and kick up an almighty fuss to try to maximise focus/funding/support to alleviate the problem e.g. in the way that Border Collie and Kelpie breeders try to tackle ataxia etc. Edited November 25, 2011 by koalathebear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roova Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 (edited) I think the only way a change would occur is if the standard was changed though. Those who show and who probably breed the most are stuck following a standard which might not be doing the dogs any favours. What does it take to change a standard? Petitions or vet reports? It probably also takes the breeders to want to change their dog which probably wouldn't happen without a fight with the majority? Edited November 25, 2011 by Roova Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJean Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 (edited) You're Australians. So if you word it right I'm sure you can get some kind of ban put in place. Isn't it? Edited November 25, 2011 by lilli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Just in case someone wants to run out and report me for being anti dog shows or anti ANKC please allow me to say - thats not true. I believe its important to adhere to a breed standard and for the majority of breeders to select for that as well as health and temperament in order for us to have predictible dogs into the future. However, blind freddie can see that this has gone way over what most people see as acceptable. What are the breeders of this breed in this country doing about it to make it better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blonde_Phoenix Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 What are the breeders of this breed in this country doing about it to make it better? I think that is a question all breeder should ask themselves not just Bulldog breeders. I'm quite optimistic that a lot have good answers to this question, but I think if they don't they should really reconsider what their priorities are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisovar Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 I think the problem is not so much the Breed standard but how it is interpreted by some Breeders, there are and always have been typey sound healthy British Bulldogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blonde_Phoenix Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 But do 'typey sound healthy British Bulldogs' win at shows? I don't have the answer I just pose inane questions ;) but they are what people are thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 (edited) But do 'typey sound healthy British Bulldogs' win at shows? I don't have the answer I just pose inane questions ;) but they are what people are thinking. I think there are also unhealthy dogs being bred because it is easy to just keep going the way they are, not just to win in the show ring. WWhy fix health problems when everyone accepts them? So educating the public- telling them they CAN get their lovely BB without all the health problems seems like a more positive approach than trying to butt heads with people who may not want to listen. If they can't sell their pups then they can't come close to covering expenses which would decrease their numbers, allowing the typey healthy BB to become the norm. Just a different angle. I think it is hard to make any changes from a negative point of view. I am currently trying to come up with a positive approach to eliminating health problems in my own breed that are being ignored. To come at it head on will only cause people to duck for cover. Educating every potential puppy buyer about relevant questions is one step that I have taken to let breeders know that letting things slip is unacceptable. But I am trying to look for other approaches to. Edited November 25, 2011 by Jumabaar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullbreedlover Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 But do 'typey sound healthy British Bulldogs' win at shows? I don't have the answer I just pose inane questions ;) but they are what people are thinking. One would hope so. As a Bulldog owner/breeder/show person (for 31 years) and judge (for 12 years), typey sound healthy dogs should be foremost on any persons breeding programme. Without type a dog is merely a dog. Type is what best describes a breed. Interpretation of the standard is a huge problem that many people have. How can one breeder have different views than another in regards to how their Bulldog should look? I cant answer that question because I am not the other breeder. I know what my ideal or near ideal Bulldog should look like. Many many breeders are out there to make a quick buck. I make no apologies for that remark. It is true. They have no regard for health issues, they have no idea what they are doing when they breed their bitch to someones dog down the road, yet they think they know it all. It is these people who are doing the breed so much harm. Sadly it is the true loyal breeders who have to pick up the pieces later when things go wrong. What more do you want me to say? Thankfully there are some great breeders out there who care about preserving the breed, Articles like this only fuel the fire of the do-gooders who think that dog shows shouldnt exist and any unhealthy dog must mean that all dogs of that breed must be unhealthy. One day they may look at the human race and pick that to pieces as they should be doing already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 But do 'typey sound healthy British Bulldogs' win at shows? I don't have the answer I just pose inane questions ;) but they are what people are thinking. They sure do win and win big. I can only assume that the the British Bulldogs in our showrings are much healthier than those overseas because of the comments so often made by international judges. British Bulldogs have an amazing amount of success against other breeds at major shows with international judges and the judges often comment on how nice it is to see typey, sound moving Bulldogs that can run around the ring even in hot weather without any ill effects. Apparently this is rare elsewhere and they are so amazed that they put them up. The standard could be altered a little to the benefit of the dogs but they biggest problem is all the non-show breeders cashing in on the popularity of the breed. Breeding healthy BBs is hard work and only the most dedicated breeders can pull it off. Sadly most of the breed numbers come from those that really don't care about the breed. I am not a fan of any Brachy breeds and would never own one but I do have a soft spot for well bred BBs because of their personality. They are real characters and I can understand the dedication their breeders have for them, despite the problems, but cannot fathom why so many average pet owners would want one, with all the potential problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blonde_Phoenix Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Bullbreedlover to be honest I'm not sure what more you can say, I think you have summed things up pretty well. I extend you the upmost respect you are brave enough to put yourself out there to defend the breed you obviously love. I hate the fact if legislations change it's the guys who are doing the right thing who will suffer the most. And unfortunately if that was to occur I think you guys would be left out on your own, the rest of us would shake our heads and say "yeah well we all know Bulldogs (or any other breed which we are not involved with) are unhealthy/poorly bred/only about making money, there is no issues with our breed of course" . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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