toy*dog Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 (edited) Chris Brown makes a plea for puppies Dr Chris Brown calls for a ban on the sale of factory-bred puppies in pet shops, classified adverts and online. Picture: Supplied. Supplied >>IT'S absurd, a nation that considers dog to be man's best friend doesn't even know where its puppies come from. Puppies are an emotive thing - everyone sees a cute little creature - but the reality is, so many start life in the inhumane and horrific surroundings of a puppy factory. >>While doing a report for The 7pm Project, I met Oscar’s Law campaigner Debra Tranter. She’d rescued dogs from a puppy factory and they were in a bad way. They were filthy, their teeth and ears hadn’t been looked after, and one had mammary cancer. They’d been treated like commodities and hadn’t been given any respect. Even if you’re not an animal person, you’d be disturbed by the images coming out of these factories. >>You can walk into a supermarket and tell if an egg came from a barn or cage, but there’s no way of knowing where a puppy comes from. There’s an issue with defining ‘puppy factories’. How can you tell the difference between a factory and a breeder with a lot of dogs? Someone needs to take responsibility for regulation. >>It all starts with the government changing the law. We need a system that says, if you sell animals, you must provide details of the breeder, who must go through a rigorous process to ensure their practices are humane. Until we have such a system, questions must be asked about whether pet shops should be selling puppies at all. >>If you can’t be sure where a puppy came from, don’t buy it. The only way to stamp out the problem is by removing demand. Get your puppy from the pound, shelter or a registered breeder. Don’t be blinded by the cute. What Oscar’s Law calls for: • An end to puppy factories. • Councils to properly police standards in breeders around the country. • A ban on the sale of factory-bred puppies in pet shops, classified adverts and online. To learn how you can support the campaign, visit www.oscarslaw.org. - In conversation with Rihannon Sawyer article Edited November 24, 2011 by toy*dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erinonthefarm Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inevitablue Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Maybe he should stop recommending people go out and buy an 'oodle' then! 2 + 2 = 4 Chris...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalteseLuna Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Maybe he should stop recommending people go out and buy an 'oodle' then! 2 + 2 = 4 Chris...... Exactly - it's quite odd how inconsistent his statements are sometimes. Sometimes it's "the best dog is a oodle" and sometimes it's "don't buy from pet stores" and sometimes it's "pet stores are great - thats why I bought a surprise puppy for the newscaster this morning" ... should make up his mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 should make up his mind. Is his name really Chris because he doesnt seem to know if he's Arthur or Martha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minimiss Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 should make up his mind. Is his name really Chris because he doesnt seem to know if he's Arthur or Martha I noticed he is really inconsistent too. I suppose whoever pays him more! I really think for the public to start being educated, there needs to be consistent information given. None of this Chris Brown / Don Burke stuff that changes by the week! No wonder people who don't know any better are confused! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erinonthefarm Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Oh so it is the same guy, I got confused because last I heard the bondi vet was expousing the virtues of oodles so I thought it must be someone else! He is probably changing his tune because its bad PR to support breeds which come from puppy farms, I doubt he has any real concern about where someone buys a dog, so long as they watch his show. On the up side, at least he is saying the right thing now, must have got a new manager By the way, there is an oodle in Renbury at the moment who was surrendered because she gave the child in the family allergies, so much for being allergy free..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erinonthefarm Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 "IT'S absurd, a nation that considers dog to be man's best friend doesn't even know where its puppies come from." Chris Brown Um yes Chris :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Perhaps its time someone had a real chat with him - often when someone appears to be inconsistent its because there are assumptions in there which mean the message is changing. I dont think when he says registered breeder we hear what he thinks that is because we think CC registered - its the same old issue over and over and over and it's still about the definition of puppy farmers and registered and crap about this epidemic of filthy breeders who sell illegally bred puppies to pet shops. Remember Oscars law is based in Victoria and illegal is considered someone who is not registered as a domestic animal business with the necessary DA's.Its not about how many they have or breed.Big commercial kennels breeding first cross dogs which many of us consider puppy mills are given a tick - which may explain why he says buy an oddle from a registered breeder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacqui835 Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 (edited) Maybe he should stop recommending people go out and buy an 'oodle' then! 2 + 2 = 4 Chris...... Exactly - it's quite odd how inconsistent his statements are sometimes. Sometimes it's "the best dog is a oodle" and sometimes it's "don't buy from pet stores" and sometimes it's "pet stores are great - thats why I bought a surprise puppy for the newscaster this morning" ... should make up his mind. Surely this has to be a bit of a step in the right direction though? If someone is breeding and raising 'oodles in their home well that's still a much better start to life than being in a pet shop where you have to defecate where you eat and sleep right? There is debate over the whole situation with BYB's (I certainly won't be going into it again anytime soon on these forums) - but the sale of live animals in petshops and spending all that crucial socialisation/bonding time away from people is undeniably bad. Edited November 24, 2011 by jacqui835 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 To be fair, he isn't the one who recently advised on radio that the best dog to get was anything crossed with a poodle, that was someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkhe Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Maybe he should stop recommending people go out and buy an 'oodle' then! 2 + 2 = 4 Chris...... Exactly - it's quite odd how inconsistent his statements are sometimes. Sometimes it's "the best dog is a oodle" and sometimes it's "don't buy from pet stores" and sometimes it's "pet stores are great - thats why I bought a surprise puppy for the newscaster this morning" ... should make up his mind. Surely this has to be a bit of a step in the right direction though? If someone is breeding and raising 'oodles in their home well that's still a much better start to life than being in a pet shop where you have to defecate where you eat and sleep right? There is debate over the whole situation with BYB's (I certainly won't be going into it again anytime soon on these forums) - but the sale of live animals in petshops and spending all that crucial socialisation/bonding time away from people is undeniably bad. +1 At least acknowledging that there is an issue is a step in the right direction, and I agree that breeding and raising dogs in a home environment is better than in a cage in a shed, destined for a pet shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalteseLuna Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Maybe he should stop recommending people go out and buy an 'oodle' then! 2 + 2 = 4 Chris...... Exactly - it's quite odd how inconsistent his statements are sometimes. Sometimes it's "the best dog is a oodle" and sometimes it's "don't buy from pet stores" and sometimes it's "pet stores are great - thats why I bought a surprise puppy for the newscaster this morning" ... should make up his mind. Surely this has to be a bit of a step in the right direction though? If someone is breeding and raising 'oodles in their home well that's still a much better start to life than being in a pet shop where you have to defecate where you eat and sleep right? There is debate over the whole situation with BYB's (I certainly won't be going into it again anytime soon on these forums) - but the sale of live animals in petshops and spending all that crucial socialisation/bonding time away from people is undeniably bad. +1 At least acknowledging that there is an issue is a step in the right direction, and I agree that breeding and raising dogs in a home environment is better than in a cage in a shed, destined for a pet shop. I actually think that breeding of dogs needs to have some thought put in i.e. knowledge of genetics, canine structure, canine reproduction etc. A BYB is just as likely to have genetic health problems popping up imo. Just bringing pups up in a home isn't good enough either - pups need the right kind of socialization to be fostered by the breeder as it's reared. Just your average Joe letting his bitch whelp in the home and keeping them penned with little interaction is as bad as a puppy farm imo. The issue is that pet shops are now "catching up" and have started telling people "our puppies only come from registered/private breeders not puppy mills"... just "knowing" where the puppy came from isn't enough if people are hiding the true nature of the "breeder" from the naive buyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toy*dog Posted November 25, 2011 Author Share Posted November 25, 2011 (edited) The issue is that pet shops are now "catching up" and have started telling people "our puppies only come from registered/private breeders not puppy mills"... just "knowing" where the puppy came from isn't enough if people are hiding the true nature of the "breeder" from the naive buyer. I very much agree. if i was a new puppy owner/buyer these days i'd be totally confused with all the conflicting information out there on tele and on the internet. chris brown and others like him are just learning really, and are not in a position to advise the puppy buying public. All the written information that's being thrown about like from RSPCA, oscar law and govt pet information all points to buying from a "registered breeder" but as steve said these days that could mean anything. Domestic pet breeding businesses are registered, APDBA is a new registered organisation designed for a person to breed anything and be "registered". Then there's people that have applied to their local councils to be "registered" so they all need to define what they mean by buying from a "registered" breeder. They haven't really said. whether that means putting ANKC infront of registered and telling them this as i did to the head of oscar law on her info and i noticed she did change a few things after i told her some home truths. again its all about promotion and yes, i agree someone does need to have a chat with chris brown and let him know a few home truths about breeding showing pedigree dogs as i don't think he knows much at all judging from some of the statements on his show. he also is in womans weekly? with a column and about 2 years ago he said the most ridiculous thing to a new puppy owner which wouldn't've worked so i emailed him and told him so he was advising the person to get an oodle as a perfect apartment dog. so i said what about a purebred chi, pap or toy breed rather than promoting BYB and puppy farms. after that he changed his tune. went on a search recently to see if i could email him again and he has removed his email addy. might still be on that article he writes. but i decided i would write to him in his veterinary practice. these ppl need to be told i believe JMHO Edited November 25, 2011 by toy*dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blonde_Phoenix Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 I agree the term ‘registered’ needs to be clearly defined; the messages which are out there for the public are very confusing. Like most here I would define registered as ANKC registered. But how does the ANKC ensure its ‘registered’ breeders are meeting what most would consider basic health and welfare requirements? We all have our ideas on what registered breeders should be doing (though I’m sure they differ between us) but are they doing it? Does any auditing procedure exist? I think if we want to ‘sell’ the premise that ANKC registered breeders are the best choice we need to back it up with hard evidence. No ‘expert’ is going to take up our cause without a substantial amount documented facts, to defend themselves from the onslaught they will face from those with a ‘PDE’ mentality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 The whole thing has become a nightmare.The entire industry is over regulated and operates on mythology and marketing. Very little of it any more is about what is best for the dogs if it ever was. Management and husbandry is dictated by what people who have a different agenda push and none of it is based on science or reality Depending on what group you belong to you push the way you do it all as the best and only way - and more and more dogs are pushed to be treated like and act like humans. Show dogs and you are immediately considered by one group as soemoen who breeds dogs destined to suffer [PDE] or the other group is adamant that their way is the only way. Education of what is best for puppies, dogs and future families who will live with them is in the main based on crap. Spread and taken up as a method of promoting the group who pushes it. No one really knows what anyone is describing when they tag someone a puppy farmer .Some of us think thats someone who breeds dogs in substandard conditions - others think that means someone who breeds them in large numbers. Pets shops say they dont buy from puppy farmers but we dont believe them - no one really knows why we dont believe them - but its probably because we tag anyone who sells a puppy to a pet shop a puppy farmer and they see puppy farmers as people who breed dogs in substandard conditions. Best we stand back a bit and take a good look at which group is getting more complaints about the way the dogs they are breeding are suffering as they live with the families who love them. Not much point in continuing on in political correctness if the aim is supposed to be about what is really best for the dogs. You can justify anything if you want to. Animal rights has put a focus on where puppies come from and all he is saying is know where that is and be sure you dont get one bred in rotten conditions - the implication is that you have a better chance of having a healthy happy dog in its forever home - depends which way you look at it and who is pushing the barrow. PDE tell a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJean Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 (edited) The whole thing has become a nightmare.The entire industry is over regulated and operates on mythology and marketing. Very little of it any more is about what is best for the dogs if it ever was. Management and husbandry is dictated by what people who have a different agenda push and none of it is based on science or reality Depending on what group you belong to you push the way you do it all as the best and only way - and more and more dogs are pushed to be treated like and act like humans. Show dogs and you are immediately considered by one group as soemoen who breeds dogs destined to suffer [PDE] or the other group is adamant that their way is the only way. Education of what is best for puppies, dogs and future families who will live with them is in the main based on crap. Spread and taken up as a method of promoting the group who pushes it. No one really knows what anyone is describing when they tag someone a puppy farmer .Some of us think thats someone who breeds dogs in substandard conditions - others think that means someone who breeds them in large numbers. Pets shops say they dont buy from puppy farmers but we dont believe them - no one really knows why we dont believe them - but its probably because we tag anyone who sells a puppy to a pet shop a puppy farmer and they see puppy farmers as people who breed dogs in substandard conditions. Best we stand back a bit and take a good look at which group is getting more complaints about the way the dogs they are breeding are suffering as they live with the families who love them. Not much point in continuing on in political correctness if the aim is supposed to be about what is really best for the dogs. You can justify anything if you want to. Animal rights has put a focus on where puppies come from and all he is saying is know where that is and be sure you dont get one bred in rotten conditions - the implication is that you have a better chance of having a healthy happy dog in its forever home - depends which way you look at it and who is pushing the barrow. PDE tell a different story. Yes I think so. Let the experts and the righteous sort it out. Underneath the radar has been underestimated Edited November 25, 2011 by lilli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blonde_Phoenix Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 You make some great points Steve. The conversation seems too often to be dominated by personal agendas rather that the health and welfare of the dogs. Why must it be all or nothing? Why couldn't a number of organisations coexist respectfully with health and welfare at their core? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 You make some great points Steve. The conversation seems too often to be dominated by personal agendas rather that the health and welfare of the dogs. Why must it be all or nothing? Why couldn't a number of organisations coexist respectfully with health and welfare at their core? Its become about marketing. whether that is about getting more donations for a cause, a bigger grant for a study, more members,more viewers more clients money for puppies or vet fees more credibility for a traditional pastime etc Each group bags out the other in order to justify what they do.We pick and choose some studies over others to push our case rather than research objectively .We pretend the real science doesnt exist and make up our own. Lies , propoganda and sensationalism have been used to dictate public opinion for and against most groups. Laws and regs have been put in place which are not what is best for the species, or breeds or dogs. Trying to sort it all out for anyone who is prepared to see they or the group they belong to may have made mistakes,that they may be missing vital information and the end result isnt what is necessarily best for the dogs or families who live with them is a minefield . The pressure which is on to make your opinions and decisions based on the accepted status quo of the groups rather than see all sides of the issue and consider the bigger picture is enormous. throw in a fair size helping of no one really knowing what definitions we can collectively use to describe behaviour we dont agree with - [puppy farmer] and we all just go on as usual. Trying to have an open discussion is likely to see you being gagged and dubbed anti this or that ,pro this or that, inconsitent or similar - In this case we see someone who is being influenced by what info he's given just as we all are. Not much is going on in the dog world which is really whats best for the dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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