Grand Champions & (new Title) Supreme Champions

[Gayle.]

I don't think we have as many here in Vic.....they tend to be KCC Park or Bulla or regional. The regional ones might be some in the south east and some in the north/north west or west on the same weekend, but they'd be at least 6 hours drive apart.

I'm in the south east of the state and I usually have to travel to KCC Park (2 hours away) or further. We do have a few shows down this way but they generally don't double up with ones at KCC Park or Bulla.

[SparkyTansy]

I counted 50 shows in WA, but some of them may be split shows (1 champ show over 2 days).

[GRD]

Out of interest how many shows do Qld, Vic and NSW have in a year? And how many different events on a weekend?

I know Tasmania, WA, NT and SA? tend to only have one show whether it is country or metro. And in WA at least there are more weekends with only 1 (or no) shows than there are with 2 shows and we don't have any 3 show weekends.

The 2012 breakdown for the NT is:

Darwin 23 All Breeds Champ shows over 15 week ends, including 2 double headers (2 shows on 1 day)and 2 with a double header on Saturday and another Double on Sunday.

Alice Springs20 All Breeds Champ shows 3 week ends with 3 shows, 1 with 5 shows and 1 with 6

Tennant Creek2 shows 1 week end.

Graham

[capanash]

Victoria has about 160 All Breeds Champ shows scheduled for 2012. Thats a lot of shows for a small state.

[Havasneeze]

Out of interest how many shows do Qld, Vic and NSW have in a year? And how many different events on a weekend?

I know Tasmania, WA, NT and SA? tend to only have one show whether it is country or metro. And in WA at least there are more weekends with only 1 (or no) shows than there are with 2 shows and we don't have any 3 show weekends.

I just did a count (+- here and there to allow for Ag shows that aren't listed and run or those that are listed and don't run) NSW has 550 Championship shows scheduled for 2012 (including Specialties).

Bear in mind that a number of these shows are held on the NSW/Victoria border and are attended by a lot of Victorians... likewise, shows on the Qld/NSW border attract a lot of Queenslanders. Shows in Broken Hill attract South Australians and not many from farther afield in NSW. I also wouldn't be adding specialties into that number as there are a large number of specialty shows held each year by different breeds.

[yarracully]

Out of interest how many shows do Qld, Vic and NSW have in a year? And how many different events on a weekend?

I know Tasmania, WA, NT and SA? tend to only have one show whether it is country or metro. And in WA at least there are more weekends with only 1 (or no) shows than there are with 2 shows and we don't have any 3 show weekends.

I just did a count (+- here and there to allow for Ag shows that aren't listed and run or those that are listed and don't run) NSW has 550 Championship shows scheduled for 2012 (including Specialties).

In our part of NSW within 600k radius there are only 12 shows for the year and that is between end of may and end of October. Its easy to say that a state has x number of shows but where they are located needs to be taken into consideration. NSW is larger in area than the whole of England (if my memory of high school geography is right)and for some even though there are that many shows many would be too far away. AS an example to travel from western NSW to show on the East Coast of NSW is 1400k's. As far as travellinmg from Southern NSW (Albury) to Northern NSW I can't comment because I haven't done it.

So while 550 Champ shows sounds a lot in some areas of the state there really aren't that many.

[Topoftheheap]

Out of interest how many shows do Qld, Vic and NSW have in a year? And how many different events on a weekend?

I know Tasmania, WA, NT and SA? tend to only have one show whether it is country or metro. And in WA at least there are more weekends with only 1 (or no) shows than there are with 2 shows and we don't have any 3 show weekends.

I just did a count (+- here and there to allow for Ag shows that aren't listed and run or those that are listed and don't run) NSW has 550 Championship shows scheduled for 2012 (including Specialties).

In our part of NSW within 600k radius there are only 12 shows for the year and that is between end of may and end of October. Its easy to say that a state has x number of shows but where they are located needs to be taken into consideration. NSW is larger in area than the whole of England (if my memory of high school geography is right)and for some even though there are that many shows many would be too far away. AS an example to travel from western NSW to show on the East Coast of NSW is 1400k's. As far as travellinmg from Southern NSW (Albury) to Northern NSW I can't comment because I haven't done it.

So while 550 Champ shows sounds a lot in some areas of the state there really aren't that many.

Albury to the border of Queensland - the Tweed takes approximately 21 hours to drive, Im not sure on the km's but i have done it! and it is way too far to travel for a show! also yes NSW has so many shows but only the 'haves' can afford to show at each and every show in NSW. if you are taking into account the fact that we have 550 shows (including specialties) imagine the cost in just entering half of them! so 275 shows at roughly $10 a dog works out at $2750 a year. I have four show dogs so that works out at around $11,000 a year on entry fees and that's just entry fees, which we all know is not the only costs incurred when showing. and i suppose that's another point. Dog showing is becoming more and more divided between the 'haves' and the 'lesser haves'. Chasing points around the state is easy when you have the funds to do so!

[Aziah]

Out of interest how many shows do Qld, Vic and NSW have in a year? And how many different events on a weekend?

I know Tasmania, WA, NT and SA? tend to only have one show whether it is country or metro. And in WA at least there are more weekends with only 1 (or no) shows than there are with 2 shows and we don't have any 3 show weekends.

I just did a count (+- here and there to allow for Ag shows that aren't listed and run or those that are listed and don't run) NSW has 550 Championship shows scheduled for 2012 (including Specialties).

In our part of NSW within 600k radius there are only 12 shows for the year and that is between end of may and end of October. Its easy to say that a state has x number of shows but where they are located needs to be taken into consideration. NSW is larger in area than the whole of England (if my memory of high school geography is right)and for some even though there are that many shows many would be too far away. AS an example to travel from western NSW to show on the East Coast of NSW is 1400k's. As far as travellinmg from Southern NSW (Albury) to Northern NSW I can't comment because I haven't done it.

So while 550 Champ shows sounds a lot in some areas of the state there really aren't that many.

I was simply answering the question (ie. how many shows does NSW hold each year)...

FYI it's about 5.5 hours from Albury to Sydney and about9 hours to Northern NSW from Sydney.

[yarracully]

Out of interest how many shows do Qld, Vic and NSW have in a year? And how many different events on a weekend?

I know Tasmania, WA, NT and SA? tend to only have one show whether it is country or metro. And in WA at least there are more weekends with only 1 (or no) shows than there are with 2 shows and we don't have any 3 show weekends.

I just did a count (+- here and there to allow for Ag shows that aren't listed and run or those that are listed and don't run) NSW has 550 Championship shows scheduled for 2012 (including Specialties).

In our part of NSW within 600k radius there are only 12 shows for the year and that is between end of may and end of October. Its easy to say that a state has x number of shows but where they are located needs to be taken into consideration. NSW is larger in area than the whole of England (if my memory of high school geography is right)and for some even though there are that many shows many would be too far away. AS an example to travel from western NSW to show on the East Coast of NSW is 1400k's. As far as travellinmg from Southern NSW (Albury) to Northern NSW I can't comment because I haven't done it.

So while 550 Champ shows sounds a lot in some areas of the state there really aren't that many.

I was simply answering the question (ie. how many shows does NSW hold each year)...

FYI it's about 5.5 hours from Albury to Sydney and about9 hours to Northern NSW from Sydney.

Thanks Aziah for the info on North to south. As I posted earlier I haven't travelled it and don't plan too. As for the East to west I have done it and don't plan to again.

I realise you were only answering the question but I though a bit of perspective needed to be put in in regards to distance etc. The number of shows does seem a lot but when you take in the area its not a big average. Admittedly some areas are probably a bit saturated where as other areas shows are a bit light on. Much of this is linked to the population spread within the state.

[Aziah]

Out of interest how many shows do Qld, Vic and NSW have in a year? And how many different events on a weekend?

I know Tasmania, WA, NT and SA? tend to only have one show whether it is country or metro. And in WA at least there are more weekends with only 1 (or no) shows than there are with 2 shows and we don't have any 3 show weekends.

I just did a count (+- here and there to allow for Ag shows that aren't listed and run or those that are listed and don't run) NSW has 550 Championship shows scheduled for 2012 (including Specialties).

In our part of NSW within 600k radius there are only 12 shows for the year and that is between end of may and end of October. Its easy to say that a state has x number of shows but where they are located needs to be taken into consideration. NSW is larger in area than the whole of England (if my memory of high school geography is right)and for some even though there are that many shows many would be too far away. AS an example to travel from western NSW to show on the East Coast of NSW is 1400k's. As far as travellinmg from Southern NSW (Albury) to Northern NSW I can't comment because I haven't done it.

So while 550 Champ shows sounds a lot in some areas of the state there really aren't that many.

I was simply answering the question (ie. how many shows does NSW hold each year)...

FYI it's about 5.5 hours from Albury to Sydney and about9 hours to Northern NSW from Sydney.

Thanks Aziah for the info on North to south. As I posted earlier I haven't travelled it and don't plan too. As for the East to west I have done it and don't plan to again.

I realise you were only answering the question but I though a bit of perspective needed to be put in in regards to distance etc. The number of shows does seem a lot but when you take in the area its not a big average. Admittedly some areas are probably a bit saturated where as other areas shows are a bit light on. Much of this is linked to the population spread within the state.

I agree and I I'd also like to see many of the summer shows moved into the winter months (when the show scene quietens a little).

[mirawee]

In our part of NSW within 600k radius there are only 12 shows for the year and that is between end of may and end of October. Its easy to say that a state has x number of shows but where they are located needs to be taken into consideration. NSW is larger in area than the whole of England (if my memory of high school geography is right)and for some even though there are that many shows many would be too far away. AS an example to travel from western NSW to show on the East Coast of NSW is 1400k's. As far as travellinmg from Southern NSW (Albury) to Northern NSW I can't comment because I haven't done it.

So while 550 Champ shows sounds a lot in some areas of the state there really aren't that many.

Sorry I find this post very condescending. I live in WA. WA is a LOT bigger than NSW, I was asking for the whole state as over here you do not get any country shows on the same weekend as Perth metro shows. So yes I am interested in all of NSW as you have that option ;) Actually you have the option of crossing the border a bit easier than us too :D

A lot of people on here are saying that you shouldn't be able to get a Championship title until you get a 25 point CC (which to make it fair should be a 25 point BIG so that the dog breeds with less than 20 entered who have to win BIG beating those breeds with more than 20 entered are on the same playing field ;) ). To do that at breed level I have to travel around 3,500km. So giving me a lesson on how big NSW is in comparison to England is a tad harsh! How many times does NSW fit into WA?

Edited November 25, 2011 by mirawee

[SparkyTansy]

Sometimes i wonder if WA is a bit behind the times, though. Often, we have shows over two days which could be done in a day. We don't have the numbers anymore which makes the rule about judges judging a certain number of dogs a day valid. I know that doing shows is rediculous amounts of work for committees, especially secretaries, but i do wonder if it is necessary to split shows any more. Our shows can often be done and dusted by 12pm, split or not. in winter, that can open up AM/PM shows, in Summer, two shows in a weekend instead of 1. I wonder sometimes if our numbers would boost, if there were two or three shows in a weekend we could attend... because we are already locking ourselves out for two days "just incase" we make it through the following day if it's a split show.

I miss the days where you could relax and spend time with friends for the whole day of a show, because the numbers were big enough you weren't unpacking, running into and out of the ring, and packing up within three hours of getting there, and I've only been showing for 8 years.

[Jumabaar]

In our part of NSW within 600k radius there are only 12 shows for the year and that is between end of may and end of October. Its easy to say that a state has x number of shows but where they are located needs to be taken into consideration. NSW is larger in area than the whole of England (if my memory of high school geography is right)and for some even though there are that many shows many would be too far away. AS an example to travel from western NSW to show on the East Coast of NSW is 1400k's. As far as travellinmg from Southern NSW (Albury) to Northern NSW I can't comment because I haven't done it.

So while 550 Champ shows sounds a lot in some areas of the state there really aren't that many.

Sorry I find this post very condescending. I live in WA. WA is a LOT bigger than NSW, I was asking for the whole state as over here you do not get any country shows on the same weekend as Perth metro shows. So yes I am interested in all of NSW as you have that option ;) Actually you have the option of crossing the border a bit easier than us too :D

A lot of people on here are saying that you shouldn't be able to get a Championship title until you get a 25 point CC (which to make it fair should be a 25 point BIG so that the dog breeds with less than 20 entered who have to win BIG beating those breeds with more than 20 entered are on the same playing field ;) ). To do that at breed level I have to travel around 3,500km. So giving me a lesson on how big NSW is in comparison to England is a tad harsh! How many times does NSW fit into WA?

LOL. Not defending but I do wonder how many of that number are specialties?? Which I think would drop the numbers down a little.

I like the points the way they are. If anything I would like more titles to encourage judges to not give out cc points that would get more dogs into the ring i.e. if you don't get cc points you can get some other achievement. It would take away some of the stigma of not getting your cc points, help the judges who are not confident enough to non-award a dog with a clear fault etc and increase the number of participants in the ring.

(For me to seek regular competition in my breed I would have to travel to the country instead of doing local shows- so I am afraid I will always have the odd petrol champ because I can't actually afford the petrol to chase down the competition AND I think they deserve their CH even if they never win a group because 17 people have looked at my dog and assessed it worthy to become a champion so I am going to take their word for it)

Edited November 25, 2011 by Jumabaar

[sobriquet218]

A retrograde step IMO. Really disappointing.

The possibility is being a made up "Champions" in 17 shows, grandies in 167 without actually having been placed before another exhibit?

Divided by 2 or 3 shows a week & it really show how ridiculous the situation is.

6 weeks for champ, just over a year for grand without opposition?

Not much credibility there.

Any wonder overseas associations regard our awards with suspicion.

So with a breed like mine (Basset Fauve De Bretagne) where there are currently less than 10 being shown reasonably regularly between Townsville and Melbourne our challenges shouldn't count UNTIL we compete against others of our breed? I've travelled for competition and LOVE competition (even when my girls lose) but at the moment unless I travel the only competition my girls get is each other. ETA or should they count only when they also win a class in group? Or only when they win group? There IS no perfect answer to any of these problems. No matter which way the ANKC goes people are going to be pissed off.

IMO, The requirements apparently just dumped for the awarding of the GCh title were a breath of fresh air.

The requirements for Ch awards should have been a modification of that.

Two 25 point challenges to be gained before Qualifying for the title of Aust Ch for e.g.

Your challenge points would still count but being titled would require more credibility.

It is probably harder for a ''popular'' breed to be titled due to the amount of competition.

The rewards are greater for sure, but much harder to come by.

Consider a previous topic where it is possible for a r/u BIS to finish in front of a 1000 dogs for no reward & yet some go home with 6 points just for being there?

Ridiculous.

Just my opinion.

2 x 25 point challenges for a breed to become a champion? some breeds (even the ones with higher numbers) can't achieve a 25 pointer. Be realistic, the system national and needs to suit as many states as possible...

imo reverting back to the old grand system makes no sense... those who gained the grand with the harder requirements now have nothing to show for it.

I agree with the system they have just denigrated. eg 4 x 25 pointers for the Grand.

That should have stayed the way it was, and just added the Supreme Champion.

I've already attained the 4x BIG/BISS so now I only need more points for my grand - now it's not going to have as much achievement as it would have before October!

Maybe I'll just try harder and aim for the Supreme!! And yes having a popular breed I'm always up against the Faces and their cronies !

[sobriquet218]

BUT the BISS didn't count towards her GR CH under the old rules, so how is that fair ?

Probably because a BISS is really a BOB, & therefore fell under the 25 point requirement rule.

Cant you have multiple breed specialties? These wouldn't have been a BOB, they would have beaten other (albeit) related breeds....

Yes you can for example,

Collie & Shetland Sheepdog Champ Show,

comprising Bearded Collie, Border Collie, Collie Rough, Collie Smooth and Shetland Sheepdogs. 5 breeds.

And when an overseas Judge of 30+ years of experience world wide in those breeds awards a Best in Show,

do people consider a Best in Show at one of these? BISS or BIS?? Dog gained 25 points because of 100 entries

[sobriquet218]

Edited November 25, 2011 by sobriquet218

[mirawee]

LOL. Not defending but I do wonder how many of that number are specialties?? Which I think would drop the numbers down a little.

I wouldn't mind knowing the number without specialties as well Even assuming half are not all breeds though that is still 4x the number of shows that WA get :D

ST, I definitely agree that normal shows split over should be dropped in WA! There was quite a bit of discussion on that earlier in the year on FB

[Havasneeze]

LOL. Not defending but I do wonder how many of that number are specialties?? Which I think would drop the numbers down a little.

I wouldn't mind knowing the number without specialties as well Even assuming half are not all breeds though that is still 4x the number of shows that WA get :D

ST, I definitely agree that normal shows split over should be dropped in WA! There was quite a bit of discussion on that earlier in the year on FB

Yes, there have been some pretty smart people putting shows together in NSW. As an example, when there are shows in Newcastle, there are quite often 2 on the same day.... so makes it worthwhile to travel 2 hours (for me), share a hotel room and do 4 shows in 3 days or sometimes even 6 shows in 3 days. Another example is the Condo circuit (or western circuit) where there are 20 shows in 30 days or something like that, not sure of the exact number. A smart bunch of people got their heads together and came up with an idea which not only attracts good numbers to their shows but also helps the economy in small country towns that welcome (and look forward to) the circuit exhibitors each year.

[Joan of Arc]

LOL. Not defending but I do wonder how many of that number are specialties?? Which I think would drop the numbers down a little.

I wouldn't mind knowing the number without specialties as well Even assuming half are not all breeds though that is still 4x the number of shows that WA get :D

ST, I definitely agree that normal shows split over should be dropped in WA! There was quite a bit of discussion on that earlier in the year on FB

Yes, there have been some pretty smart people putting shows together in NSW. As an example, when there are shows in Newcastle, there are quite often 2 on the same day.... so makes it worthwhile to travel 2 hours (for me), share a hotel room and do 4 shows in 3 days or sometimes even 6 shows in 3 days. Another example is the Condo circuit (or western circuit) where there are 20 shows in 30 days or something like that, not sure of the exact number. A smart bunch of people got their heads together and came up with an idea which not only attracts good numbers to their shows but also helps the economy in small country towns that welcome (and look forward to) the circuit exhibitors each year.

Exactly..... even our local rural shows.. several of the show committees have pooled thier resources, and joined with other clubs to make them a two day event. Certainly builds the entry up and it makes it worth the travel. For us, here in Albury we either have to travel for 3 hours to Melb or 3 hours anywhere else... very few shows at local level.... 3 single Ag Shows with an hour and then after that everything is 2 - 3 hours or more...

[Dogsfevr]

I counted 50 shows in WA, but some of them may be split shows (1 champ show over 2 days).

And 14 of those are country