Vickie Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Feel free to elaborate on your answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pie Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I voted sometimes - I would like it to be never - I intend to keep running but sometimes I forget With Trixie in particular I know that if she hasn't taken a jump it's because of something I have/haven't done (not supporting her properly, didn't tell her to take it when I should've, pulled her off it by turning etc) she's doing what I'm telling her to do so as far as I'm concerned I am going to keep going because I don't want her to lose her confidence in me. Sometimes I find myself taking her back ad I kick myself mentally. With Kyzer I always took him back because I thought that was the thing to do and I think that has contributed to our tumultuous relationship! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agility Dogs Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 If I think the dog 'should' have taken the jump then I'll take them as long as I can do the run into the jump again. In ADAA trials you can't repeat a part of the course that you've already done or you will be dismissed (as opposed to eliminated). If it is just going back and putting them over the one jump in isolation then I don't see much point. If I think they 'missed' the jump because I've done something wrong then I'll let them keep running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 (edited) 9 times out of 10 I will just keep running. They either missed it because I gave them a wrong signal, or they just plain didn't see it. Either way you look at it, there is absolutely no point in going back (besides being DQ'd, but who cares between an NQ or DQ personally?) so just keep running, dammit!!! Now I need to tell that 1 time out of 10 me to do that.... Edited November 21, 2011 by RubyStar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J... Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 (edited) If I've built sufficient value in taking a jump then they should take what I point them at. If they don't, then there is a reason why they haven't taken the jump - highly likely my handling. So no I don't make them go back - there's no point. Edited November 21, 2011 by Jess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirawee Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Having dogs that aren't that motivated by agility I don't generally stop and go back as that is very demotivating for them. And as said if the dog misses a jump that is usually either my handling or my training so it is something that needs to be worked on away from that course. At training if it is a sequence that they stuf up then I redo the sequence (and fix my handling ) With the more motivated dogs who sometime decide to make their own course up I stop, get the dog back with me and focussed and then continue although not necessarily at the first jump they missed. In most cases they are well and truly DQed by then anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casima Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 In a trial I usually don't, as I don't think the dog learns anything from this and can be very demotivating for some dogs as well, and almost always it is caused by handler error or not enough value for the jump both of which needs to be taken back to training, so if my dog does miss an obstical we just keep running and try to complete a close aproximation of the course. There are however 3 instances where I will go back and redo the jump. 1) If my dog misses the last jump or homerun in a trial as a shortcut to going to get their reward faster, I have had 2/3 dogs try this "short cut to the end" thing on me at some point, and I feel bringing them back and insisting they finish the course does teach them that they will get their reward on my terms, not theirs. 2) In an RQH or silimilar situation where it is important that we don't DQ in an experienced dog only. 3) In training, if we miss a jump, I will try to loop the dog back around (over obsticals if possible) without stopping the dog to try the same approach and handle it more clearly and reward the dog for making the correct decision the second time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Similarly to Casima, The only time in a trial I will bring the dog back is if the dog misses the last jump or homerun as a shortcut (has happened before ) In training, if it is something like a serpentine or threadle, I will redo the handling for the whole thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 (edited) Seeing as it's always my fault, in training I will sometimes redo the jump but ONLY after at least giving a verbal marker (and preferably a food reward from my pocket) for doing exactly what I told him initially. I make a HUGE deal about how wonderful he is and keep my body language really positive - no dropped shoulders but keep engaging with him. In a trial I generally keep running unless the jump is pivotal for doing the next sequence. Again I mark with a "yes!" and lots of "good boys" which keeps Zig's motivation high. Last week at training we had a very tough layered turn with tempting off course jumps. I pulled Zig off too early and he did exactly as I'd asked - instead of being disappointed I whooped like an idiot and said to the instructor "how brilliant was that!!!" as I shovelled treats down Zig's throat She laughed in understanding and said "yep, I'd take that too" ;) ETA: Em is only a baby so we are just starting sequences. If she misses something I keep it light, fix my body language, make it easier, try it again and HUGE celebration when she gets it. I often say something silly when the dogs miss something eg "oh you poor dog with such a silly Mama" which ensures I keep the mood light and remember who's fault it is. Edited November 21, 2011 by The Spotted Devil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J... Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 TSD - forgot to mention screw up cookies. I do the same thing - they are known by a less PC term here though. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Do you think if I eat a "screw up cookie" (i.e. 4 legs, raw chicken mince) every time I stuff up I'll stop making mistakes perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tay. Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 I used to take her back 99% of the time but that percentage is slowly going down. If it was my fault, I'll usually keep going but taking her back doesn't bother her at all. She doesn't stress out by it, so that's not a problem. Like AD said, if I think she should have run the part she missed, I'll go back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 This morning I stuffed up and said "Tunnel" when there was a jump first, and dog did the jump then the tunnel - erm good dog, do as I mean not as I say... If we miss a jump - we need more practice with our signalling - so I do go back and do it again, and sometimes she gets very barky/frustrated but that's ok, ie part of learning to be persistant. But I will have one more go and if it's not happening, I usually leave the course walking, so the next person can have their go without having to wait ages for us to get our act together. If there isn't a next person, I might work one or two jumps with the dog just for practice and I try to make it fun and rewarding for her. What else happenned this morning I was trying to practice changing sides or crosses and the second one where I sent her over the jump and ran to the other side behind her, wanting her to turn... I think I went too early cos she turned on the jump and knocked the bar off. That's one thing I never do - I never tell her off for knocking a bar or missing a colour, or stuffing a weave run or whatever. It's always my fault - something I need to fix, and there's never any point in yelling at her. I don't get why some people do that. Current un fave is a class mate who yells at his dog for barking. I understand his frustration but how come he doesn't understand that to his dog - him yelling sounds like joining in? Though I can tell she's not happy about it - she barks for excitement and he barks because he's angry or frustrated. My dog barks for both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAX Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 (edited) I want my dog to have fun, If it missed a jump, I must have handled it wrong or not trained it right......of course. I feel bad answering as agility is not my thing but it is all behaviour training. Sorry if this is no help. Edited November 24, 2011 by PAX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 PAX We'll get you into agility yet Prix would certainly give us other 600 dogs a run for our money! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chezy Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 no because it is bad handling and the dog did what I asked Chopper having said that in training my new girl she gets excited and misses, so yes i do take her back , needed to answers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaCharlie Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 I voted never the other day but have been thinking about it ever since and yes there are times that I will get my dog to do a jump it missed although it is very rare. If I am running a normal, straight forward course then I will never bring my dog back to redo a jump... i put that down to handler error. If I brought them back Charlie would start to shut down and Delta would probably bite me If it is an RQH run or something similar where it makes a difference if you receive a fault as opposed to a DQ then yes I would probably find myself redoing that jump with Delta, i still don't with Charlie. If it is a game, ie missed a jump in a gamble I will send them back out to it, missed something in snooker or pairs I go back to it. So it would appear that even though I say a missed jump in any circumstance is my fault and the dog shouldn't have to try again, if I have a Q riding on it (or RQH points etc) then I will go against what I personally believe is the best option and redo the jump Time to have a think about my priorities... The only time I have ever made a conscious effort to bring Delta back was when she went through a period of "if I miss the jump mum won't make me do it again so I can get to the tunnel/dogwalk/aframe faster without those pesky jumps in the way". It was getting to the point of being ridiculous so I started bringing her back and making her actually take the jumps in front of her. Only took a few times for her to stop missing jumps and she hasn't really tried it with me since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 But if you miss a jump is that a DQ/NQ anyway? I though you needed to go completely clear to get a Q? I was always told to take the dog back and make it redo the jump, but from now on I won't, I can see it is quite demotivating for my dog and due to my mistake anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 But if you miss a jump is that a DQ/NQ anyway? I though you needed to go completely clear to get a Q? I was always told to take the dog back and make it redo the jump, but from now on I won't, I can see it is quite demotivating for my dog and due to my mistake anyway. From my understanding - if you miss a jump, it is a DQ because you went off course. If you miss a jump and go back and redo it (and the dog hasn't taken another jump or obstacle instead causing it to DQ by going off course) then if you go back and do it it is a refusal/fault and you end up with a NQ. Because I don't have anything riding on it, I don't care if I DQ or NQ, to me it isn't a Q! So I will try to do whatever will keep my dog's motivation up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaCharlie Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 There are no refusals in games so if you miss the jump and go back and do it correctly nothing happens, you can still Q. In the RQH points are awarded to the first 40 dogs. All the clears, followed by the dogs with 1 fault, then 2 faults, etc. If you DQ then you can't score any points towards the cumulative total at the end of the year. So a refusal for going past the jump which is then corrected will only give you 1 fault and therefore you would still potentially end up with points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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