Advice / Thoughts Appreciated

[kirsty79]

I will try to keep this as brief as possible but it’s a slightly complicated situation. I haven’t posted here in a long time, since May, when I owned two beautiful dogs, Fred the basset and Jessie a scotch collie X, both from shelters. At the time I separated from my husband (my choice), he refused to give the dogs up point blank. We ended up living 1 hours drive from each other but every 4 weeks I did the trip and went and visited Fred and Jess, I didn’t want them to forget me and I wanted to make sure they were safe and he was caring for them. Just recently I’ve had surgery and not be able to go and see them for 6 weeks, then last week I got a call from the Ex saying Jessie had stopped eating and was deteriorating quickly (she is 13 ½ ). I left work early and rushed there to see her. She had lost a lot of weight and would stand at the back door looking inside instead of taking the one step up and barging past everyone like she used to. She couldn’t do the step.. She had a episode of vestibular syndrome earlier on in the year and has never 100% recovered, always been a bit wobbly on the old back legs but never this bad. The Ex then proceeds to tell me he thinks it is her time and we should arrange for her to be put down. I asked when she last went to the vets and he said almost 4 months ago. Whilst I was sitting there I also noticed she was weeing excessively, he hadn’t mentioned this either. Since I left he took them off their barf diet (is feeding them pedigree because he says he can’t afford anything else), stopped using Jessie’s joint guard, not giving them their dose of advocate and apparently Jess had some bad reaction to Metacam but he didn’t bother to do anything else to treat her arthritis. So, at 13 ½ will a multitude of problems he wasn’t giving her any medication, supplements, or feeding her decent food.

I asked him if I paid would he please take her to our usual vets and get her checked over, which he did. They came back with:

She is completely deaf

She has cataracts.

She has dental disease but no infected or broken teeth.

Muscle wastage in hind legs

Panting heavily, wheezy rasps ,maybe fluid on the lungs

Arthritis effecting both fore and hind legs

Weight loss and decreased appetite

Increase thirst and urination – possible underlying endocrine / hormonal disease and / or kidney failure.

So, the Ex rang and he seemed set on having her put to sleep. I said I wanted her to stay with me for a little bit so I could try a few things and see for myself.

I got her to my house yesterday and these are my observations:

She can’t stand from a lying position without assistance.

Her appetite seems good – she demolished some chicken necks and beef steak this morning.

She is drinking lots and weeing huge amounts – little small stops several times, eg. 3 times in 5 minutes.

She seems reluctant to lie down, obviously because of her difficulty in getting back up, so she paces alot.

Most concerning is when she has been lying down if we go to lift her back legs to help her up she completely loses bladder control, she can’t make it outside in time no matter how close. During the night she weed on her bed despite us getting up at 3am to see if she wanted to go out.

At about 2am she was rasping loudly, like she was struggling to breath.

My gut is saying she isn’t happy but I honestly don’t know what to do. I have her booked into another vets near where I live for me to speak to someone directly about their thoughts on Jessie’s quality of life.

How do you tell when enough is enough? How far do you go with appointments and trying medication / treatments (funds are limited for me, we got her when she was 11 and therefore couldn’t be insured, and I know the Ex won’t contribute)?

I can’t even think about saying goodbye to her without crying but I want to do what’s best for her.

Can someone offer some advice or have been through a similar experience?

Edited November 21, 2011 by kirsty79

[RiverStar-Aura]

I really feel for you and the tough position you're in -- especially that you've had to leave your babies behind. That must've been so hard on you (and them!).

There's no right or wrong answer to help you here but the only people who can make the right decisions are you and your ex. I'd definitely wait until you have her checked over by the vet of your choice but ask for a kidney function test because if there's excessive thirst, loss of weight and appetite, then you could be looking at kidney failure. If it is, then unfortunately there's not a lot to be done -- you can try dialysis but then you have to weigh up everything else.

She might also have stomach cramps, which prevent her from lying down.

The most important advice I can give you though is to listen to your heart.

Good luck with her other vet appointment and please let us know how she goes.

[Rysup]

My 14 1/2 year old is in a similar place. But just when I think it IS her time, the very next morning she bounds out of bed like there is no tomorrow. So she has her up days and her down days. There will come a time, when the up days stop. When that happens, then I will know.

My almost 16 year old fellow though, is going great guns. He is happy to potter around, sleep and eat, but if you dare disturb his routine, he will complain loudly. He cannot see much, is going deaf, but he has the bladder of an elephant, and its strong as an ox. God bless him.

[lovemymutts]

My old boy who has now passed (January) had a turn & for 6 months after things went downhill pretty quickly. He had arthrtitis, not as bad as what your girl has but still not very good. Was panting excessively, struggling to breathe & after vet appts was told he had a heart murmur & fluid on the lungs so was given meds but that only worked for a short time (had to be done twice daily) & I didn't want my dog on meds for an extended period anyway. He lost bladder function, not completely but still he would be very unhappy when this happened. I knew when it was time & I didn't want him to suffer anymore. It was the hardest thing I have ever had to do but I owed it to him & I went in with him & he fell asleep in my arms, it was very peaceful.

I am not going to tell you what to do & in the end it is your decision. Do what you feel is best for your dog

[Pretty Miss Emma]

You know the answer, just listen to your heart.

As I said in another thread like this, the time is right when you've made the decision. So there's no defined right or wrong time (well most of the time!).

What led me to making the decision to have Em PTS in July was that she had kidney failure, there was no course of treatment that would allow her to be with me (she could have been treated in hospital, but she couldn't have been at home with me) and there was no possibility if recovery. I always promised her I wouldn't let her suffer, so for me the situation at the time met the criteria I'd set myself. Most heartbreaking moment of my life so far I think, but I didn't see myself as having other choices.

Take her to see your vet, speak with your vet. Your dog will let you know when the time comes.

[kirsty79]

Thank you so much for your thoughts and advice.

We went to the vets last night and were there for over an hour.

The vet has taken some blood and will be running tests to check her kidneys - will have the results late today or tomorrow morning.

The vet agreed to try some cartrophen injections as the ex had left Jess with nothing to treat her arthritis for the past 5 months and she was clearly in alot of discomfort but when they went to do a urine test (jessie lost bladder control whilst in there and the vet did like a dive with a stick to catch some!) they discovered blood and alot of protein. Apparently cartrophen can cause up to an additional 30% bleeding if already doing so?, therefore we couldn't do the injection until we get to the bottom of the blood in her urine. I left with a little pot and spent most of the evening following Jessie around the garden, think she thought I was insane stalking her with this little pot! Lol. They did give us some pain relief for her legs anyway so at least thats something.

The vet was also extremely concerned about Jessie's rasping and sounding like there is fluid on her lungs but X-rays will be required for that so we are waiting first on the kidney results and I guess will make a decision from there.

Will post again when I get results.

[dianed]

At least you are getting her seen too and hopefully the blood tests will give you some insight. In july my old girl went down hill,I was sure she would make her 14th birthday in Oct.She was doing so well, her last days came suddenly. She refused to eat in the end so I had no choice.Blood test showed no cancer, liver & kidneys both ok. However we took her off her arthritis pills thinking they made her sick and she lost her mobility. You would be surprised how much difference those pills made and she only had them every other day.. Good luck, I,ll be thinking positive thoughts for you and Jessie.

[kirsty79]

Well, it's not good news. Jessie has chronic kidney failure, she has lost about 75% use of them and is also suffering a small amount fo internal bleeding from them.

Absolutely devastated and really not coping at all. She has been up and down the past couple of days. Yesterday morning she was running up and down the garden terrorising next doors dog by woofing at them. Then last night she wouldn't touch her dinner and couldn't stand by herself.

The vet said her kidneys aren't causing her pain as such, just leaving her feeling ill and nauseous.

So, have made the decision to let her go, I need to organise but each time I go to call the vet I end up crying and unable to talk.

I was thinking of asking the vet to come out to my house and have it done at home. She has only just arrived there with me but I know how much she hates the vets. And then I just don't know what to do. wWuld have liked her to be buried in the garden, but the thought of her after it's happened is traumatising.

I just don't know how I can cope with this.

[megan_]

kirsty79 - I am so sorry that you have to go through this. I know alot of people say "listen to your heart" but my heart always wants to hang on. So I suggest listening to your head too and thinking about what is best for Jessie. If you can't call the vets, maybe the ex can?

It is easy for me to say though as my dogs are both young and, fingers crossed, those decisions are 10+ years away. My plan - which may change when they get older - is to give them the gift of a peaceful end, in my home. I'd rather they go a day too soon (when they aren't in pain) than leave it a day too late. I'll then get them cremated and spread the ashes at their favourite spots.

[Mum to Emma]

IMO if she is spending more time in distress/discomfort than she is happy and comfortable and there is no possibility of that changing, then I would let her go.

Ask yourself, why are you keeping her alive. For your benefit or for hers? I don't mean that unkindly, but remember that she doesn't understand her own mortality (animals are lucky that way!). She will not go in fear. But if you leave it too long, her last days could be spent in pain and distress. And I'm sure you don't want that.

I've made the mistake of letting a pet go on too long (in this case a cat). And vow I will never do that again.

[RiverStar-Aura]

I am so sorry about the bad new kirsty79.

The best thing you can do for her is to be there and let her know how much you love her (which I'm sure she already knows!).

Perhaps you might like to consider a "Talking Stone" plaque to place in your garden. I think they're lovely sentiments and helped me through the grieving process.

[kirsty79]

Hi All,

Just wanted to say thank you for all your thoughts and caring words. There were some really important things various people said which comforted me in making such a hard decision.

I gave Jessie her wings on Monday afternoon.

I know she is no longer in pain, and she really did deteriorate over her last couple of days with us. It feels like someone has taken a piece of my heart and it will never be replaced

[lovemymutts]

Hi All,

Just wanted to say thank you for all your thoughts and caring words. There were some really important things various people said which comforted me in making such a hard decision.

I gave Jessie her wings on Monday afternoon.

I know she is no longer in pain, and she really did deteriorate over her last couple of days with us. It feels like someone has taken a piece of my heart and it will never be replaced

I am so sorry for your loss I know that feeling well

You did what you felt was best for Jessie, and she is at peace now

[White Shepherd mom]

I just saw this thread and wanted to send you my sympathies and tell you that you did the right thing by taking your girl from your ex at the end. At least she crossed the Bridge with the person who would do anything for her. I'm glad she got to spend her last days with you.

Sending hugs your way.

Rest in Peace Jessie.