Bobby_The_Samoyed Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 (edited) Hey everyone, this is not to provoke any owner/breeder/handler, I would just like to get everyone's opinions on whether or not they believe the term 'high drive' is used in some instances where people do not truly believe what it means, replacing terms such as playful and active with high drive? Some people seem to use it describe a better litter of pups they are trying to sell(not reliable responsible breeders)and began using the word as a favourable description? I have realised that alot of pups/dogs end up in pounds due to their intense drive and dont believe that SOME people originally purchasing these dogs really know what they are getting themselves into. What does everyone think about this issue? Edited November 18, 2011 by Bobby_The_Samoyed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCoat Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Hey everyone, this is not to provoke any owner/breeder/handler, I would just like to get everyone's opinions on whether or not they believe the term 'high drive' is used in some instances where people do not truly believe what it means? Some people seem to use it describe a better litter of pups they are trying to sell? I have realised that alot of pups/dogs end up in pounds due to their intense drive and dont believe that SOME people purchasing these dogs really know what they are getting themselves into. What does everyone think about this issue? I agree that a lot of people buying high drive dogs are unaware of what is required to own them without the dog becoming a major nuisence in the home and they surrender them because they can no longer handle or put up with their intensity or misbehaviour. High drive dogs are easy to train and produce fantastic obedience in the finished product, but you have to be committed to train and exercise them above all else where a low drive innactive dog is often better suited to some people's lifestyle. People who like a low drive dog that is happy to lounge around have a bit of an odd play with an occassional walk would be driven bonkers with a high drive dog and should never have one IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverStar-Aura Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 I agree that a lot of people buying high drive dogs are unaware of what is required to own them without the dog becoming a major nuisence in the home and they surrender them because they can no longer handle or put up with their intensity or misbehaviour.High drive dogs are easy to train and produce fantastic obedience in the finished product, but you have to be committed to train and exercise them above all else where a low drive innactive dog is often better suited to some people's lifestyle. People who like a low drive dog that is happy to lounge around have a bit of an odd play with an occassional walk would be driven bonkers with a high drive dog and should never have one IMHO. I totally agree with you here. Before I knew anything about puppy farms etc I made an impulse buy at a pet shop and ended up coming home with a beagle cross JRT -- two breeds I knew absolutely nothing about. When I bought Zeus I was after a dog I could take out walking/jogging and here was this cute, floppy-eared puppy sitting all alone in a glass box. He came home with me two days later. Breed-wise he was a mistake -- he's a very high drive dog with masses of energy, and as I soon found out, he was going to be a handful and a half. His beagle half puts him on the scent of anything smelly within a 20,000 kilometre radius and his hyper JRT half means he go, go, goes non-stop. He's actually taken on a greyhound that frequents the local off-leash park and has managed to out-hoon it. On the flip-side, I'm not a person who abandons animals (I honestly don't know how anyone can do it) and I've worked with him. He's been to extensive obedience training and while he's not perfect, we're getting there. He's by far the quickest learner I've ever seen and he can learn new tricks within a couple of days -- he usually has the gist of the trick within 5 minutes and can perform it on command about 2 days later. I don't want to think about what happened to his litter mates because I learned the hard way what a handful this cross breed is and I honestly don't think that the people buying them would know what to expect either. A beagle cross JRT (I've nicknamed them "Brussells") is not a breed for the quiet types and I wouldn't be surprised if his siblings were surrendered because of their hyperactivity. And I'm still trying to work out the numpty who decided it would be fantastic to mix these two breeds together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 No. Of course there are degrees of drive and lots of variation. But in general, I think the term high-drive, used to explain an inherent tendency to energetic and, without proper training and exercise, excessive behaviour, greatly helps the discussion about dogs, training, and behaviour. I hope people can be educated to look out for high drive in selecting a puppy . . . and only take a pup who is likely to have it if they want to deal with the consequences of high-drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby_The_Samoyed Posted November 18, 2011 Author Share Posted November 18, 2011 (edited) Sandgrubber, the issue is that High Drive, is a term used differently by different people to describe different things. Someone may describe as an energetic terrier that runs around 10 hours a day as High Drive. While someone else will refer to the dedicated working line malinois as high drive. That is why im trying to see what everyone regards as a high drive dog, making it easier to point out specific points that people use in common and also uncommon points. At the end of the day, it will help people differentiate the uses of this term. . Edited November 18, 2011 by Bobby_The_Samoyed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blonde_Phoenix Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Short answer yes! Long answer....... What exactly is drive? My sister described her dog as ‘high drive’ and professional trainers have agreed, mine and my partners (uneducated) opinion is she is needy and hard to control. I should be careful my sister is active on the forum I might tear me apart LOL ;) (we love your girl an will puppy sit anytime). Our boy is way more laid back in general but when it’s go time he is unstoppable. Super willing to learn and with enthusiasm which most dogs would find hard to match. Can drive be switched on and off in the dog world? I guess it depends on the breed expectation and the definition of drive. Can a young puppy really be described as “high dive”? I don’t think so, lets face it all pups are a bit crazy. Older dogs described that way, well without professional opinion I’d guess the majority are just poorly trained/socialised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby_The_Samoyed Posted November 18, 2011 Author Share Posted November 18, 2011 (edited) Short answer yes! Long answer....... What exactly is drive? My sister described her dog as ‘high drive’ and professional trainers have agreed, mine and my partners (uneducated) opinion is she is needy and hard to control. I should be careful my sister is active on the forum I might tear me apart LOL ;) (we love your girl an will puppy sit anytime). Our boy is way more laid back in general but when it’s go time he is unstoppable. Super willing to learn and with enthusiasm which most dogs would find hard to match. Can drive be switched on and off in the dog world? I guess it depends on the breed expectation and the definition of drive. Can a young puppy really be described as “high dive”? I don’t think so, lets face it all pups are a bit crazy. Older dogs described that way, well without professional opinion I’d guess the majority are just poorly trained/socialised. Blonde Phoenix, a puppy can definitely be high drive, I suggest you watch the video called 'So you think you want a high drive puppy'. I hope Nekhbet and others that understand this topic abit more drop a line on what they think. Edited November 18, 2011 by Bobby_The_Samoyed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyt Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 As discussed in this thread, why not just use the term "energetic"? With sighthounds, the term high prey drive is used to describe a dog that chases small animals down - that term is much more descriptive of the dog's behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevafollo Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Yes definately , it was somthing I was thinking about recently when someone was crapping on about drive. Im no expert but pretty sure they had no idea what they were talking about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Sandgrubber, the issue is that High Drive, is a term used differently by different people to describe different things. Someone may describe as an energetic terrier that runs around 10 hours a day as High Drive. While someone else will refer to the dedicated working line malinois as high drive. That is why im trying to see what everyone regards as a high drive dog, making it easier to point out specific points that people use in common and also uncommon points. At the end of the day, it will help people differentiate the uses of this term. . The same issue exists for words such as 'love' or 'aggressive'. I agree that 'energetic' and 'high drive' are not synonyms. Puppies are often highly energetic, but lack the focus that goes with drive. To me 'drive' implies focussed energy . . . which is often energy that a novice dog owner is likely to have a hard time handling. . . but which a skilled person can transfer to doing a job. Its' best if the 'drive' is described in terms of its focus, eg, prey drive, herding drive, play drive. (I'm a little ambivalent about 'food drive'). But I think it's a good thing for novices to know the word 'drive' even if they use it badly . . . merely knowing the word opens the mind to learning the difference between energetic and high drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dee lee Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 As discussed in this thread, why not just use the term "energetic"? With sighthounds, the term high prey drive is used to describe a dog that chases small animals down - that term is much more descriptive of the dog's behavior. I agree, drive is not energy. My previous dog was very high drive- she was alert & focused ON certain things a great deal of the time. Given a chance she would have chased whatever it was down to kill it. My current dog also has drive but it's fairly moderate, only kicks in over birds & rats... & sky writing... *sigh* However, once it kicks in, she is deaf to me & will give chase. Its very clear body language when a dog is IN drive, their body freezes & stiffens, ears go up, they become fixated on the object of their drive. It's actually quite magnificent to see, pure instinct. Being energetic is not the same & yes I think the term is wrongly used a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby_The_Samoyed Posted November 18, 2011 Author Share Posted November 18, 2011 As discussed in this thread, why not just use the term "energetic"? With sighthounds, the term high prey drive is used to describe a dog that chases small animals down - that term is much more descriptive of the dog's behavior. Hey Greyt, i didnt use the term energetic because i didnt mean energetic. I believe drive and energy have totally different meanings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Certainly there is "Breed tendency" and that is a guideline when choosing a breed as to what you are looking for. But then there is the individual and I have owned one of the most laid back easy going German Shepherd ever put on this planet (RIP Harley boy well see you again one day) and I now own one of the most "out there" Cavalier King Charles Spaniels who is just Go- Go- Go at the moment. And sometimes "High Drive dogs" will suddenly "chill" as their maturity and training reaches a point and you think you have a different dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poodle Mum Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 .......Yes! very much so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mochi Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Could someone please point me to where could I find more information about 'drive'? Any books or websites anyone could kindly recommend? I don't hear about it much in person (I don't have friends or colleagues who are in this kind of area) but have seen it mentioned on the internet. My dog is dog aggressive, trainer said it's because she wasn't socialised before we got her as an adult, and on walks she expresses the body language dee lee mentioned - freezing, ears pricked. I am not sure if what she's doing is drive, I'm quite confused about it, but I would like to read more so I can understand her better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Yes, the term 'drive' is used loosely, the qualifier 'high drive' is used even more loosely. In behavioural science it is used differently than in dog training, and amongst dog trainers there seems to be some agreement on what it means but no common, agreed upon definition. In different circles (breeds, sports) most people within those circles seem to have a pretty good idea what they are referring to and it is very useful within these circles. We would generally agree that prey drive takes different forms depending on the breed or purpose of dog (e.g prey drive could refer to flushing and retrieving in a spaniel, tracking in a bloodhound, or herding in a kelpie). Whether drive is "high" or not seems to be mostly relative to those circles also. Sometimes we see dogs referred to as "high drive" but even with a dedicated, skilled handler they would not do well in a working or sporting arena. Sometimes 'high drive' is used to excuse inconsistent or unclear handling or poor management. In it's worst form, 'high drive' is used to explain away undesirable traits that are not particularly useful (i.e they cannot be harnessed for a purpose even with skilled handling). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Sandgrubber, the issue is that High Drive, is a term used differently by different people to describe different things. Someone may describe as an energetic terrier that runs around 10 hours a day as High Drive. While someone else will refer to the dedicated working line malinois as high drive. That is why im trying to see what everyone regards as a high drive dog, making it easier to point out specific points that people use in common and also uncommon points. At the end of the day, it will help people differentiate the uses of this term. . I see people refer to their dogs as high drive when IMO the dogs are moderate and definitely not what I'd class as high drive, to me when I think of a high drive dog I think of a WL Malinois, like Pax's (member of this forum) dog Prix Could someone please point me to where could I find more information about 'drive'? Any books or websites anyone could kindly recommend? I don't hear about it much in person (I don't have friends or colleagues who are in this kind of area) but have seen it mentioned on the internet. My dog is dog aggressive, trainer said it's because she wasn't socialised before we got her as an adult, and on walks she expresses the body language dee lee mentioned - freezing, ears pricked. I am not sure if what she's doing is drive, I'm quite confused about it, but I would like to read more so I can understand her better. Here are a couple: http://www.k9pro.com.au/pages.php?pageid=79 http://www.k9pro.com.au/pages.php?pageid=55 A dog displaying aggression is displaying drive, just not what we'd class as a 'positive' drive like food, pack or prey drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Most people have no idea what it means. So many think it equals hyperactive and nothing could be further from the truth. A hyperactive dog is of no use for any sort of work except full time, 8 hours a day, detection work but drive is needed for all sorts of other dog work. A dog can be high drive and still have an off switch. There are also different types of drive - prey drive, working drive, aggressive drive, depending on the instincts of the breed. One add here on DOL had they they were breeding for highly strung dogs. Obviously confused with high drive but no breed should be highly strung. That would be a major temperament fault in any breed. Most owners and even dog sports competitiors do need really high drive dogs. They need dogs with working drive for whatever activity they are doing but you need a lot of time and experience to handle a really high drive dog. I have had one really high drive BC and he was awesome to train but most people could not have lived with him. I have also seen several very hyperactive BCs and they are completley different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Sometimes 'high drive' is used to excuse inconsistent or unclear handling or poor management. In it's worst form, 'high drive' is used to explain away undesirable traits that are not particularly useful (i.e they cannot be harnessed for a purpose even with skilled handling). I think that is the most important bit. The energy/behaviour needs to be able to be harnessed to be useful. Hyperactivity that cannot be harnessed is not useful, nor is highly strung that cannot be focussed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fox Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Could someone please point me to where could I find more information about 'drive'? Any books or websites anyone could kindly recommend? I don't hear about it much in person (I don't have friends or colleagues who are in this kind of area) but have seen it mentioned on the internet. My dog is dog aggressive, trainer said it's because she wasn't socialised before we got her as an adult, and on walks she expresses the body language dee lee mentioned - freezing, ears pricked. I am not sure if what she's doing is drive, I'm quite confused about it, but I would like to read more so I can understand her better. This may help explain it somewhat http://felixho.be/en/sacraalHart/index.html IMO the term "high drive" is overused and misunderstood. A lot of people who think they want a high drive dog would go mad if they actually owned one. High energy and high drive are not the same thing. Drive is intinctual and has a very specific end goal. I would consider a high drive dog to be one that has a good combination of the primary drives (as described in the attached article). Sorry, don't have time to go into more detail as I'm on my way out the door . Watching this topic with interest though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now