****

[Rebanne]

So I wonder what it was, was the child scratched possibly badly, or has the child got serioud head and neck wounds??

Not that really, at then end of the day, it matters, idiot dog owner allowing the dog to roam and now the dog will die and another nail is belted into the coffin of the dog world.

well it does matter to the child and family what happened but basically I agree, another dog dead cause it was owned by a moron, that allowed it to wander, another blow against the dog world in general and bull breeds in particular

[Snout Girl]

apparently the dog was only playing and over exciteable.

not condoning any actions just what I have heard on good authority

was the good authority personally there and are they qualified to make such comments?

they took eye witness statements, so yes

[sandgrubber]

Assuming it was just an overexcitable dog bouncing around and being an idiot . . l

This takes newspaper distortion to a new low!

Out of curiosity, are the worst of the newspapers involved all owned by Murdoch?

[TheCoat]

What's new, another Bull crossbreed attack, and people wonder why this type of dog is under the spotlight?

No crossbreeds are finely bred animals with years of bloodlines at hand for trait selection to produce a temperament balance to safely fit into the community, crap dogs bred by idiots unfortunately.

Yet another dumb comment. If you think pure breed = safety then you're sadly mistaken!!

Show us the attack stats for pure breed ANKC papered dogs supplied by registered breeders then compare that with BYB crossbreed involvement, that I think would be an interesting viewing?

If you think stats care about ANKC rego (along with the general public or journo's who report on attacks) then you're again sadly mistaken. I am sure it would be less as you imply, however it doesn't make a dog safe.

It can make a dog safe with a better breeding and breeding out fear biters and predisposition to aggression. Dogs escaping the yard and roaming in this case isn't the default behaviour for all dogs to go on an attacking rampage, in fact it would be interseting also to here people's opinion if they think their dog would attack people randomly on the street if they escaped the yard, I know mine wouldn't

Also you'll find that a majority of pedigree owned dogs have owners who put in the time, effort and love in training and keeping them secure. So 1. Very rarely would you find a beloved pet roaming, unless it played escape artist, which sometimes happens. Or 2. If it did roam, it would be trained not to maul.

Some people buy these types of cross breeds cheap and train them specifically to be attack / guard dogs, and don't particularly give 2 shits about whether they're contained or not.

It's not only 'pit bulls' that are dangeous, there are other dogs that can be just as dangeous due to neglect and lack of training.

The news papers need to stop being gossip magazines and start printing facts.

I agree, so where does the problem orginate?, my opinion is the people involved in random breedings and the supply of such dogs and the ease at which they are attainable. The people who don't give a shit about training and containing their dogs would be lucky that any ethical and registered breeder would sell them one, neither would these people jump through hoops and pay the money required for a well bred dog, the irresponsible without a dog is the safer plan in the control of needless attacks IMHO?

[TheCoat]

It can make a dog safe with a better breeding and breeding out fear biters and predisposition to aggression. Dogs escaping the yard and roaming in this case isn't the default behaviour for all dogs to go on an attacking rampage, in fact it would be interseting also to here people's opinion if they think their dog would attack people randomly on the street if they escaped the yard, I know mine wouldn't

Come on Coat, how many "breeders" stay in the game long enough to say they make an actual difference to the disposition of a breed as a whole? many just do what it takes to get their championship points, get a website, breed a few litters then it all gets too hard.

Dogs bite for a lot of different reasons, ridding dogs of fear aggression or their pre disposition to DA, isn't as simple as you make it sound.

People forget the same breeders that breed for temprement also provide loving homes, training and socialising.

Unless your dog has escaped, you can only guess how it would behave without you. I'm sure the owners of this dog didn't think this would happen either.

Take the Staffy for example, there is 538 registered breeders listed on the DOL home page, now I will absolutely guarantee in that 538 listed, there will be Stafford breeders who know them inside and out and can supply dogs of good temperament, infact I know 3 Stafford breeders who's dogs are excellent with generations of providing quality pups, not all breed enthusiasts breeders are fools, there is one Stafford breeder I know who can name dogs in a pedigree renowned for producing dog aggression in the progeny, regardless, there is more opportunity attaining the right temperament from people who know their breed than the BYB who knows nothing more than a male and female makes puppies?

[Souff]

What's new, another Bull crossbreed attack, and people wonder why this type of dog is under the spotlight?

No crossbreeds are finely bred animals with years of bloodlines at hand for trait selection to produce a temperament balance to safely fit into the community, crap dogs bred by idiots unfortunately.

Unfortunate dogs owned by irresponsible owners unwilling to take the time to socialise and train their dogs to be good canine citizens....

Your hatred of crossbreeds sickens me and makes you look a bigot!

ROBBI,

This is a forum for the pure breed dog community and I totally agree and support what TheCoat has said:

"No crossbreeds are finely bred animals with years of bloodlines at hand for trait selection to produce a temperament balance to safely fit into the community ..."

This is absolutely spot on and yet you choose to attack the writer.

Why on earth would hundreds of breeders of purebred dogs have taken the trouble to research bloodlines before breeding, often over many years, if we were not trying to breed dogs with predictable features, including temperament.

GOOD STABLE, PREDICTABLE TEMPERAMENT is everything in a companion animal.

You can never aim for that predictability in a crossbred dog because of all the unknowns involved.

Souff

[Animal House]

apparently the dog was only playing and over exciteable.

not condoning any actions just what I have heard on good authority

was the good authority personally there and are they qualified to make such comments?

they took eye witness statements, so yes

So if the dog was just excitable, why did the guy who came to help have to belt it with a wrench? And then (according to his interview which I saw on tv) have to choke/ strangle the dog to get it off the child?

[TheCoat]

What's new, another Bull crossbreed attack, and people wonder why this type of dog is under the spotlight?

No crossbreeds are finely bred animals with years of bloodlines at hand for trait selection to produce a temperament balance to safely fit into the community, crap dogs bred by idiots unfortunately.

Unfortunate dogs owned by irresponsible owners unwilling to take the time to socialise and train their dogs to be good canine citizens....

Your hatred of crossbreeds sickens me and makes you look a bigot!

It's absolute nonesense to suggest that the default behaviour of dogs poorly raised is aggression, the dog has to have a predisposition for it in the first place. The are plenty of dogs poorly raised and not all go out on attacking rampages when unsupervised is my point. No, I don't like crossbreed dogs being the reason I joined a purebreed forum

[Chris the Rebel Wolf]

That's interesting that one paper says 'facial scratches' on the baby and the other reports 'horrific facial injuries' - wonder which is closer to the actual truth?

[KatrinaM]

Big difference between backyard bred crosses and planned working cross breeding. Pure or cross there are disappointing people's producing "tough" "blue" or "cute". There are plenty of pedigree breeders who don't give a second thought to temperament, plenty of cross breeders who do and breed predictable natures in the dogs they produce.

[TheCoat]

Big difference between backyard bred crosses and planned working cross breeding. Pure or cross there are disappointing people's producing "tough" "blue" or "cute". There are plenty of pedigree breeders who don't give a second thought to temperament, plenty of cross breeders who do and breed predictable natures in the dogs they produce.

I am aware of people breeding working crossbreeds, farm, hunting dogs etc where they have generations of their home brew that provides traits suitable for their working application, but I am talking about the average crossbreed mongrel supplied in great quantities by the BYB. But the fact is if you are just crossbreeding random dogs as the BYB's do, there is no chance of producing any particular traits or quality when eveything bred is of unknown parentage is what I am

getting at. Why would anyone want to become an expert for an example breeding Staffy X Labrador pets, there is no point to it?

Edited November 18, 2011 by TheCoat

[sandgrubber]

It can make a dog safe with a better breeding and breeding out fear biters and predisposition to aggression. Dogs escaping the yard and roaming in this case isn't the default behaviour for all dogs to go on an attacking rampage, in fact it would be interseting also to here people's opinion if they think their dog would attack people randomly on the street if they escaped the yard, I know mine wouldn't

Come on Coat, how many "breeders" stay in the game long enough to say they make an actual difference to the disposition of a breed as a whole? many just do what it takes to get their championship points, get a website, breed a few litters then it all gets too hard.

Dogs bite for a lot of different reasons, ridding dogs of fear aggression or their pre disposition to DA, isn't as simple as you make it sound.

People forget the same breeders that breed for temprement also provide loving homes, training and socialising.

Take the Staffy for example, there is 538 registered breeders listed on the DOL home page, now I will absolutely guarantee in that 538 listed, there will be Stafford breeders who know them inside and out and can supply dogs of good temperament, infact I know 3 Stafford breeders who's dogs are excellent with generations of providing quality pups, not all breed enthusiasts breeders are fools, there is one Stafford breeder I know who can name dogs in a pedigree renowned for producing dog aggression in the progeny, regardless, there is more opportunity attaining the right temperament from people who know their breed than the BYB who knows nothing more than a male and female makes puppies?

In the years I was doing a couple litters a year, I was amazed by the extent to which both sire and dam affect temperament.

Breeding for temperament is no silver bullet, but it would be a big help. And it would make a lot of people's experience with their puppies a lot more positive.

[KatrinaM]

They why state it's a problem with "ALL" crossbreds?? Isnt it actually a problem of irresponsible breeders. Just because you fork over cash to the state controlling body and get two dogs on open register that you can breed together hardly makes you responsible!

[stone]

They why state it's a problem with "ALL" crossbreds?? Isnt it actually a problem of irresponsible breeders. Just because you fork over cash to the state controlling body and get two dogs on open register that you can breed together hardly makes you responsible!

Have you ever consider this is not the right forum for breeders of xbreed mongrels.

You knowledge of animal husbandry appears to be very limited.

[stone]

Does anyone have an update on this story?

One headline I read online was -

"Heroic dad in life & death struggle with killer dog"

Given there was an even more horrific headline story on the Sydney news casts I didn't see any reference to this "life & death struggle".

Maybe I missed it.

That headline reminded me of the joke where a young child toppled & fell into the lions den at the zoo.

Just as the lion was about to pounce, a man hurdled the fence onto the lions back & after a titanic struggle killed the lion & saved the little kid.

A reporter just happened to witness this & told the man it was the bravest thing he had ever seen & tomorrows headline would would read,

"Aussie hero saves childs life"

"But I'm English"

revised headline

"Pommie bastard kills childs pet"

[sandgrubber]

They why state it's a problem with "ALL" crossbreds?? Isnt it actually a problem of irresponsible breeders. Just because you fork over cash to the state controlling body and get two dogs on open register that you can breed together hardly makes you responsible!

Have you ever consider this is not the right forum for breeders of xbreed mongrels.

You knowledge of animal husbandry appears to be very limited.

I'm totally in the pure breed / pedigree camp, but agree with KatrinaM. There are backyarders I would fault for not doing genetic tests, etc., but who breed primarily because their dogs have been fantastic companions and they and some friends want a pup . . . as well as backyarders who end out with pups through carelessness . .. and those who try to get the perfect teacup -oodle. . . and those who breed FOR aggression. But many pedigree breeders will use a Gr Ch with known temperament faults, and some breeds seem to have gone downhill in the temperament spectrum (eg, the rash of aggressive Golden retrievers) through bad breeding.

I would say this is a good reason NOT to get a pup from a petshop . . . . cause there's no way to find out what the sire and dam's temperament were like.

Edited November 18, 2011 by sandgrubber

[stone]

Double dip

Edited November 18, 2011 by stone

[stone]

They why state it's a problem with "ALL" crossbreds?? Isnt it actually a problem of irresponsible breeders. Just because you fork over cash to the state controlling body and get two dogs on open register that you can breed together hardly makes you responsible!

Have you ever consider this is not the right forum for breeders of xbreed mongrels.

You knowledge of animal husbandry appears to be very limited.

I'm totally in the pure breed / pedigree camp, but agree with KatrinaM. There are backyarders I would fault for not doing genetic tests, etc., but who breed primarily because their dogs have been fantastic companions and they and some friends want a pup . . . as well as backyarders who end out with pups through carelessness . .. and those who try to get the perfect teacup -oodle. . . and those who breed FOR aggression. But many pedigree breeders will use a Gr Ch with known temperament faults, and some breeds seem to have gone downhill in the temperament spectrum (eg, the rash of aggressive Golden retrievers) through bad breeding.

I would say this is a good reason NOT to get a pup from a petshop . . . . cause there's no way to find out what the sire and dam's temperament were like.

I'm with TheCoat, I don't support deliberate byb for any reason. Accidental is bad enough, deliberate is diabolical.

I don't know of any registered breeder that does & am really surprised to hear of an advocate of the registered pure breed fraternity that would.

Working dog people, working working dogs i.e. are proud & protective of their reputations for quality & wouldn't just pump out any old any old either.

Edited November 18, 2011 by stone

[sandgrubber]

They why state it's a problem with "ALL" crossbreds?? Isnt it actually a problem of irresponsible breeders. Just because you fork over cash to the state controlling body and get two dogs on open register that you can breed together hardly makes you responsible!

Have you ever consider this is not the right forum for breeders of xbreed mongrels.

You knowledge of animal husbandry appears to be very limited.

I'm totally in the pure breed / pedigree camp, but agree with KatrinaM. There are backyarders I would fault for not doing genetic tests, etc., but who breed primarily because their dogs have been fantastic companions and they and some friends want a pup . . . as well as backyarders who end out with pups through carelessness . .. and those who try to get the perfect teacup -oodle. . . and those who breed FOR aggression. But many pedigree breeders will use a Gr Ch with known temperament faults, and some breeds seem to have gone downhill in the temperament spectrum (eg, the rash of aggressive Golden retrievers) through bad breeding.

I would say this is a good reason NOT to get a pup from a petshop . . . . cause there's no way to find out what the sire and dam's temperament were like.

I'm with TheCoat, I don't support deliberate byb for any reason. Accidental is bad enough, deliberate is diabolical.

I don't know of any registered breeder that does & am really surprised to hear of an advocate of the registered pure breed fraternity that would.

Working dog people, working working dogs i.e. are proud & protective of their reputations for quality & wouldn't just pump out any old any old either.

Sometimes I can't figure out whether people are one short of a sixpack, or just so enthusiastic about casting judgement that they attack without reading.

Stone, it would be interesting to know how you did on reading comprehension tests in school?

I did not say I support X-breeding or BYB's.

I did say that some BYB'rs breed for temperament . . . some of them do it well. Others are careless, indiscriminate, or deliberately breed for antisocial behaviour.

I also noted that there is room for improvement in the pedigree dog world. Many people put temperament too far down on their list of priorities. Some breeds have suffered temperament deterioration due to breeding choices that ignore temperament.

Do you understand the distinction?

[Robbi]

What's new, another Bull crossbreed attack, and people wonder why this type of dog is under the spotlight?

No crossbreeds are finely bred animals with years of bloodlines at hand for trait selection to produce a temperament balance to safely fit into the community, crap dogs bred by idiots unfortunately.

Unfortunate dogs owned by irresponsible owners unwilling to take the time to socialise and train their dogs to be good canine citizens....

Your hatred of crossbreeds sickens me and makes you look a bigot!

ROBBI,

This is a forum for the pure breed dog community and I totally agree and support what TheCoat has said:

"No crossbreeds are finely bred animals with years of bloodlines at hand for trait selection to produce a temperament balance to safely fit into the community ..."

This is absolutely spot on and yet you choose to attack the writer.

Why on earth would hundreds of breeders of purebred dogs have taken the trouble to research bloodlines before breeding, often over many years, if we were not trying to breed dogs with predictable features, including temperament.

GOOD STABLE, PREDICTABLE TEMPERAMENT is everything in a companion animal.

You can never aim for that predictability in a crossbred dog because of all the unknowns involved.

Souff

In no way or form do I support bybs or puppy farmers I have purebred dogs, I show dogs, I also have a crossbreed dog and she is no less warrenting respect and the right to live as my pedigreed dogs.

The Coat has outragously insulted Pit Bulls and other Bull Breeds and their owners yet that is perfectly acceptable?

I am not condoning the breeding of crossbred dogs CERTAINLY NOT but I am saying that you will not wipe out crossbreeds in the near future so why not educate the owners rather than treat them and their dogs like lepers.

Edited November 18, 2011 by Robbi