Have We Got Our Priorities Right?

[Dame Aussie]

I would also imagine that ANKC registered purebred dogs (no matter the breed) are unlikely to have been involved in any fatal (to a human) dog attack, less likely to be involved with other attacks and less likely to be abandoned and mistreated, but I’ve never seen anyone pushing these sort of points.

You may be right, but I think it would only be the case because good dog owners are already more likely to buy well bred dogs, not the other way around.

I have one purebred and one rescue and to be completely honest, I would trust my rescue more than my purebred when it comes to how they act around strange people.

[mita]

Here's the photo that says to me, purebred dogs from the show world, in the hands of caring & experienced breeders, already have the potential to be great pets.

3 registered breeders, who fit that description... with their dogs after a show. They originally posted it, to say how happy & relaxing it was, to catch up with fellow breeders. (I asked for their permission.)

But...look at the faces and body language of their show dogs. Who's just as happy and relaxed....out in public, with other people and other dogs? Much care & thought & effort have gone into those beautiful, confident, happy little dogs.

As I said previously, I've now adopted 3 adult dogs from 1 of those ladies....& another Brisbane person recently adopted 1.

You can guess what their natures are like. When people praise them as wonderful pets, I honestly say, 'They came like that....from the world of show dogs.'

[Blonde_Phoenix]

Aussie, I think it's a combination, a bit from nature and a bit from nurture. Breeding from known lines allows choices to be made to increase the chances of a ‘good’ natured dog, but of course it’s not an exact science. I do think also (and this is a massive generalisation) that those who choose to own registered purebred dogs would tend to have more interest/knowledge/experience in dogs when compared to the general dog owning public. This in turn would lead to better behavioural outcomes.

My statement was more to do with how the ANKC represents itself rather than passing judgement on dogs from other origins.

I totally agree there are plenty of lovely natured cross breeds out there and plenty of their owners are just as knowledgeable and responsible as those who own purebreds.

[Jay57]

I have just joined Vic dogs and so far I cannot say it has been a pleasant experience, very off putting to say the least, phone calls are short and abrupt with no explanations, I got more information from Dogs NSW at a cost of a dearer phone call, the lady was pleasant, did not treat me like an idiot, 1 feel like moving to NSW(lol)

[Dame Aussie]

Aussie, I think it's a combination, a bit from nature and a bit from nurture. Breeding from known lines allows choices to be made to increase the chances of a ‘good’ natured dog, but of course it’s not an exact science. I do think also (and this is a massive generalisation) that those who choose to own registered purebred dogs would tend to have more interest/knowledge/experience in dogs when compared to the general dog owning public. This in turn would lead to better behavioural outcomes. My statement was more to do with how the ANKC represents itself rather than passing judgement on dogs from other origins.

I totally agree there are plenty of lovely natured cross breeds out there and plenty of their owners are just as knowledgeable and responsible as those who own purebreds.

Ah ok, sorry BP, I totally agree with you anyway, the bolded part was what I was getting at.

[conztruct]

I think the ANKC could do a little more to promote purebred dogs but to an extent it can be difficult because actually obtaining a purebred dog involves dealing with a range of breeders in most instances who all have different levels of skills and knowledge and different attributes they are seeking for a potential home.

There is nothing wrong with this either - most breeders want the best for the dogs they're placing and their expectations will be different - just as the consumer's is.

The great conundrum is when looking at purebred vs BYB/puppy farm is that most purebred breeders have some standards or expectations whereas most BYB/puppy farms are only too happy to tell people what they want to hear and reply yes to everything to make a sale. When you factor in the aspect that to a large extent, we are an instant gratification purchase society...it's easy to see how people are beguiled.

I think (and it's only my thought) is that the purebred fraternity should continue to focus on being a provider of quality dogs to a niche market of potential owners who are willing to learn, be responsible and view their dog as more than a throw-away possession.

It's not an easy issue by any stretch.....ANKC really only has limited powers because consumers have the right to make whatever choice they like and given the option of having a potentially difficult purchase answering questions where the breeder (salesperson) is very much in control (and should be),etc vs an instant acquisition (which our society is pretty much culture-programmed to seek) where the consumer is told everything they want and made to feel like they're honourable and right in everything they say.

Then you've also got the problems of a few rogue purebred breeders which the gives a false impression of the purebred fraternity as being willing to give people whatever they want, when that is not usually the case - for example - at a recent show I heard the following:

PUBLIC JO: I really like staffies, especially the blue ones because they are rarer and all the ones I've seen are much better quality than the other colours....

BREEDER: Oh yes, definately, they are very rare, we breed some very good quality ones - that's why they are so much more expensive than the others......

[Dame Aussie]

PUBLIC JO: I really like staffies, especially the blue ones because they are rarer and all the ones I've seen are much better quality than the other colours....

BREEDER: Oh yes, definately, they are very rare, we breed some very good quality ones - that's why they are so much more expensive than the others......

[raineth]

Conztruct you raise a point that I have thought about as well.

I'm not into byb and puppy farms... I don't see it as possible for everyone to buy off registered breeders though.

This is because more often than not the people who buy from petshops or from bybs don't provide the kind of home that registered breeders would approve of.

Often these people do not value what the pedigree breeder provides anyway. But if they did go to a registered breeder, the breeder would most likely not sell a dog to home where they suspect it will live a life of boredom.

(obviously it would be preferable these sorts of people not buy a dog at all, but if they want one, they will buy one).

I think this is relevant to how pedigree/registered breeders promote themselves and purebreed dogs.

Promoting the idea of a dog being a valued member of the family (and having all its needs met) would be just as important as promoting registered breeders. If that mindset can be developed then people would take the purchasing of the dog more seriously as well and start to see for themselves the benefits of buying from a registered breeder.

please note: I do know that there are people who are wonderful owners who bought from petshops or byb's. I am talking in general terms, where I see people who so often purchase a dog that never really ends up having its needs met and becomes a back yard ornament

[WreckitWhippet]

I think (and it's only my thought) is that the purebred fraternity should continue to focus on being a provider of quality dogs to a niche market of potential owners who are willing to learn, be responsible and view their dog as more than a throw-away possession.

This is perhaps the most sensible sentence ever written on DOL and you are spot on.

This is exactly what we should be doing

[~Anne~]

I'd agree with the niche market point if (and this is the crux of the issue) the numbers of purebred dogs remained steady. They are in decline so the niche market is not actually a niche market, but a dying one.

[mita]

Even niche markets vary in size & the majority of the pet-buying public still don't know either (1) that they CAN buy puppies/dogs from 'show' people, or (2) HOW to do so.

As someone else said earlier, the job description of the Kennel Club is to act as a registry & to organise shows.

Also, as someone else said earlier, so there needs to be another 'wing' of KCs which is a parish pump for the (pure) Breed Fanciers.

Centering on purebreds & where information about purebreds as pets, can be obtained. At the moment, all this depends more on word-of-mouth or finding out by sheer chance.

Interestingly, CHOICE, the Australian Consumers' Association, subtely points puppy/dog buyers towards buying from registered breeders (& ethical rescues).

There still remains numbers of people who are responsible dog owners & who don't treat their dogs as throwaways....who still don't know that they can get p/b puppies/ dogs directly from registered breeders.

Our vet, who's dealt with the adult p/bs that a few of us have adopted, contacted me last week because she wanted details of how this was done.

She wants to tell 'good' pet owning clients who honestly believe that pet people have to go to places like pet shops....& that show people only sell to show people. She's been impressed by the socialisation of these 'show' dogs. Given she's seen them in the very first weeks they've been in their new homes.

It's a plus for welfare....as the evidence is in, that puppies/dogs raised by & sourced from registered breeders tend to be better socialised and so make a better transition into pet homes. It would also be expected that registered breeders would more likely screen for suitability.

This is a market that needs some well-placed public relations. Where the benefits and realities can be spelled out to consumers. Realities such as buyers are likely to be screened and there may be waiting time.

Edited November 25, 2011 by mita

[Steve]

But- if we promote this niche market and spend money and resources to go nuts telling pet buyers they are better suited to go to someone who is breeding registered purebred dogs where is the supply?

If we try to increase the demand for what we do who will fill that demand when every day there are less and less breeders - only 4 and a half thousand Australia wide last year and in just the last 2 weeks Ive heard of 3 who have walked away - about a dozen in the last year.

I have my last ANKC litter on the ground now. We place lots of pressure on breeding less and every single time we look up its harder and harder.

Breeding purebred dogs used to be good fun, buying a registered purebred puppy used to be pretty simple too. Thats long gone. If anyone went mad and started promoting registered purebreds right now as is being suggested all that would do is send more customers toward those who now breed unregistered purebreds.

[Gayle.]

It's very untrue that people who source their pets from pet shops and backyard breeders regard them as "throwaways'. That is a disgusting assumption to make. I had pet shop dogs, one lived until 12 and died of a stroke and my heart broke into a million pieces when she left me. The other died this year aged 17 and never had a sick day in her life and was loved and cherished every single day of her long, healthy life.

I work with people who have got pets from backyard breeders......mostly staffies, labs and oodles, and they definitely don't consider them throwaway pets. They are no less loved than my pedigree dogs are.

Would they go to registered dog breeders if they knew about them? Maybe, maybe not. They don't know about them so they didn't. They got their pets at the places they knew to get pets from.....the local pet shops and from people advertising in the local paper.

[Steve]

It's very untrue that people who source their pets from pet shops and backyard breeders regard them as "throwaways'. That is a disgusting assumption to make. I had pet shop dogs, one lived until 12 and died of a stroke and my heart broke into a million pieces when she left me. The other died this year aged 17 and never had a sick day in her life and was loved and cherished every single day of her long, healthy life.

I work with people who have got pets from backyard breeders......mostly staffies, labs and oodles, and they definitely don't consider them throwaway pets. They are no less loved than my pedigree dogs are.

Would they go to registered dog breeders if they knew about them? Maybe, maybe not. They don't know about them so they didn't. They got their pets at the places they knew to get pets from.....the local pet shops and from people advertising in the local paper.

Yep.

[~Anne~]

If the right support was provided, it would also slow the decline of breeders. It all works together. Breeders need support. Currently, there is inadequate support and promottion it seems.

Edited November 25, 2011 by ~Anne~

[Steve]

If the right support was provided, it would also slow the decline of breeders. It all works together. Breeders need support. Currently, there is inadequate support and promottion it seems.

Its not about support its about over regulation. Breeders arent walking away because the ANKC doesnt support them.

[mita]

It's very untrue that people who source their pets from pet shops and backyard breeders regard them as "throwaways'. That is a disgusting assumption to make.

Where did someone make that assumption? I'm not having a 'go'.....I may have missed it.

The point I made was that there are people with a good record in pet ownership (wherever their pets have come from) who don't know that they can buy directly from registered breeders.

And there's scientific evidence of the statistically significant differences in socialisation between puppies sourced from registered breeders & those from unregistered breeders (UQ). It's a trend, not every single case.

Not in answer to you but someone else. The people I've referred on to contact registered breeders in order to enquire about adopting an adult dog (of my fancied breed), have all successfully obtained one. With the proviso, told up front, they may need to wait until a good match comes up. And it has.

There appears to be a positive culture among that group, both here & internationally. I can't speak for any other breeds.

So I continue with word of mouth, for my own breed. Also there's been initiatives like 'just for fun' picnics, put on by the breed club (NSW), where breed fanciers with their pets are equally welcome (& where folk interested in the breed can be directed). My own state has a Social Club, run for both breed fanciers & show people by the registered breeders.

Edited November 25, 2011 by mita

[Gayle.]

It's very untrue that people who source their pets from pet shops and backyard breeders regard them as "throwaways'. That is a disgusting assumption to make.

Where did someone make that assumption? I'm not having a 'go'.....I may have missed it.

The point I made was that there are people with a good record in pet ownership (wherever their pets have come from) who don't know that they can buy directly from registered breeders.

Not in answer to you but someone else. The people I've referred on to contact registered breeders in order to enquire about adopting an adult dog (of my fancied breed), have all successfully obtained one. With the proviso, told up front, they may need to wait until a good match comes up. And it has.

There appears to be a positive culture among that group, both here & internationally. I can't speak for any other breeds.

So I continue with word of mouth, for my own breed. Also there's been initiatives like 'just for fun' picnics, put on by the breed club (NSW), where breed fanciers with their pets are equally welcome (& where folk interested in the breed can be directed). My own state has a Breed Social Club, run for pets & show by the registered breeders.

It's a general assumption that sometimes comes up when people on here refer to those who purchase their pets from shops or unregistered breeders. Not to anyone in particular, just in general. Where someone buys their pet does not equate to how they treat their pet, and I'd go so far as to say that some of those pets live better and more fulfilled lives than some that are owned by registered breeders....the ones who have a revolving door of dog ownership, and pass their dogs from breeder to breeder, show home to show home.

[Blonde_Phoenix]

I think the quote that was taken exception to was this one

I think (and it's only my thought) is that the purebred fraternity should continue to focus on being a provider of quality dogs to a niche market of potential owners who are willing to learn, be responsible and view their dog as more than a throw-away possession.

I don't think it was Conztruct's intention to say that those who own dogs from 'less reputable' sources consider their pets throw-away (well at least I hope they didn't). My families BYB girl is seriously the greatest dog to walk the earth ( well in my unbiased opinion anyway). She has just retired from agility competitions at age thirteen obviously not a good poster pup for BYB dogs are unhealthy.

I'm genuinely interested Steve, where is the over regulation coming from, is it the government or is it dog organisations? I don't breed so I honestly don't know.

[casowner]

As the owner of a reasonably sized store in a higher income area I am interested to see where our customers have sourced their dogs from and have decided that from Jan 1st 2012 - March 31st 2012 I am going to run a survey with our customers about where their dogs came from. I am personally interested to see the results. I will break it down to registered breeders, pet shops, rescue, internet/paper and also have a section on general breed types pure - cross and sizes - toy, small, medium, large and giant. A large percentage of our business is made up of sales of super premium pet foods and dog accessories and this survey will help me put in place business developments but will also help my genuine curiosity also.