Guest donatella Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 I have two dogs with low immunity that have to be vaccinated almost yearly. Most vets recommend yearly vacc as the cost of titre testing etc puts most people off. Vaccinating is much the same price. Two things here - low immunity judging by what? Titre testing only shows up the antibodies actually in the blood stream at the time. If the dog hasn't been exposed to the virus "recently" then the antibodies won't be wandering around the bloodstream, that's not how the immune system works. The dog could then test as having low immunity when it could be that if the dog encounters the virus it's immune system will actually do what it's meant to do and produce the right antibodies. The cost of vaccinating vs the cost of titre testing may be the reason why some people chose to vaccinate and that's their choice. The cost TO THE DOG is the reason I choose not to vaccinate annually. I ask a simple question - when were you last titre tested or vaccinated for polio? Judging by the fact they are diagnosed with a immunity disorder and one of them has cancer for the second time. My dogs are exposed all the time due to me being a vet nurse. I bring it home no matter how much cleaning and scrubbing I do. Do NOT judge me because I choose to vaccinate to protect my immunity challanged dogs. I respect everyone's decision to vaccinate to their beliefs, so I'd hope people on here would do the same. I really resent the fact you are implying I'm costing my dog I'm going to ask you being the vet nurse and working in the industry, is there any detriment in vaccinating your dog every year? I just thought it was the norm, at least that's what the vets here have always told us and my dogs growing up have always lived to old ages of 16, mums dog now is 15 and gets vacc'd every year (which i realise now is probably not necessary although she does also get a monthly arthritis vacc cause the old dears legs are getting wobbly). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everythings Shiny Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Judging by the fact they are diagnosed with a immunity disorder and one of them has cancer for the second time. Thank you, and I was to know this how? Many many people have had their dogs titre tested, the results have come back inconclusive and they have been told (and believe) their dogs have low immunity when there really is no way of knowing this from the titre test. My dogs are exposed all the time due to me being a vet nurse. I bring it home no matter how much cleaning and scrubbing I do. Do NOT judge me because I choose to vaccinate to protect my immunity challanged dogs. I respect everyone's decision to vaccinate to their beliefs, so I'd hope people on here would do the same. I really resent the fact you are implying I'm costing my dog Unless we keep them in glass boxes they're going to be "exposed". I didn't do any judging so sorry you jumped to that conclusion, but I would be incredibly reluctant to continue to vaccinate a dog who's immune system is already seriously compromised. That's MY belief. If I wasn't a nurse in a extremely high parvo area - I may have agreed with you. Sorry if I jumped down your throat Paige has only recently been rediagnosed with cancer and i'm a little touchy about anything to do with her. I'm going to ask you being the vet nurse and working in the industry, is there any detriment in vaccinating your dog every year? I just thought it was the norm, at least that's what the vets here have always told us and my dogs growing up have always lived to old ages of 16, mums dog now is 15 and gets vacc'd every year (which i realise now is probably not necessary although she does also get a monthly arthritis vacc cause the old dears legs are getting wobbly). I have never seen an issue, I've seen hundreds of dogs that are vaccinated from puppy to elderly and not had an issue. Almost every vet i have worked with recommends yearly vacc but doesn't push it IF the owner has valid reasoning. Parvo in our area is rampant and is the really nasty strain that even vaccinated dogs are catching it (no where near as badly however) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 (edited) My understanding is that when these core vaccines were originally registered, the duration of immunity wasn't really tested, although they knew they lasted at least 12months so went with an annual dosage, possibly out of convenience and maybe even due to the costs that are involved in obtaining a longer registration. Back then it would have been quicker and cheaper to do a 12month study rather than a 3+ yearly study. I don't believe there is any hard scientific evidence that vaccines directly cause problems, however we are seeing immune mediated diseases being triggered off soon after vaccines. So it's possible those animals already had an inefficient immune system and the vaccine is just the stimulant to get it fired up. What it comes down to for us (vet clinic), is that we now know vaccines are lasting much longer than 12 months. So with that in mind, why give them more than they need? Why give them something every 12months which creates such an immune response? Remember the vaccine is usually at least 3 viruses in one go. Obviously you have areas where the incidence of Parvo is higher, however this is commonly in lower socio-economic areas where people don't have their dogs vaccinated at all. So you have unvaccinated bitches producing puppies who therefore have no maternal antibodies and then in many cases won't get vaccinated at all. If we could just get those people to vaccinate their adults once and have puppies receive at least their puppy shots, I believe we would see a massive reduction in parvo cases. I also believe that if a vaccinated (adult) dog gets Parvo, then it likely would have regardless of whether you vaccinated it triennially, annually or even weekly. My dog has allergies which is an overactive immune system. So because his immune system is already a bit 'broken', I won't give him another vaccine unless I have to because for me, it's not worth the risk of his immune system possibly having a melt down and possibly developing auto immune problems. Edited November 16, 2011 by stormie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest donatella Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Judging by the fact they are diagnosed with a immunity disorder and one of them has cancer for the second time. Thank you, and I was to know this how? Many many people have had their dogs titre tested, the results have come back inconclusive and they have been told (and believe) their dogs have low immunity when there really is no way of knowing this from the titre test. My dogs are exposed all the time due to me being a vet nurse. I bring it home no matter how much cleaning and scrubbing I do. Do NOT judge me because I choose to vaccinate to protect my immunity challanged dogs. I respect everyone's decision to vaccinate to their beliefs, so I'd hope people on here would do the same. I really resent the fact you are implying I'm costing my dog Unless we keep them in glass boxes they're going to be "exposed". I didn't do any judging so sorry you jumped to that conclusion, but I would be incredibly reluctant to continue to vaccinate a dog who's immune system is already seriously compromised. That's MY belief. If I wasn't a nurse in a extremely high parvo area - I may have agreed with you. Sorry if I jumped down your throat Paige has only recently been rediagnosed with cancer and i'm a little touchy about anything to do with her. I'm going to ask you being the vet nurse and working in the industry, is there any detriment in vaccinating your dog every year? I just thought it was the norm, at least that's what the vets here have always told us and my dogs growing up have always lived to old ages of 16, mums dog now is 15 and gets vacc'd every year (which i realise now is probably not necessary although she does also get a monthly arthritis vacc cause the old dears legs are getting wobbly). I have never seen an issue, I've seen hundreds of dogs that are vaccinated from puppy to elderly and not had an issue. Almost every vet i have worked with recommends yearly vacc but doesn't push it IF the owner has valid reasoning. Parvo in our area is rampant and is the really nasty strain that even vaccinated dogs are catching it (no where near as badly however) That's awful to hear and a completely valid reason to be vaccinating vigilantly! I guess I'll just stick with the advice of my vet, they're the ones that study medicine for 4/5 years and have the knowledge and the know in regards to vaccs and disease etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dame Aussie Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Judging by the fact they are diagnosed with a immunity disorder and one of them has cancer for the second time. Thank you, and I was to know this how? Many many people have had their dogs titre tested, the results have come back inconclusive and they have been told (and believe) their dogs have low immunity when there really is no way of knowing this from the titre test. My dogs are exposed all the time due to me being a vet nurse. I bring it home no matter how much cleaning and scrubbing I do. Do NOT judge me because I choose to vaccinate to protect my immunity challanged dogs. I respect everyone's decision to vaccinate to their beliefs, so I'd hope people on here would do the same. I really resent the fact you are implying I'm costing my dog Unless we keep them in glass boxes they're going to be "exposed". I didn't do any judging so sorry you jumped to that conclusion, but I would be incredibly reluctant to continue to vaccinate a dog who's immune system is already seriously compromised. That's MY belief. If I wasn't a nurse in a extremely high parvo area - I may have agreed with you. Sorry if I jumped down your throat Paige has only recently been rediagnosed with cancer and i'm a little touchy about anything to do with her. I'm going to ask you being the vet nurse and working in the industry, is there any detriment in vaccinating your dog every year? I just thought it was the norm, at least that's what the vets here have always told us and my dogs growing up have always lived to old ages of 16, mums dog now is 15 and gets vacc'd every year (which i realise now is probably not necessary although she does also get a monthly arthritis vacc cause the old dears legs are getting wobbly). I have never seen an issue, I've seen hundreds of dogs that are vaccinated from puppy to elderly and not had an issue. Almost every vet i have worked with recommends yearly vacc but doesn't push it IF the owner has valid reasoning. Parvo in our area is rampant and is the really nasty strain that even vaccinated dogs are catching it (no where near as badly however) That's awful to hear and a completely valid reason to be vaccinating vigilantly! I guess I'll just stick with the advice of my vet, they're the ones that study medicine for 4/5 years and have the knowledge and the know in regards to vaccs and disease etc. Only problem here is the vets in Australia are far behind the ones in the US and other countries. We are one of the only countries that still recommends yearly vaccinations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickyp Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 This thread is really interesting. We vaccinated our dogs annually when they were attending regular obedience classes, because it was a requirement and because they were around large numbers of other dogs at those classes, but stopped when we gave up obedience training. Since then they've only been vaccinated when it was required for boarding or attending an event of some kind (Em went to several herding workshops, for example). The cat hasn't been done for about 10 years and, at 13 years of age, she is almost an exclusively indoor cat now. We are moving house soon and I was thinking of vaccinating the dogs and cat before we do so because I have no idea how prevalent illnesses like parvo and cat flu may be where we're going (and we plan to move twice in 6-12 months). Now I'm wondering whether, for the dogs at least, titre testing might be sufficient to ensure they still have a reasonable immunity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everythings Shiny Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Popsicle - I'd probably titre test, but check with your vet if you have a vet you really trust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westiemum Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Very interesting discussion as usual. I generally agree with Westielover - raw human grade diet and no vaccinations... except according to my vet yesterday we are seeing particularly nasty parvo outbreak in patches across Adelaide at the moment. And as I'm not working at the moment I'm taking the westies much futher afield with me. I inadvertently took them to a dog park (Oaklands) a week or so ago and then found out it was a source of parvo - lucky for me alls clear here - so in line with the vets advice I decided to vaccinate yesterday so all three westies are vaccinated for the next three years and this will probably be their last. (Will titre test them all at the end of 2014). I trust my vet implicitly and have learnt that if she is being more insistent than usual (as she was yesterday) that I should listen carefully. She explained about this really nasty parvo which is around at the moment and that if I want to continue taking them to public parks, and given they are all otherwise perfectly healthy then vaccinating is wise and should be no problem for them. She said if Mac,my old boy contracted parvo it would be likely to kill him - so vaccinate I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 I trust my vet implicitly and have learnt that if she is being more insistent than usual (as she was yesterday) that I should listen carefully. She explained about this really nasty parvo which is around at the moment and that if I want to continue taking them to public parks, and given they are all otherwise perfectly healthy then vaccinating is wise and should be no problem for them. She said if Mac,my old boy contracted parvo it would be likely to kill him - so vaccinate I did. how can this parvo be any worse then any other time unless it is a new strain in which case the current vaccination would not be any good against it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 We have been having a parvo outbreak around here which for the first time ever that anyone knows of is killing dogs that are vaccinated but are under 12 months of age. Mainly under 6 months. All of the puppies I have heard about ahve had their puppy vaccinations at the recommended ages and are past the time when full immunity should occur. they are varying breeds and cross breeds. All we can summise is that it is a slightly different strain. So far no dogs over the age of 12 months have contracted it, but there may be some I haven't heard about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westiemum Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 The honest answer is that I'm not really sure. I assumed by calling it 'particularly nasty' she's implying a mutated/different strain or worse than usual virus that is around at the moment (afterall, virus' do mutate). She made the point that old dogs could be particularly vulnerable. I understand that vaccination is not 100% effective, and is less effective against a new/different strain. But it still gives dogs a fighting chance if they are exposed to a different strain. If its the difference between a dead unvaccinated dog and a sick vaccinated dog with increased chance of recovery, I'll take the sick vaccinated dog every time. I trust my vet implicitly and have learnt that if she is being more insistent than usual (as she was yesterday) that I should listen carefully. She explained about this really nasty parvo which is around at the moment and that if I want to continue taking them to public parks, and given they are all otherwise perfectly healthy then vaccinating is wise and should be no problem for them. She said if Mac,my old boy contracted parvo it would be likely to kill him - so vaccinate I did. how can this parvo be any worse then any other time unless it is a new strain in which case the current vaccination would not be any good against it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westiemum Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Hmn... Yep OSS, thats certainly the impression I got from my vet on wednesday too - except I think her remember saying its not confined to puppies here. Hence my caution. My friends from Mount Barker in the Adelaide Hills, their 11 year old westie girl is very disabled from neosporosis and has just started using a doggie wheelchair. This parasite is really rare here and no-one can work out where she picked it up from... its genuinely scarey. So I figure it just pays to be careful with these nasties - they can be around where and when you never expect them. And as the vet said being in the (upmarket) eastern suburbs doesn't make us exempt. We have been having a parvo outbreak around here which for the first time ever that anyone knows of is killing dogs that are vaccinated but are under 12 months of age. Mainly under 6 months. All of the puppies I have heard about ahve had their puppy vaccinations at the recommended ages and are past the time when full immunity should occur. they are varying breeds and cross breeds. All we can summise is that it is a slightly different strain. So far no dogs over the age of 12 months have contracted it, but there may be some I haven't heard about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 The honest answer is that I'm not really sure. I assumed by calling it 'particularly nasty' she's implying a mutated/different strain or worse than usual virus that is around at the moment (afterall, virus' do mutate). She made the point that old dogs could be particularly vulnerable. I understand that vaccination is not 100% effective, and is less effective against a new/different strain. But it still gives dogs a fighting chance if they are exposed to a different strain. If its the difference between a dead unvaccinated dog and a sick vaccinated dog with increased chance of recovery, I'll take the sick vaccinated dog every time. fair enough :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris the Rebel Wolf Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 What an interesting thread! I had heard of titre tests but never really understood their significance before. I wonder what the availability of titre testing is here in my city... will have to ask a few of the local vets I think. I just posted some details on easier titre testing in another health thread here. I've been looking around for an easier, more effective $ solution. Link at all? Very interested in learning more about this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris the Rebel Wolf Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 I also believe that if a vaccinated (adult) dog gets Parvo, then it likely would have regardless of whether you vaccinated it triennially, annually or even weekly. That is a very interesting statement to me. Have you (Or others in the vet industry, open question) seen many already vaccinated adult dogs come in with parvo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirty Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 My dogs and cats get their initial vaccs, then a booster at 15mths and then every 3 years. I work in a vet clinic (but low risk) so I will continue to do the triennial vaccs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rysup Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 My dogs get their puppy shots, a booster after 12 months and that is all. I have a 16 year old, and 14 year old who both have had this regime, so I have been doing it a long time now. The 16 year old was the catalyst for this- he had terrible reactions to vaccines, so I decided enough was enough and have never looked back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I also believe that if a vaccinated (adult) dog gets Parvo, then it likely would have regardless of whether you vaccinated it triennially, annually or even weekly. That is a very interesting statement to me. Have you (Or others in the vet industry, open question) seen many already vaccinated adult dogs come in with parvo? I haven't, but then again in my 6 years of nursing I've never seen a case of parvo - I don't even know what 'that smell' is yet! That was probably a broad statement to make, but I was referring to the parvo strain we vaccinate against. If a dog doesn't seroconvert a vaccine as an adult, I'm just not sure it will if you keep on vaccinating it? But that's just my belief and I'm definitely no scientist! There are still dogs that can contract parvo after a vaccine, but is that because it's a slightly different strain or because the dog no longer has antibodies to the virus? I don't know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inevitablue Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 (edited) What an interesting thread! I had heard of titre tests but never really understood their significance before. I wonder what the availability of titre testing is here in my city... will have to ask a few of the local vets I think. I just posted some details on easier titre testing in another health thread here. I've been looking around for an easier, more effective $ solution. Link at all? Very interested in learning more about this topic. http://www.biogal.co.il/biogal/Biogals-e-News/71/ There is an Australian distributor and as I ask around more, there are a number of vets in Australia who are using the kits. My vet didn't know the kits were available, and loves the idea. I think he has ordered quite a few and is going to make it a standard offering to owners. I'm waiting to hear back from a vet in Vic that is doing his own calibration test. Comparing the results from the WA lab, to what the kit shows. (damn, wish I was the distributor for the kits Potentially the use of them in Australia, with the right marketing, could be huge!) Edited November 19, 2011 by Inevitablue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I have an 11 year old and I haven't vaccinated her for about 6 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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