Picking German Shepherd Puppy From Litter.

[NewGsdOwner]

Greetings!

First time poster here. I am purchasing a male short-coat GSD pup from a good breeder in Canberra. I have researched the kennel and had good recommendations from friends and am happy with the breeder. My last GSD died in 2005, he was 13 years old, and it took me a while to get over him. I have moved into a new house, and think it's time I get a new puppy. I have the option of choosing out of three short-coated males, and my question is, I want a puppy that is similar in looks to my old boy Maverick, he was a dark pigmented boy with a dark mask and was a big boned dog. My question is, are there any signs I can look for in the pups to determine the pigment they will have? I absolutely love the dark mask! I have heard to check for black spots on the tounge as well as dark areas on the toes and feet. The pups are now 4 weeks old, and I will visit them in two weeks, and then pick them up two weeks later when they are 8 weeks old. Regardless of what the pup looks like, I will still love him. The parents of the puppies are registered and breed surveyed dogs with the father being a dark German Import called Vegas Von Dongmiran (not sure if anybody has heard of him). I have let the breeder know that I am after a dark male, and she said that it is hard to determine, and it's a gamble, but hopefully I'll have a better indication as I go and visit the pups. If anybody could give me some signs to look for and tips in terms of dark pigment and dark masking around the face, I would really appreciate it. I know it is asking a lot, but if I could have a puppy look similar to my old male, it would just make me feel good.

Regards;

Thomas. :D

[kelpiekaye]

Greetings!

First time poster here. I am purchasing a male short-coat GSD pup from a good breeder in Canberra. I have researched the kennel and had good recommendations from friends and am happy with the breeder. My last GSD died in 2005, he was 13 years old, and it took me a while to get over him. I have moved into a new house, and think it's time I get a new puppy. I have the option of choosing out of three short-coated males, and my question is, I want a puppy that is similar in looks to my old boy Maverick, he was a dark pigmented boy with a dark mask and was a big boned dog. My question is, are there any signs I can look for in the pups to determine the pigment they will have? I absolutely love the dark mask! I have heard to check for black spots on the tounge as well as dark areas on the toes and feet. The pups are now 4 weeks old, and I will visit them in two weeks, and then pick them up two weeks later when they are 8 weeks old. Regardless of what the pup looks like, I will still love him. The parents of the puppies are registered and breed surveyed dogs with the father being a dark German Import called Vegas Von Dongmiran (not sure if anybody has heard of him). I have let the breeder know that I am after a dark male, and she said that it is hard to determine, and it's a gamble, but hopefully I'll have a better indication as I go and visit the pups. If anybody could give me some signs to look for and tips in terms of dark pigment and dark masking around the face, I would really appreciate it. I know it is asking a lot, but if I could have a puppy look similar to my old male, it would just make me feel good.

Regards;

Thomas. :D

What do the parents look like? The breeder would have more idea than anyone. Have they done this mating before and what were the results? Dosnt matter what his colouring ends up you will love him anyway. I had a chocolate kelpie bitch that I lost suddenly, my next kelpie is a red girl and the colour didnt come into it. They are all individuals. Good luck and enjoy your new pup.

[sandgrubber]

1) Be clear what you want the pup for. Companion? Guardian? Competition? etc.

2) Talk with breeder, who is probably going to have a large role in determining which pup you get. Make sure he/she understands what you are looking for and make sure you are not the last person picking up a puppy. Discuss the 'which puppy' question with the breeder.

3) Read up a little on temperament screening and try a few tests on the pup you and the breeder agree on.

I am intolerant of HA and DA, and biddability is important to me. I've been told to hold the young pup upside down in a cradling secure hold. If the pup fights, it's not likely to bond well with people and is likely to be willful. If it looks you right in the eye and seems happy, it's likely to be sweet tempered and bond well. I also watch how the pup interacts with his/her siblings . . . and go for the 'medium' range between aggressive and passive. I've found these tests works for me . . . but I'm not an expert. I hope others will add their own favorite screening routines.

[minimiss]

You could also try sitting near the puppies and see which one is most intrigued by you and seems to pay you the most attention. Now I don't necessarily think this is the most 'scientific' approach or if it's actually even been a proven method.. But I know a few people who have done this and their dogs seem to be a perfect loyal match..

[WreckitWhippet]

The OP wants to know about looking for pigment and colour.

Look for black nails, and the darkest pigment you can find around the lips and eyes. Avoid those with any areas of pink and go for the pups that are already filled in.

Masks will already be showing, as will black in the coat. A pup/dog with dark eyes , will give the impression of a darker face. At six weeks it's a little harder to look at eyes, but select the darkest eyes you can.

The breeder has already stated that it can be difficult. I think they best you can do, once you are happy with the temperament, is to choose the darkest pup and cross your fingers.

[Odin-Genie]

I've been told to hold the young pup upside down in a cradling secure hold. If the pup fights, it's not likely to bond well with people and is likely to be willful.

I was told the same thing. My elkhound, when he was a puppy, would never ever let anyone hold him upside down. He would squirm, wriggle and struggle. He was also extremely wilful (still is to a certain extent).

However, he is the most affectionate dog I could have owned. There is this incredible bond he has with both my OH and I and seems to know instinctively how we are feeling. And he likes people and bonds well with my friends and relatives. If I had to go back a thousand times, he would still be the puppy I would choose.

[Heidley]

It is very much a gamble regarding this. Vegas is a nice dark boy himself and is passing this on to his offspring- however you need to keep the motherlines in mind too. I agree with Pav Lova, look for dark facial pigment nose, around the eyes etc.

[gsdog2]

1) Be clear what you want the pup for. Companion? Guardian? Competition? etc.

2) Talk with breeder, who is probably going to have a large role in determining which pup you get. Make sure he/she understands what you are looking for and make sure you are not the last person picking up a puppy. Discuss the 'which puppy' question with the breeder.

3) Read up a little on temperament screening and try a few tests on the pup you and the breeder agree on.

I am intolerant of HA and DA, and biddability is important to me. I've been told to hold the young pup upside down in a cradling secure hold. If the pup fights, it's not likely to bond well with people and is likely to be willful. If it looks you right in the eye and seems happy, it's likely to be sweet tempered and bond well. I also watch how the pup interacts with his/her siblings . . . and go for the 'medium' range between aggressive and passive. I've found these tests works for me . . . but I'm not an expert. I hope others will add their own favorite screening routines.

Volhard test is another way of screening

[bianca.a]

Miss Molly at 9 weeks

And now at 2 years (forget the dodgy ears )

Black and Tans seem to lighten a lot as they grow out of puppyhood in my experience.

[Vehs]

Yeah parents would be a good bet - D was very dark as a little pup and now look at him! His black is nearly all gone!

2 months, 2 months, 3 years, 9 years

[Miss Danni]

Vegas is a dark, well pigmented dog and he generally is passing that to his offspring, most of whom are still young. His mother does not have a dark, full mask, but she did as a younger dog.

What is the mother of the pups like? Has she older progeny that you can see and assess their pigmentation?

Some GSD lines will get more mask as they age and others will lose it as they mature, so you need to know the lines. Rely somewhat on the breeder, she should know her lines and have some idea about Vegas.

[Nekhbet]

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=576839&p=progeny-pictures

shows you Vegas' sons/daughters. Black and tans should retain the colour unless their lines wash out as they grow.

I would be more worried about health and temperament then colour especially if you're not showing. Puppies usually will retain some personality traits so if it's a pushy bitey dog you in all probability will have a harder dog. I would never purchase a shy, sooky pup.

[Fordogs]

If I was you I wouldn't turn anyone's baby puppy upside down I would be furious if some one did that to my puppy.

Just go inside with the puppies, sit down on the grass, give them a few minutes and they will be all over you. Bet you don't sit for long though those little teeth are sharp .

Don't try to replicate your old dog, this puppy will be very different.

The Vegas progeny have fantastic temperaments so you won't be unhappy there and from what I have seen the pigment is usually excellent but as others have said look at mum because the stud dog can't cover everything.

Have lots of fun choosing and we want pics.

[NewGsdOwner]

The OP wants to know about looking for pigment and colour.

Look for black nails, and the darkest pigment you can find around the lips and eyes. Avoid those with any areas of pink and go for the pups that are already filled in.

Masks will already be showing, as will black in the coat. A pup/dog with dark eyes , will give the impression of a darker face. At six weeks it's a little harder to look at eyes, but select the darkest eyes you can.

The breeder has already stated that it can be difficult. I think they best you can do, once you are happy with the temperament, is to choose the darkest pup and cross your fingers.

Thanks for your reply Pav Lova! Have you got experience with GSD's? So black nails, and dark colouring around the lips and eyes should be what I look for? I will try and take photos and post them up in this thread in two weeks time, perhaps that will make it easier for people to comment. Appreciate the tips!

[NewGsdOwner]

It is very much a gamble regarding this. Vegas is a nice dark boy himself and is passing this on to his offspring- however you need to keep the motherlines in mind too. I agree with Pav Lova, look for dark facial pigment nose, around the eyes etc.

Heidley, the motherlines are very good with Uras Von Trafalga being the grandfather. Uras provides very good pigment to his progeny as I have heard and seen personally. Have you encountered any Vegas progeny yourself? The only ones I have seen are all very young, so I can't get a good assessment through that. So dark facial p[igment, dark nose, and eyes are what I should be looking for! Thanks for your input, if you have any other recommendations I'd appreciate it.

Thomas!

[NewGsdOwner]

1) Be clear what you want the pup for. Companion? Guardian? Competition? etc.

2) Talk with breeder, who is probably going to have a large role in determining which pup you get. Make sure he/she understands what you are looking for and make sure you are not the last person picking up a puppy. Discuss the 'which puppy' question with the breeder.

3) Read up a little on temperament screening and try a few tests on the pup you and the breeder agree on.

I am intolerant of HA and DA, and biddability is important to me. I've been told to hold the young pup upside down in a cradling secure hold. If the pup fights, it's not likely to bond well with people and is likely to be willful. If it looks you right in the eye and seems happy, it's likely to be sweet tempered and bond well. I also watch how the pup interacts with his/her siblings . . . and go for the 'medium' range between aggressive and passive. I've found these tests works for me . . . but I'm not an expert. I hope others will add their own favorite screening routines.

Volhard test is another way of screening

Thanks for that Volhard test link gsdog2, it looks very interesting, and I will make sure to research it before I pick the little guy up. By looking at your picture, your dog seems to have a nice dark mask. It looks beautiful. Is there anything you saw as a puppy, that indicated he would have a good mask, or was it just pure luck?

[NewGsdOwner]

Miss Molly at 9 weeks

And now at 2 years (forget the dodgy ears )

Black and Tans seem to lighten a lot as they grow out of puppyhood in my experience.

Hi Bianca, your girl is gorgeous, I bet you're very proud of her. I am quite suprised at the loss of pigment. Thanks for your input!

[NewGsdOwner]

Yeah parents would be a good bet - D was very dark as a little pup and now look at him! His black is nearly all gone!

2 months, 2 months, 3 years, 9 years

Are you sure that is a dog, it looks more like a horse! he is huge! the parents of my pup are both pretty well pigmented, especially the father, so hopefully I can use some of the tips in this thread. Were the parents of D big? I seriously haven't seen a GSD that big in a long time. He is very masculine. What are your thoughts on paw-size determining the full size of an adult in the future? Some people don't like big GSD's, but the bigger the better I say! :D Thanks for your response!

[NewGsdOwner]

Vegas is a dark, well pigmented dog and he generally is passing that to his offspring, most of whom are still young. His mother does not have a dark, full mask, but she did as a younger dog.

What is the mother of the pups like? Has she older progeny that you can see and assess their pigmentation?

Some GSD lines will get more mask as they age and others will lose it as they mature, so you need to know the lines. Rely somewhat on the breeder, she should know her lines and have some idea about Vegas.

Hi Miss Danni, and thanks for your reply. Have you encountered any Vegas progeny, or have you used him in your breeding program, you seem to have a lot of knowledge regarding him. The mother has no progeny as this is her first litter, I know the mother has Yacko VomHoltkamper See and Uras Von Trafalga in her pedigree, and she is a medium pigmented dog. Have you seen any older progeny from Vegas, and what is your opinion on dark toes/feet, dark eyes, nose, and lips as an indication for future pigmentation? Cheers! :D

[NewGsdOwner]

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=576839&p=progeny-pictures

shows you Vegas' sons/daughters. Black and tans should retain the colour unless their lines wash out as they grow.

I would be more worried about health and temperament then colour especially if you're not showing. Puppies usually will retain some personality traits so if it's a pushy bitey dog you in all probability will have a harder dog. I would never purchase a shy, sooky pup.

Hi Nekhbet and thanks for your reply. From what I have heard both parents have good temperements, a friend of mine who is getting a female from the same litter has visited the puppies, and has been very pleased with their temperements, but I do agree puppies give good indications of their future personalities. I'm not sure whether my old boy was a hard dog, he was a very good guard dog, and was very protective, yet very loyal, is this what you mean by hard dog? Any other information would be appreciated. Cheers!