matt1wt Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 I have watched the bbc documentaries on pure bred dogs, and I have also read some of the policies of kennel clubs here in australia and usa and uk, and it seems to me that if a breeder wanted to quit the showring after watching this and take up breeding for their original purpose, he or she cannot do this unless they quit the kennel clubs, because one the a points you sign and promise to do is bred to the standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 I'll bite My dogs are perfectly capable of performing what they were originally bred to do, whilst being bred to the ANKC standard but unfortunately they aren't allowed to hunt deer etc anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souff Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 I have watched the bbc documentaries on pure bred dogs, and I have also read some of the policies of kennel clubs here in australia and usa and uk, and it seems to me that if a breeder wanted to quit the showring after watching this and take up breeding for their original purpose, he or she cannot do this unless they quit the kennel clubs, because one the a points you sign and promise to do is bred to the standard. Matt, Is this new news? Which breed standard is troubling you? Souff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 My dogs also can and do do what they were originally bred for as well as being ANKC registered and they also compete in dogs ports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyValley Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 My breed has close to 600 dual field and show champions in the USA. Both my dog and the other Brittany I handle in the show ring work in the field - we actually need the Kennel Club to run the Utility Gundog field trials for us ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 There are many interpretations of a breed standard ;) In some breeds, it is very obvious that working line breeders and show breeders have very different interpretations of the breed standard. In other breeds like RV and Rebanne mentioned; the interpretations of breed standard are similar and the dogs look much the same whether bred for show or work and many of these dogs are dual field/show champions etc Most dogs bred for working purposes are not Kennel Club registered, they may be registered with a working council or equivalent but they aren't generally registered with the national kennel club. Obviously true working dogs are going to have more variation in looks because they're never bred for looks alone and working ability and attitude often over rides perfect conformation. Although the basic structure must be there otherwise the dog will quickly become unsound, but things like coat texture, colour, height etc are not as important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Is this thread news? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
becks Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 In the UK we are not members of the KC and so can breed whatever we chose to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 No point in telling them your system is different to ours Becks - believe me its another one of those things like ground hog day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 My dogs are perfectly capable of performing their original function - which has fortunately been ILLEGAL for more than 175 years. Do you actually know what you are talking about or just looking for a bite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Nicely said, Sandra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 I have watched the bbc documentaries on pure bred dogs, and I have also read some of the policies of kennel clubs here in australia and usa and uk, and it seems to me that if a breeder wanted to quit the showring after watching this and take up breeding for their original purpose, he or she cannot do this unless they quit the kennel clubs, because one the a points you sign and promise to do is bred to the standard. The big deal about purebred dogs over any other dog is the ability you get to be able to predict its management and its characteristics. If everyone stopped breeding to a standard then in a few generations we would have generic dogs which are less able to be predictible. You dont have to show your dogs and you dont have to breed to extremes of the standard. Showing gives people the ability to have an experienced qualified judge determine if the dog is as good as its seen to be by its owner or breeder. How it does inthe show ring is only ONE of the things used to determine its suitability for breeding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacqui835 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 In the countries that my breeds were developed, they were not supposed to be bred without having had their working ability certified. This does not take place in Australia, and in fact there are states trying to make the sports used to assess working ability (schutzhund etc) illegal. It is unfortunate, but now that I have started spending more time with people who are also interested in utilising the working abilities of these dogs, they have informed me that you really can't expect much from dogs from show lines (this is for the working german breeds only - I am sure there are differences between breeds). It is very sad to see owners coming with their working breeds from show lines and not being able to complete the tasks, watching the dogs hit their walls so early on. In the case of dobermans and rottweilers, there are very few even from working line breeders capable of achieving anything close to their forefathers, they never seem to place in any competitions these days. It makes me very sad that I have rocked up to a club full of some of the most passionate and knowledgeable people in the working dog world (in Australia at least), and they have looked at my doberman cross and described him as more of a doberman than the purebreeds they deal with. But of course they said to me, I can get all my titles and pass with 100 and yet even if I beat the pure dogs in a national competition, I would not walk away with the trophy. I love my dog but I wish he was pure doberman - I don't think there's ever been or ever will be a better breed. Unfortunately though I think we may have gotten a little lost somewhere along the way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 The Australian registered breeders do a fine job in breeding dogs , in my breed of interest, who more than happily do exactly what they were bred to do for hundreds of years. Being close companion dogs to the monks in the Tibetan monasteries. Give a p/b tibetan spaniel a welcoming home with lots of mutual love....and it'll do what comes naturally. Here's one 'working' hard in its original role: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacqui835 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 The Australian registered breeders do a fine job in breeding dogs , in my breed of interest, who more than happily do exactly what they were bred to do for hundreds of years. Being close companion dogs to the monks in the Tibetan monasteries. Give a p/b tibetan spaniel a welcoming home with lots of mutual love....and it'll do what comes naturally. Here's one 'working' hard in its original role: My sister's papillons are another great example of a breed that still does a wonderful job at their original function. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 [ My sister's papillons are another great example of a breed that still does a wonderful job at their original function. I found a pic of one, leaning against a French lady's skirts, just being her loved pet. Tough work, but some dogs juat have to do it. And still do! http://www.google.com.au/imgres?q=Papillon+history+as+a+lap+dog&hl=en&client=safari&sa=X&rls=en&biw=974&bih=603&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=ISo9DTac-mLR2M:&imgrefurl=http://www.dog-paw-print.com/toy-dog-breeds.html&docid=kHjxyQzCSlcmJM&imgurl=http://www.dog-paw-print.com/image-files/Toy%252520Dog%252520Breeds/toy-dog-breeds-papillon-in%252520painting.jpg&w=514&h=767&ei=NofATtSyDOjomAXXzfWvBA&zoom=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souff Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I have watched the bbc documentaries on pure bred dogs, and I have also read some of the policies of kennel clubs here in australia and usa and uk, and it seems to me that if a breeder wanted to quit the showring after watching this and take up breeding for their original purpose, he or she cannot do this unless they quit the kennel clubs, because one the a points you sign and promise to do is bred to the standard. I am still waiting Matt...... Why do I need to leave a kennel club to breed good quality purebred dogs? If I do that who is going to record and authenticate the dogs' pedigrees? Me? Oh no, I dont think so .... Souff might be tempted to add in a few grand champions that were never really there or a few storybook or Disney characters to the names of non-existent dogs .... you never know what might end up in there if Souff was inventing a few generations on a pedigree .... What am I going to use to tell me what I should be aiming for? What am I aiming for if the breed standard is not the bench mark? Aw, come on, Matt, come back and talk to Souffie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerojath Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowenhart Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerRottweiler Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 In the countries that my breeds were developed, they were not supposed to be bred without having had their working ability certified. This does not take place in Australia, and in fact there are states trying to make the sports used to assess working ability (schutzhund etc) illegal. It is unfortunate, but now that I have started spending more time with people who are also interested in utilising the working abilities of these dogs, they have informed me that you really can't expect much from dogs from show lines (this is for the working german breeds only - I am sure there are differences between breeds). It is very sad to see owners coming with their working breeds from show lines and not being able to complete the tasks, watching the dogs hit their walls so early on. In the case of dobermans and rottweilers, there are very few even from working line breeders capable of achieving anything close to their forefathers, they never seem to place in any competitions these days. It makes me very sad that I have rocked up to a club full of some of the most passionate and knowledgeable people in the working dog world (in Australia at least), and they have looked at my doberman cross and described him as more of a doberman than the purebreeds they deal with. But of course they said to me, I can get all my titles and pass with 100 and yet even if I beat the pure dogs in a national competition, I would not walk away with the trophy. I love my dog but I wish he was pure doberman - I don't think there's ever been or ever will be a better breed. Unfortunately though I think we may have gotten a little lost somewhere along the way... Too true. I find it amazing that the working ability of dogs is being completely ignored, so long as they have 'strong heads' and 'correct angulations' right? Interesting reading below: Jakob Köpf "I must mention one dog in particular, Hackel. he was the best rottweiler that I have ever known. Unfortunately I was not his breeder, but i did have the luck to own him for ten years. He was smarter than any dog that I ever had. he´s nerves was steel, he had his total freedom, did everything right, was frightened by nothing and yet was very goodnatured so that everyone could touch him. If nessessary he attacked immediately, but never seriosly hurt anyone. he sired the greatest number of Rottweilers and did so the breed great benefit. My wish: another Hackel to my life. He does not have to be handsome as as the Köhlerwald dogs, but he would have to bring a rottweiler`s character like Hackel`s. It is possible that other work breeds are better in this or that characterictic, but in stediness, courage and aggressiveness, none is superior to the ROTTWEILER!." ( In June 1957 ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now