klink Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 I thought that I would post this subject to gauge the type on response one could expect from fellow ,breeders/ exhibitors in obtaining support to reverse the current ban on tail-shortening in the many breeds affected by this ban. As you are aware the banning of this procedure is not in place in New Zealand as it was not considered to cause pain etc. when done by banding at three days old by suitibably qualified people. Thoughts please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacqui835 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Well I've seen the procedure performed on terriers and they certainly didn't seem to experience any pain, they were just unhappy about being away from their mothers for a second. And it was lucky my terrier had his tail docked, because he spent a good portion of his time down rabbit burrows... I watched a documentary the other day about the castrating of male pigs - to let them develop properly without growth hormones they live beyond puberty and so wouldn't be tasty unless castrated. The pigs hated being picked up, and squealed like crazy but the procedure was done with no anesthetic and there was no recovery time - they were good to go and stopped crying as soon as they were put down. The pigs then spent the rest of their lives grazing in an apple orchard - free range and in natural family groups - I have never seen such happy pigs. So I do not believe that tail docking is a cruel or painful procedure. My current dog is a doberman, and I don't mind his tail - I've gotten used to the look now and so if I had another, I wouldn't remove the tail. But I don't see why people shouldn't be allowed to choose one way or the other. If I ever decided to own another terrier (though I don't think I will because Dobermans are the be all and end all for me now) I would want the tail docked to remove the potential for injury - even if you don't plan to hunt rabbits if your terrier sees a rabbit he will follow it down the hole, and rabbits are pretty common in Australia these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dxenion Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 I don't support tail shortening (no matter the method) unless done for medical reasons. If the dog is born with a long tail, I do not support shortening it for a cosmetic or any other purpose. For me, it has nothing to do with doing it when the pup's pain receptors have not fully formed. I am not comfortable with the idea of altering the look of the dog for historical purposes associated with the breed - the main reason usually cited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest donatella Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Why inflict any form of amputation purely for cosmetic purpose and put a dog at risk of infection? Leave the ban I say, tails are gorgeous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poodle Mum Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Anyone who has ever held a puppy whislt its tail has been cut off...knows that they DO have pain receptors. I own a previously docked breed and I am quite happy wil their tail......even though my boy does have a crappy, very gay tail which would not be evident if it was docked I feel uncomfortable when asked to sign a petition about allowing tail banding as I don't feel we should be docking tails. But......go to any dog show and check out how many natural bob tailed individuals there are ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 I thought that I would post this subject to gauge the type on response one could expect from fellow ,breeders/ exhibitors in obtaining support to reverse the current ban on tail-shortening in the many breeds affected by this ban. As you are aware the banning of this procedure is not in place in New Zealand as it was not considered to cause pain etc. when done by banding at three days old by suitibably qualified people. Thoughts please. You have my full support. I would love to see those experienced breeders able to dock again but I cannot see that happening any time soon. I do however think there is a chance that the current petition in NSW, calling for vets to be able to dock again at birth, getting support and possibly being successful. I will NEVER own another dog, of a traditionally docked breed, unless it has been done. I've held numerous day old litters, while they have been docked by an experienced breeder, she had it over and done with in a flash, no mess, no screaming and pups were straight back on the bitch to suckle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 I see no purpose in cutting bits off healthy pups who are born as nature intended unless it is for a very good reason. Cosmetic does not qualify, neither does it may injure its tail. Tail is an extension of the spine. The dog knows its tail is there. If it keeps knocking things over or whacking people legs too bad. If it hurts its tail & it needs amputation because of this no problem. A clumsy dog may keep banging its head but you dont cut that off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxagirl Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 I support docking- working at a kennels I have seen so many injured tails of previously docked breeds. Would love this ban to be reversed, but dont know if it can be done now Maybe you should add a poll to this topic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 The ban won't be reversed so no amount pf posting on DOL about it will make it happen. It's banned in most European countries, parts of Canada, restricted in the UK, and it's only a matter of time before the US starts banning it. Hope they ban ear cropping at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 I have never had a traditionally docked breed (well except for the mandatory child hood Cocker Spaniel ) but I totally support the right of breeders to dock or have the pups docked by a vet if that is their choice to do so. I would also totally support any breeder who chose not to dock - your puppies your choice. Personally I dislike the look of Rottweilers and Dobermans with tails and the terrier ring is an odd looking place these days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest donatella Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 I think its the poster Grumpette here who has gorgeous fully tailed Rottweilers, I think they look much better with tails, glorious animals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 I totally support the right of breeders to dock or have the pups docked by a vet if that is their choice to do so. I would also totally support any breeder who chose not to dock - your puppies your choice. Brava, Sandra! I fully support an organised, level headed campaign to have the ban reversed (but sorry to come across as defeatist, I cant see it getting anywhere at this point in time. I would still support the campaign, though) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Hope they ban ear cropping at the same time. Nope. I agree there should be the availability of choice for breeders for tail docking and cropping. If you want it done then at least make the law 'under veterinary supervision' etc. We still remove dew claws so I dont see what the issue is. You should see what we do to farm animals with no anaesthetic. Any random person can go into a store, purchase a bag of rubber rings and an applicator, or a nice big knife and away we go! Apparently they dont deserve the same rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 "Your puppies - your choice" is a very illogical argument. I would not support a reverse of the ban for most breeds. I would not support unqualified people docking dogs at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RottnBullies Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 (edited) I thought that I would post this subject to gauge the type on response one could expect from fellow ,breeders/ exhibitors in obtaining support to reverse the current ban on tail-shortening in the many breeds affected by this ban. As you are aware the banning of this procedure is not in place in New Zealand as it was not considered to cause pain etc. when done by banding at three days old by suitibably qualified people. Thoughts please. You have my full support. I would love to see those experienced breeders able to dock again but I cannot see that happening any time soon. I do however think there is a chance that the current petition in NSW, calling for vets to be able to dock again at birth, getting support and possibly being successful. I will NEVER own another dog, of a traditionally docked breed, unless it has been done. I've held numerous day old litters, while they have been docked by an experienced breeder, she had it over and done with in a flash, no mess, no screaming and pups were straight back on the bitch to suckle +1 Is there a link to petition please ETA: I just realized It's probably not that kind of petition where you sign Lol Edited November 13, 2011 by RottnBullies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Hope they ban ear cropping at the same time. Nope. I agree there should be the availability of choice for breeders for tail docking and cropping. If you want it done then at least make the law 'under veterinary supervision' etc. We still remove dew claws so I dont see what the issue is. You should see what we do to farm animals with no anaesthetic. Any random person can go into a store, purchase a bag of rubber rings and an applicator, or a nice big knife and away we go! Apparently they dont deserve the same rights. I don't think the procedures done to livestock are to make them look "nicer". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klink Posted November 13, 2011 Author Share Posted November 13, 2011 I see no purpose in cutting bits off healthy pups who are born as nature intended unless it is for a very good reason. Cosmetic does not qualify, neither does it may injure its tail. Tail is an extension of the spine. The dog knows its tail is there. If it keeps knocking things over or whacking people legs too bad. If it hurts its tail & it needs amputation because of this no problem. A clumsy dog may keep banging its head but you dont cut that off. I assume by your comments, that it should also not be allowed to remove xtra "bits " eg. fingers toes etc on new born babies a procedure done frequently at hospitals today as they were born as "nature intended ". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCheekyMonster Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Why inflict any form of amputation purely for cosmetic purpose and put a dog at risk of infection? Leave the ban I say, tails are gorgeous. Please someone correct me if I am wrong but I think the cosmetics of docking are on the bottom of the list.....there are other reasons why some breeds get their tails docked im sure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 I assume by your comments, that it should also not be allowed to remove xtra "bits " eg. fingers toes etc on new born babies a procedure done frequently at hospitals today as they were born as "nature intended ". Is that one of the points the current campaigners are using? Care to post a linky to this petition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisovar Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 I would fully support any attempt to have the ban removed, it is not cruel or inhumane when done properly. I often wonder how those who cry "leave them as nature intended" feel about ripping out the reproductive organs of baby pups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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