Cheshunt Archer Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Hi, A good friend of mine has 2 dogs, a 4yr old male english staffy and a 1 yr old female staffy x mastiff Can I get your opinions on the following situation... The dogs are kept inside everyday (sometimes up to 10hrs) with 3 cats, they are destroying furniture and items around the home. There is a large fenced yard but my friend says if he leaves them outside they will dig under the fence and escape. He does walk them once a day and gets them out to the beach on the weekends. But the issue is getting worse, the dogs are now fighting and getting injured. He has tried to seperate them at night but the female cries all night keeping them awake. My friend and his wife let the dogs sleep on their bed everynight, he is very 'soft' with them and the dogs get away with a lot but his wife is more strict. The animals from what I have seen climb on everything, the cats get on the kitchen bench and table, the dogs have a free run thru the house and basically do anything they want.. From what I have seen the dogs do not listen to him, they jump up on visitors and they do not know when to calm down, they are very hyperactive and easily excited. Can anyone suggest what is happening here and what solutions there are? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 basically from reading this - your friend has not much clue on how to understand/manage his dogs. he needs to fix the fences,or build a secure run , and pay a professional person to teach him what needs to be done in regards to why his dogs are doing what they're doing ..and show him how to manage them. I can't see this happening though... based on what you've written ... so any advice we give will remain just a suggestion His dogs are only behaving in a manner which brings them rewards ..and how they have been brought up. It's not their fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandybrush Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 he needs to harden up, set some rules that if the dogs break they receive a consequence eg. time out. if they are fighting they should be separated when there is no one home to supervise them IMO. do some training with them get a behaviourists advice and i agree with perse a run would be a good idea also like perse said if he is so soft and isnt askng the questions that you are then he really isnt interested in fixing it both dogs should be crate trained (ignore the crying, they will get over it) i think that would make it alot easier for them thats just a quick 2 cents worth of my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 both dogs should be crate trained Hmm.. "crate Training" to those who have no idea can mean the perfect control... ie: Lock the dogs in a crate when no one's home . NOT a suggestion I would make to anyone with no grounding in obedience training/responsible dog management, lest it be taken in entirely the wrong context. Anyone who has the knowledge/patience to correctly crate train dogs would not have dogs /cats behaving as we are led to believe these are . IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 10 hours in a crate is waaaaay too much on a regular basis. IF they were my dogs: i) Set some rules ii) Walk 2 x per day (even if it is a short walk, just to break things up) iii) Separate when I'm not there (because of the fighting) iv) TRaining of some sort to wear them out (2 x 5 mins clicker training) v) Do some structured activities with them (eg obedience, agility or flyball) on a weeknight. vi) Fix the fence and let them outside (or have a dog door) when out. I wouldn't leave an SBT inside for 10 hours a day - they are very active dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Can anyone suggest what is happening here and what solutions there are? Not really, 'cause it sounds like it's probably pretty complicated. :p My guess is there are several separate problems that may or may not be a result of a the same root cause. The first step is to implement NILIF (nothing in life is free). I think it can be dangerous to abruptly introduce negative consequences for behaviour. It amounts to a challenge. Who knows how the dogs will react? Even NILIF I would introduce gradually rather than all at once. A history of deference towards the dog is a recipe for disaster. The fighting is probably a whole other thing and if they really are seriously injuring each other I'd take it VERY seriously. Every time they fight they are getting upset and frightening each other and themselves and learning that life with the other dog is dangerous and distressing. They become more on guard, are more likely to strike out just in case they need to get in first, and there's a good chance the fights will get more violent. This is something that has to be sorted out sooner rather than later. If nothing else, he has to keep them separated so they can't fight with each other. If he can't or is not willing to do that, he should do the dogs a favour and rehome one now before there's only one dog left. By separated, I mean they should not even be able to see each other. They can still intimidate each other if they can see each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshunt Archer Posted November 11, 2011 Author Share Posted November 11, 2011 Can anyone suggest what is happening here and what solutions there are? Not really, 'cause it sounds like it's probably pretty complicated. :p My guess is there are several separate problems that may or may not be a result of a the same root cause. The first step is to implement NILIF (nothing in life is free). I think it can be dangerous to abruptly introduce negative consequences for behaviour. It amounts to a challenge. Who knows how the dogs will react? Even NILIF I would introduce gradually rather than all at once. A history of deference towards the dog is a recipe for disaster. The fighting is probably a whole other thing and if they really are seriously injuring each other I'd take it VERY seriously. Every time they fight they are getting upset and frightening each other and themselves and learning that life with the other dog is dangerous and distressing. They become more on guard, are more likely to strike out just in case they need to get in first, and there's a good chance the fights will get more violent. This is something that has to be sorted out sooner rather than later. If nothing else, he has to keep them separated so they can't fight with each other. If he can't or is not willing to do that, he should do the dogs a favour and rehome one now before there's only one dog left. By separated, I mean they should not even be able to see each other. They can still intimidate each other if they can see each other. Thanks for your input, your very correct in saying that it's complicated, they tend to treat the dogs (and cats) like humans. He always talks about how long it takes every morning before work to clean up the mess all the animals have made during the night. As well as 'hand feeding' every pet individually because they are fussy eaters. I honestly believe he has dug a big hole for himself. The male staffy won't eat food outside because thats where he is sent when in trouble, I looked after the male staffy for a few days and it refused to eat anything outside, even liver treats! he just submits and shakes when I tried to feed him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fox Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 The dogs are bored and lacking appropriate leadership and structure in their lives. If they're fighting they need to be separated, if they dig out then either the fences need to be fixed so they can't or they need to be in concreted runs. Give them training, exercise, rules, toys, things to do during the day and proper containment and there will be no issue - they're only Staffies for Christs sake. Not monsters! Don't like you chances though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fox Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Thanks for your input, your very correct in saying that it's complicated, they tend to treat the dogs (and cats) like humans. He always talks about how long it takes every morning before work to clean up the mess all the animals have made during the night. As well as 'hand feeding' every pet individually because they are fussy eaters. I honestly believe he has dug a big hole for himself. The male staffy won't eat food outside because thats where he is sent when in trouble, I looked after the male staffy for a few days and it refused to eat anything outside, even liver treats! he just submits and shakes when I tried to feed him. Dogs won't starve themselves, they'll eat when they are hungry. But hey, if you want to waste your time hand feeding them then why would they get up and look for it? How are they making mess during the night? Are they not toilet trained? Are they destroying things? Why not contain them (in a crate, pen or laundry) so that can't happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshunt Archer Posted November 11, 2011 Author Share Posted November 11, 2011 The dogs are bored and lacking appropriate leadership and structure in their lives. If they're fighting they need to be separated, if they dig out then either the fences need to be fixed so they can't or they need to be in concreted runs. Give them training, exercise, rules, toys, things to do during the day and proper containment and there will be no issue - they're only Staffies for Christs sake. Not monsters! Don't like you chances though... The dogs do need structure and leadership, my mate is doesn't seem to be the 'pack' leader. And between the 3 cats and 2 dogs at night there seems to be vomit and faeces to clean up in the morning, the cats have kitty litter and dogs have newspaper., He has mentioned recently about obedience training...lets hope it happens soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fox Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Eeek! If I spent all my mornings cleaning up crap and vomit from the house I don't think I'd want pets! Kitty litter belongs in the laundry and adult dogs certainly don't need newspaper laying around overnight. Crate overnight and take them out in the mornings, they can hold. Not sure why there's vomit though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshunt Archer Posted November 11, 2011 Author Share Posted November 11, 2011 I have a feeling that the vomit doesn't happen all the time but the impression I get is that it takes him 1 hour every morning to clean up and feed all the pets...to me thats ridiculous. As far as putting them in a crate....I don't think that will happen, they want both dogs to sleep on their bed everynight, the male weighs 22kg and the female isn't fully grown yet and she is already 25kg. I hope everyone doesn't mind me venting on this thread cos I have trouble talking to my friends about this topic, they get very defensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fox Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Imagine if he spent that hour training and exercising the dogs instead.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Poor dogs! The owners really need to lay down some rules and boundaries. The dogs needs to be kept separately when no one is able to supervise, otherwise they're just waiting for a serious or fatal accident to happen imo... It sounds like they aren't properly toilet trained? Why is there newspaper? They are both old enough to go outside or hold on overnight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 holy moly what a catastrophe. Honestly send him to www.leerburg.com to read up about pack structure and leadership, then have him book a session with a trainer ASAP, someone like Mark Singer. They need a reality check before someone gets injured or another animal is killed. Those dogs are bored, frustrated and from the sounds of it ready to kill each other from stress. Being too soft and depriving dogs of their natural needs like they are will have a great negative impact on the animals mental health, at least in the short term and probably long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MsKatie Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 My first thought was behaviourist and I would also reccomend Mark Singer. This sounds like a downward spiral Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 They really do need someone to sit them down and give them a 'talk'. I think Marks the right person for that http://caninetraining.com.au/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bully Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Accident waiting to happen IMO Hope they seek professional help ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 If they are unable or unwilling to seek professional help and fix the fences, I'd suggest rehoming one of the dogs (and not replacing it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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