Dog Park Rules / Law

[Simply Grand]

But dobes, what do you mean he wouldn't be ok with it? How do you think he would react? Or I guess what are you trying to avoid happening when you stop the other dog?

And any dog at all that gallopped up to you? Young, old, big, small?

I'm not saying you're wrong by yelling at them by any means, tho I'm not sure about kicking before any altercation has occurred, but each to their own I suppose. I'm just trying to understand.

Oh and I certainly don't let my dogs charge up to dogs being walked and I don't think they would anyway but they have done it as puppies when off leash.

Edited for clarity.

Edited November 11, 2011 by Saxonpup

[Remarkabull]

Any size dog. He has been attacked by little dogs that have come from nowhere and latched on to his back legs. All while walking along a street and him on lead. We have had large dogs approach with tails and heads held up as high as they can get them, usually entire males of mixed breeding, but definitely alot of bull breeds up here and I'm not going to risk him getting into a fight with something that could tear him apart.

When I first moved here I came across a dog fight in progress while out walking with my husband. I told him to take our dogs home while I ran to these 2 dogs to try and help. Both dogs were med size (one was a SBT and the other was a bull breed mix), the SBT had the other dog by the throat and had ripped a massive hole in it's neck. Both owners were standing there not doing much to try and stop the dogs (the owner of the SBT was telling off the man with the other dog because apparently it was all his fault). Anyway, I grabbed the back legs of the SBT and thankfully it was an older dog and was by this stage very tired so it let go. The young dog just wanted to get away from it and was relieved to be released and was not interested in fighting at all.

Apparently this started because the SBT was off lead and approached the other dog (who was on lead) and a fight broke out. The SBT owners swore black and blue that their dog had never done anything like this before and was always friendly with other dogs. TBH she seemed like a bogan dickhead who wouldn't know her ass from her elbow but hey maybe it was the first time her dog had done this? So how am I to know what dogs are safe to approach mine if they can change their behavior in an instant? I certainly don't want my dog torn apart by a larger, stronger dog and I also don't want my dog to hurt a dog smaller and weaker than him.

Just wanted to add that I saw this lady and her SBT a week later walking down the road, OFF LEAD. The dog it had attacked had sustained serious injuries that resulted in approx $2000 worth of vet bills.

I don't think my dog would attack if approached by another dog but he may growl or snap at them if the got in his face and this could cause a fight to start which is what I am trying to avoid happening in the first place!

[corvus]

How do I know if the dog that is galloping towards me is friendly or not?

Well, it's usually pretty obvious, I find. Friendly dogs are loose with tongues flapping around and ears back while they run. Unfriendly charging dogs have ears forward, tail stiff, hackles up, often teeth showing and growling or roaring. I think they carry their heads lower. I don't often see unfriendly dogs charging.

I'm not willing to risk it, hence I scream like a banshee. So far it has always worked and uncontrolled dogs have always backed away from us but if/when I come across one that continues to come at us I would kick it before it got close enough to physically touch my dog, I don't care if it is friendly.

Goodness me. If you can't read oncoming dogs, can you read your own? Does screaming like a banshee make your dog feel at ease? Maybe you should look at some books or dvds and learn a bit about dog body language so you don't have to be so scared when you're out walking your dog. Life is a lot more relaxing when you can read an oncoming dog. There's a Facebook group that looks at dog body language. Lots of photos and videos and everyone adds their interpretation. It's good practise identifying key signals, and informative.

[Remarkabull]

I can read them fine and that is why I'm yelling at them. The dogs that are running towards me are not under any control (usually owners are yelling at their dogs to no avail) and even if they appear friendly (which some of them do) I still don't want them jumping all over my dog and possibly having a fight start.

I am trying to protect my dog from the many people who don't have a clue about dog body language. To me it is obvious that my dog is not comfortable in being approached by strange dogs but unfortunately there are a lot of dogs and owners out there who think that because there dog is 'friendly' that it is fine to run up to any dog it wishes. If a fight broke out or my dog did bite their dog I am terrified that because my dog is a Dobe that he will be the one blamed and I will lose him.

Maybe if people had better fences, knew a little more about dogs etc then I wouldn't have to yell at them.

BTW I rarely do yell, only if the dog approaching is out of control/ignoring it's owner or looks like it's intentions are questionable.

My own dog has a great recall and doesn't approach other dogs when he is off lead, he listens to me and I have a fair bit of confidence in him but I don't know these other dogs and therefore I would rather prevent something from happening before it has a chance to.

[Simply Grand]

Thanks for answering so well dobes I think I've said on here before that I'm really lucky not to have seen real damage done between dogs as yet, you obviously have which must be terrifying. I do see your point.

I think our ACT system of basically dogs should always be leashed apart from designated dog areas (ie not roads, not walking paths, not family parks, play areas etc) is quite good as at least it is very clear what the responsibility is.

[dancinbcs]

What about dogs that are prone to getting anxious around other dogs but do not react aggressively?

easy, the rude owners of the rude dogs would say it shouldn't be there. My nervous old girl did love her walks but those rude dogs did have the potential to ruin it for her, hence my carrying a riding crop and using it. Off lead area near a river = free for all.

ETA I gave up walking this dog cause there were just too many idiots to contend with. She made do with runs with the greyhounds at the slipping track ;)

Hang on, does the above mean that you would walk your girl in an off lead area, and if another dog ran up to her to "say hello" (yes rude but with no aggression) you would hit the other dog with the riding crop?

I use some offlead areas but not "dog parks" unless there is no one else around. I carry a stock whip and cracking it usually deters any dogs from approaching but if they keep coming they get hit with the whip. I would like to point out that every dog that has ever run at my dogs over the years has been in full attack mode, I have had numerous dogs attacked by various breeds of different sizes so now I don't let any strange dog get anywhere near my dogs. I have never had an off lead dog approach my dogs in a friendly manner. Mine get to see plenty of dogs at shows and play with friends dogs but I will never again risk an unknown off lead dog getting close enough to attack one of mine.

[Greyt]

I can't help but feel that there are a bunch of very uptight owners on this thread whose past experiences are contributing to creating an atmosphere of anxiety where they are putting themselves and their dogs at risk.

Clearly some people should choose not to use off-lead areas instead of employing tactics which are provocative to dogs and humans.

[WreckitWhippet]

What about dogs that are prone to getting anxious around other dogs but do not react aggressively?

easy, the rude owners of the rude dogs would say it shouldn't be there. My nervous old girl did love her walks but those rude dogs did have the potential to ruin it for her, hence my carrying a riding crop and using it. Off lead area near a river = free for all.

ETA I gave up walking this dog cause there were just too many idiots to contend with. She made do with runs with the greyhounds at the slipping track ;)

Hang on, does the above mean that you would walk your girl in an off lead area, and if another dog ran up to her to "say hello" (yes rude but with no aggression) you would hit the other dog with the riding crop?

I know I would and dogs that run up to mine get the boot.

[Kavik]

I am also not OK with dogs rushing my dog, as normally this means they are not under control, friendly or not. A dog that is rushing full speed at you is not likely to then suddenly have manners when it arrives at your dog to greet your dog, but rather likely to be rude at best, or unfriendly at worst. A dog trotting up looking interested in meeting your dog is one thing, a dog bolting towards you full speed as soon as it sees you is quite another. My dog is OK with polite greetings but not OK at being rushed at full speed from a distance.

[Inevitablue]

Since when did people start thinking an offlead dog park means doggy playgroup?

Sure,if its busy then you are not going to get left alone, but if you cant keep your dog from running the full length of the dog park to get to the only other dog there, then keep it on a long line, get some help training it, or at the very least don't be offended if your dog is hunted away!

My dog's are friendly, but I might not always go to the park with the intent to have them play with other dogs, sometimes I like to go with the intent to have my dogs play offlead with me.

[Rebanne]

What about dogs that are prone to getting anxious around other dogs but do not react aggressively?

easy, the rude owners of the rude dogs would say it shouldn't be there. My nervous old girl did love her walks but those rude dogs did have the potential to ruin it for her, hence my carrying a riding crop and using it. Off lead area near a river = free for all.

ETA I gave up walking this dog cause there were just too many idiots to contend with. She made do with runs with the greyhounds at the slipping track ;)

Hang on, does the above mean that you would walk your girl in an off lead area, and if another dog ran up to her to "say hello" (yes rude but with no aggression) you would hit the other dog with the riding crop?

yes I would and did, it was a common walking track for everyone and dogs were allowed off lead if under effective control. In the end the idiots drove me out but everyone was allowed to walk there, dogs on lead, dogs off lead, Mums with babies in prams, older people out for a stroll. It was a walking track for everyone long beofre it became an area for dog to be let off lead.

What part of effective control do some of you people not get??

[Rebanne]

I can't help but feel that there are a bunch of very uptight owners on this thread whose past experiences are contributing to creating an atmosphere of anxiety where they are putting themselves and their dogs at risk.

Clearly some people should choose not to use off-lead areas instead of employing tactics which are provocative to dogs and humans.

clearly some people need to realise how rude they and their bloody dogs are and not let anything off lead that does not have a relaible recall.

Why should I be prevented from using a lovely walking track cause people can't control their dogs? Why should my slightly anxious girl be denied a nice walk by the river? Why should I be denied a nice walk by the river with my dog who loved those walks?

But we have been denied those pleasures by people who obviuosly think the same as you

[espinay2]

Lilli, I have had a similar problem in the past when I lived in town. We had a large area backing our suburb which was classed as an 'offlead' area by council. Huge area - basically a long wide strip (about two or three good sized house blocks wide) backing the length of the suburb. Most people were good and if their dogs were offlead would call their dogs to them when passing another dog (lots of room to pass). Some people, however, took the 'offlead' rule to be as you describe it and let their dogs have a free for all and barrel up to other dogs, even if they moved to the side to give them plenty of room. I had particular problems with two ladies who walked a border collie and a standard poodle. My Pyrs werent the issue - I had at the time as well a Dalmatian who had been attacked by a Border Collie as a pup and could be reactive if black dogs in particular rushed up to her. Introduced properly she was generally ok, but in the situation of a loose dog such as this running up to her (as happened when she was attacked), she was far from happy and prone to act first and ask questions later. I would ALWAYS do the same thing as you - call out to the owners to 'call your dog please!' Some were good and would comply (they got a 'thank you!' and often we would then stop to chat - and if the dogs were comfortable they would sometimes then get to say hello and possibly play), but not these two ladies in particular who would give those same arguments 'this is an offlead area', 'my dog is friendly'.

In the end I did call council to discuss the situation. Their take is that I was completely in the right, had acted appropriately by reqesting the owner call their dog, my dog was under effective control and the other owner was at fault. Still didnt make the situation easier or more pleasant and I still have concerns that even though I would be in the 'right', the situation still puts my dog at risk. There may be a grey area to 'effective control' if the dog actually bites as the act may mean it was not being effectively controlled even though it was on lead (an extreme example would be an on lead dog dragging an owner towards an offlead dog and biting it would likely be seen as the dog on lead not being under effective control) though the argument would still be fairly well in your favour (according to my discussion with council) if, for example, your dog was the one on lead, the other dog approached your dog, the owner had been asked clearly and loudly to call their dog away and had either not done so or had done so and the dog had not responded, and the dog had approached right up in your dogs face, at which point your dog bit the other dog.

An 'offlead area' simply means a dog may be offlead if the owner has (and actually exercises!) effective control. It does not mean the dog must or should be offlead or excuse the behaviour of the dog when offlead. It means the owner has the option to do so if the dog is well enough behaved and will not interfere with other dogs. There are a LOT of people out there that simply dont get this and unfortunately they make it very unpleasant for everyone else.

I will admit though that I am just as angry at owners such as this for putting their OWN dog at risk. They have no knowledge of the other dog. They do not know whether it is ok with dogs approaching it or not. They are as a result putting their own dog in danger. Very irresponsible IMO.

As suggested I recommend you call the council and discuss how they view this type of situation where you are. In the context of your dog though I would choose words carefully as you dont want to leave yourself open to liability because you are aware your do 'could' act (who knows what way opinions go these days). Simply say it 'upsets' your dog when they approach like that. I will be interested to hear what they say.

Edited November 11, 2011 by espinay2

[twodoggies2001]

I can read them fine and that is why I'm yelling at them. The dogs that are running towards me are not under any control (usually owners are yelling at their dogs to no avail) and even if they appear friendly (which some of them do) I still don't want them jumping all over my dog and possibly having a fight start.

I am trying to protect my dog from the many people who don't have a clue about dog body language. To me it is obvious that my dog is not comfortable in being approached by strange dogs but unfortunately there are a lot of dogs and owners out there who think that because there dog is 'friendly' that it is fine to run up to any dog it wishes. If a fight broke out or my dog did bite their dog I am terrified that because my dog is a Dobe that he will be the one blamed and I will lose him.

Maybe if people had better fences, knew a little more about dogs etc then I wouldn't have to yell at them.

BTW I rarely do yell, only if the dog approaching is out of control/ignoring it's owner or looks like it's intentions are questionable.

My own dog has a great recall and doesn't approach other dogs when he is off lead, he listens to me and I have a fair bit of confidence in him but I don't know these other dogs and therefore I would rather prevent something from happening before it has a chance to.

Could the reason you say it's obvious to you that your dog is not comfortable because he is anticipating your yelling each time a dog approaches?

[sandgrubber]

I can't help but feel that there are a bunch of very uptight owners on this thread whose past experiences are contributing to creating an atmosphere of anxiety where they are putting themselves and their dogs at risk.

Clearly some people should choose not to use off-lead areas instead of employing tactics which are provocative to dogs and humans.

clearly some people need to realise how rude they and their bloody dogs are and not let anything off lead that does not have a relaible recall.

Why should I be prevented from using a lovely walking track cause people can't control their dogs? Why should my slightly anxious girl be denied a nice walk by the river? Why should I be denied a nice walk by the river with my dog who loved those walks?

But we have been denied those pleasures by people who obviuosly think the same as you

You shouldn't be denied. But neither should first-time-dog owners who maybe did the RSPCA's six week training course and think their dog is well trained be denied an opportunity to let their goofy puppies play with other dogs. There are a lot more of such folks than there are people who have done regular training for years.

How about a little tolerance!

[espinay2]

You shouldn't be denied. But neither should first-time-dog owners who maybe did

the RSPCA's six week training course and think their dog is well trained be

denied an opportunity to let their goofy puppies play with other dogs. There

are a lot more of such folks than there are people who have done regular

training for years.

How to approach another dog, basic dog law (such as what 'effective control' means) and ettiquette needs to be taught in these classes. I certainly teach them in the beginner classes I teach.

I do not think anyone is 'denying them the opportunity' - but allowing a dog or pup to rush up to any dog they like is not only showing no respect for the other dog and owner, but no care or respect for their own dog, who may be faced with a situation that results not just in physical scars but behavioural ones too.

CONTROLLED play with dogs they are introduced to is always a good thing. How hard is it for owners to ask another dog owner 'can my dog say hello?' before allowing their dog or pup to interact? This gives the other owner the opportunity to allow their dog to engage or not based on their knowledge of how their dog may react and will ensure that the puppy gets good experiences when playing.

All it takes is common courtesy.

[corvus]

I am also not OK with dogs rushing my dog, as normally this means they are not under control, friendly or not. A dog that is rushing full speed at you is not likely to then suddenly have manners when it arrives at your dog to greet your dog, but rather likely to be rude at best, or unfriendly at worst.

Not in my experience. It's variable. Often they pull up and cover the last few metres at a more sedate pace and then perform a lovely appropriate greeting and move on. Other times they run past and loop back around at a trot to greet appropriately. I've never had much trouble with dogs rushing us. The boys usually know what their intention is. The one time someone got body slammed it was me. The dogs ducked out of the way! That was a very rude dog.

I have difficulty with the notion that someone could have never been approached by a friendly dog. Happens to me several times a day. Happens to me wherever I take my dogs. I could count the times we've been approached by an unfriendly dog on one hand. Am I living in a different world? Often greetings are tense because dogs don't know who this dog is and what they might do. A tense dog is not an unfriendly dog. I have seen countless tense greetings dissolve into more relaxed interactions once the dogs have established that no one wants to start something. It's worse on the street where the dogs you meet are on leash or may be in their home territory, but even then.

[Kavik]

Mine does not like rude greetings, running up to someone's face is rude. He is not likely to respond in a friendly manner to a dog that is running full pelt at us, can't blame him really. IME dogs that rush you even if they slow down are going to perform a rude greeting - full on, possibly posturing, head over other dog's shoulders, high head carriage, get in my dog's space.

[sparkycat]

I am also not OK with dogs rushing my dog, as normally this means they are not under control, friendly or not. A dog that is rushing full speed at you is not likely to then suddenly have manners when it arrives at your dog to greet your dog, but rather likely to be rude at best, or unfriendly at worst.

Not in my experience. It's variable. Often they pull up and cover the last few metres at a more sedate pace and then perform a lovely appropriate greeting and move on. Other times they run past and loop back around at a trot to greet appropriately. I've never had much trouble with dogs rushing us. The boys usually know what their intention is. The one time someone got body slammed it was me. The dogs ducked out of the way! That was a very rude dog.

I have difficulty with the notion that someone could have never been approached by a friendly dog. Happens to me several times a day. Happens to me wherever I take my dogs. I could count the times we've been approached by an unfriendly dog on one hand. Am I living in a different world? Often greetings are tense because dogs don't know who this dog is and what they might do. A tense dog is not an unfriendly dog. I have seen countless tense greetings dissolve into more relaxed interactions once the dogs have established that no one wants to start something. It's worse on the street where the dogs you meet are on leash or may be in their home territory, but even then.

I agree completely Corvus - I have a dog who runs up to people and dogs - with people she goes for a cuddle and with dogs she usually circles and play bows. I haven't had any complaints - only comments on how lovely and friendly she is.

[sandgrubber]

I can't help but feel that there are a bunch of very uptight owners on this thread whose past experiences are contributing to creating an atmosphere of anxiety where they are putting themselves and their dogs at risk.

Clearly some people should choose not to use off-lead areas instead of employing tactics which are provocative to dogs and humans.

clearly some people need to realise how rude they and their bloody dogs are and not let anything off lead that does not have a relaible recall.

Why should I be prevented from using a lovely walking track cause people can't control their dogs? Why should my slightly anxious girl be denied a nice walk by the river? Why should I be denied a nice walk by the river with my dog who loved those walks?

But we have been denied those pleasures by people who obviuosly think the same as you

You shouldn't be denied. But neither should first-time-dog owners who maybe did the RSPCA's six week training course and think their dog is well trained be denied an opportunity to let their goofy puppies play with other dogs. There are a lot more of such folks than there are people who have done regular training for years.

How about a little tolerance!