Dog Park Rules / Law

[Aidan3]

It seems that many on this thread would consider the owner of the GSD to be totally in the wrong for protecting her pup......

Such as who? Big difference between hitting any dog within striking distance and what LMS did. Also a big difference between preferring not to put dogs into an aroused state by getting carried away and considering someone else to be "totally in the wrong" for doing so.

[espinay2]

I havent seen any one here talking about hitting ANY dog within striking distance. No one here it is saying it is a preferred approach. Everyone who has said they would do it has said it is a last resort when nothing else works or when quick action is necessary to protect dogs or children etc

From my point of view anyway, the referred to thread demonstrates very well the type of situation where I would act in the same manner to protect the dogs. But once again the mob seems to be going off on a tangent against the 'nasty people who hit dogs when on walks' without actually reading what is being said.

The thing is, if a person keeps their dog under control, asks permission for a dog to approach, and doesnt let their dog run up to a strange dog, then their dog will NEVER be put in this situation. Which makes me wonder therefore if those who are protesting so much about how they would act if anyone did that to their dogs (i.e. took measures to keep them away from their own dog), are actually placing their dogs in the type of situation where it potentially could happen?

Edited November 14, 2011 by espinay2

[rebelsquest]

I havent seen any one here talking about hitting ANY dog within striking distance. If you have can you please provide the quote? All I have heard is people saying they would do it if the situation called for it to protect their dog (and the other dog), and being hauled over the coals for it.

From my point of view anyway, the referred to thread demonstrates very well the type of situation where I would act in the same manner to protect the dogs.

(Once again the mob seems to be going off on a tangent against the 'nasty people who hit dogs when on walks' without actually reading what is being said)

+1 to the bolded bit, from my point of view it seems things in this thread have been blown out of proportion. I will admit I have skimmed some posts in this thread, however from what I have read NO ONE is saying they hit any dog that goes near them.

[Aidan3]

I havent seen any one here talking about hitting ANY dog within striking distance. No one here it is saying it is a preferred approach. Everyone who has said they would do it has said it is a last resort when nothing else works or when quick action is necessary to protect dogs or children etc

One poster said she kicked any approaching dogs, another agreed with her. Another claimed to use a riding crop, and clarification was sought on this.

It's reasonable for the discussion to turn towards boundaries of acceptable behaviour. It's not a cut and dried issue.

Which makes me wonder therefore if those who are protesting so much about how they would act if anyone did that to their dogs, are actually placing their dogs in the type of situaiton where it potentially could happen?

Neither of my dogs ever approach other dogs without invitation. One of my own dogs has exemplary manners and social skills, the other is reactive. We walk in off-leash areas daily and I've never had to use anything more than body language to prevent problems, but I believe this has quite a lot to do with my 'good' dog who will intercept and peacefully move on approaching dogs. Calmness is preventative.

[Kavik]

I've had dogs jump fences to get to mine sometimes out of their yard with the owner right there (on the street), or they were on an oval/in park and we were outside. It is hard to think their intentions are friendly when they are that intent on getting to your dog (one of them had a go at my dog). And hard to remain calm.

Edited November 14, 2011 by Kavik

[Bartok]

I must have a bad behaved dog and I must be a crap owner

My 9mth old goes to the off leash fenced dog park daily

and he runs around like an idiot, wreslting and sniffing and

chasing other dogs. He loves it.

Does he have good recall? Not yet. are we working on it? Yes

He goes to school weekly.

Does he run to the gate to greet other dogs? Sometimes.

I watch the dog coming in to see if i know the ppl and the dog

if i dont then i make sure I get close enough to get his attention

and for him to back up and let the new dog in

For me if it is a designated off leash dog park then that is what it is

There is plenty of walking tracks for owners to exercise their dogs

if you dont want you dog to socialise with other dogs for whatever reason

they why do you need to come into an off leash park in the first place?

If it is a public park that permits off leash then that is different

Then you need to be really diligant, but again, not a place i would take my

Labrador as he is snappy at dogs in his face. So i dont risk taking him there.

He goes to parks and places that i know are quiet and safe for him to run around

[Weasels]

Bartok I think a lot depends on the culture of your local dog park.

For me dogs approaching us is an everyday occurence, but the vast majority of people/dogs we encounter are known to at least one person in the park, so word of an aggressive dog or encounter spreads very quickly. Therefore I feel pretty safe in my local haunts.

Other people clearly have a different experience. I think it's more important to understand how your local dog people feel about certain behaviours, rather than extrapolating the experience that people may have had in completely different environments with different dogs. If unsure, probably best to err on the side of caution and keep your dogs close tho

[Bartok]

Bartok I think a lot depends on the culture of your local dog park.

For me dogs approaching us is an everyday occurence, but the vast majority of people/dogs we encounter are known to at least one person in the park, so word of an aggressive dog or encounter spreads very quickly. Therefore I feel pretty safe in my local haunts.

Other people clearly have a different experience. I think it's more important to understand how your local dog people feel about certain behaviours, rather than extrapolating the experience that people may have had in completely different environments with different dogs. If unsure, probably best to err on the side of caution and keep your dogs close tho

I like my park and i dont like new parks, and maybe it is because i know my park and alot of the dogs or have seen them

I know who is a bit snippity or who gets a little to rough (my boy lol)

i dont stress about it though. to me it is like kids in a playground.

[Kavik]

Bartok I think a lot depends on the culture of your local dog park.

For me dogs approaching us is an everyday occurence, but the vast majority of people/dogs we encounter are known to at least one person in the park, so word of an aggressive dog or encounter spreads very quickly. Therefore I feel pretty safe in my local haunts.

Other people clearly have a different experience. I think it's more important to understand how your local dog people feel about certain behaviours, rather than extrapolating the experience that people may have had in completely different environments with different dogs. If unsure, probably best to err on the side of caution and keep your dogs close tho

I like my park and i dont like new parks, and maybe it is because i know my park and alot of the dogs or have seen them

I know who is a bit snippity or who gets a little to rough (my boy lol)

i dont stress about it though. to me it is like kids in a playground.

OK you want to do the playground comparison . . .

How would you feel if a teenager/group of teenagers were running flat out at you and your young child who had recently started walking? or even if you had a 4 year old? And they only bolted towards you when you appeared in the playground. I know I'd be worried and be calling out for them to stop.

Edited November 14, 2011 by Kavik

[espinay2]

I suggest people go back and read what has been said in context. Here are the actual posts where people say what they have done to protect their dogs from dogs which are loose and approaching them.

I yell at the top of my lungs at any dog that runs towards us as I'm walking my Dobe. It really seems to get up peoples noses but at the end of the day I'm trying to protect my dog. How do I know if the dog that is galloping towards me is friendly or not?

BTW I rarely do yell, only if the dog approaching is out of control/ignoring it's owner or looks like it's intentions are questionable.

A lady I know was minding her own business walking her two large breed dogs on lead down the street. Whilst bending over to pick up poop a small fluffy dog appeared from no-where and raced up to her dogs giving them a fright. One of her dogs had a chomp. The vet bill came to thousands, small dog died. Lady of large dogs was threatened with having both of her dogs seized and destroyed despite no DNA to proove which/both dogs did what. Lady lawyered up and went to court. She got to keep her dogs but had to pay vet bll for small dog.

Apparently although the small dog was illegally offlead, the big dogs were the greater of the two evils.

So - I will do anything and everything - kick, scream at, flogg any dog that gets within a couple of metres of my onlead dogs. I do not give a rats if people think I am stupid or paranoid, I will not put my dogs in danger of being seized and destroyed because of some other persons "friendly" dog.

... I;ve had chiro bills from Mr Bouncy. More often than not, Mr Bouncy turns out to be rude or aggressive and starts something with my dogs and I'm left trying to sort it out, while the idiot owner yells out " ohhh he's friendly"

I no longer tolerate dogs within kicking distance of my dogs. I tell the owners to call their dog or it will get kicked.

I have hit or kicked about 3 dogs over the years that have kept coming close enough to be hit. Most back off when you swish the riding crop around, they don't like the sound or they are unsure what is happening. I did also actually kick a dog who jumped up on my daughter as well when she was sitting/leaning on the back bumper of my car and she wore it's nail marks on her neck/chest for weeks. He was just saying hi.

They are acting to protect their dogs from another dog whose owners are acting against the law and allowing their dog not to be under effective control. They are only acting when they are put in a situation that they feel calls for it to protect their dogs and their family and the way I read it, only when other action to prevent it has not worked.

Bottom line and the whole point of this thread, lilli, who is the OP sums it up well:

I rang council and dog owners are not allowed to let their dog run or rush or BE PERCEIVED to run up towards anyone.

If an off lead dog runs up to my personal space and the owner does not call the dog away as asked, council interprets me requesting the owner to call away their dog as I am afraid of dog attack. Not that my dogs are aggressive.

Thus anyone allowing their dog to run up to another dog is opening themselves up to misunderstanding and potentially putting their dogs at risk. IMO any owner who has a dog run up to their dog on lead, and acts to protect their own dog as necessary, is in the right and I will support them.

As I have said earlier, a little courtesy goes a long way.....but in the absence of courtesy I am going to act to protect me and mine as it seems no one else is going to do it for me (or themselves). As leader of my dog pack, that is my job.

Edited November 14, 2011 by espinay2

[Aidan3]

It is hard to think their intentions are friendly when they are that intent on getting to your dog (one of them had a go at my dog). And hard to remain calm.

I know, I really do. I have a hard time convincing clients to remain calm, some people find it really easy, others have a really hard time with it. It helps to be a psychopath

[sandgrubber]

The thing is, good behavour starts here. If every dog owner who has read this thread made sure they exercised common courtesy by asking another owners permission before allowing their dog to approach another dog, then it would be a start. If every person who reads this thread also taught one other person (friend or family for example) this basic behaviour and they did it too, it would be even better. If every dog trainer who reads this thread also taught their students this simple rule we are on our way.

I'd recommend accepting the things you cannot change.

Say a hundred people have followed this thread; half of them don't go to dog parks. How many untrained or minimally trained dogs are there in Australia? How much training does it take to get a young dog to avoid 'rude' approaches? Lots of people are getting advice to socialise their dogs when they are young, which in most cases means puppy take them to the dog park or beach and let them play. It may be proceeded by puppy preschool . . . and followed by the 6 or 8 week RSPCA training where they sort of learn sit, stay, heel, and get a bit of socialisation, but don't learn recall under distraction (which generally requires a skilled trainer and one-on-one work). Trainers recommend going to the dog park for socialisation.

~85% of the dogs encounters in a dog park will be either positive or neutral; in another 5 or 10%, one dog will make it clear that they don't want to play by growling or body language and the game gets called off; in an additional few percent a small dog (typically a swf's) gets end up collected in its owner's arms, or a dog on lead will be tightly reigned in. And then there's a percent or less that escalate to violence. In my experience, some herding dogs get nippy, but the worst violence involves bull breeds or guardian breeds who have not been socialised to tolerate swf's, happy body-slam greetings from SBTs, goofy retrievers, little terriers who think they are big ferocious dogs, and the other types that run around the typical off-lead dog park.

I'd guess most dogs who have good greeting manners were either born with them or learned them from other dogs, by getting growled at or worse, after approaching a dog that doesn't want to play. Almost all of mine have learned from an older bitch (my oldies get praised for telling off rude puppies). Relatively few learn approach manners from human trainers.

Regardless of the law, it is hard to plead the case that a 5 kg dog is responsible when it gets hurt by a 40 kg dog. If you're going to take a large guardian to a dog park, I'd recommend training to increase the dog's tolerance to 'rude' behaviour, and work with others in the park to avoid confrontations.

It's hard for the few to change the behaviour of the many.

[anniek]

Regardless of the law, it is hard to plead the case that a 5 kg dog is responsible when it gets hurt by a 40 kg dog.

And that is exactly why I take a big stick with me, so that when I am walking my 25kg & 37kg dogs ON LEAD down the street and a 5 kg "friendly" OFF LEAD dog decides to rush them/me, I can protect my dogs from being seized and destroyed if the worst happens.

[espinay2]

If you're going to take a large guardian to a dog park, I'd recommend training to increase the dog's tolerance to 'rude' behaviour, and work with others in the park to avoid confrontations.

You mean like this? (BTW, the Dalmatian in the picture is my dog who hates being approached rudely by strange dogs as she was attacked as a pup. But these dogs were introduced to her when the owners asked permission for them to meet)

I'd recommend accepting the things you cannot change..............It's hard for the few to change the behaviour of the many.

It is a sad day when people give up and do nothing because they think they can't change anything. Unfortunately that is why dog ownership is becoming harder and harder and playing right into the hands of those who want to regulate it out of existence. For the sake of the future of dog ownership everywhere, that type of 'why bother' approach is not an attitude I am willing to take.

Edited November 14, 2011 by espinay2

[ncarter]

sorry didnt want to start my own thread but i remembered this topic was a good one.

I had an incident at the local school tonight where i had a nuisance puppy (like a young boxer X) annoying my dog on a few occasions. The dog was all friendly and bouncy. And my young bitch just wanted nothing to do with him. There was a couple with the dog. The woman just ignored me and the two of them proceeded to call their dog about 20 times and it just ignored them. I asked the bloke to call his dog away and told him his dog was too big to play with my dog, and he got all defensive and said its ok he wont hurt her. Well my bitch was getting really antsy with this unwanted attention and told this other dog off, and this other dog was about to react i think, so i grabbed the dog by the harness and lead the dog to his owner. And i left after that because i had had enough anyway. I dont think i could have said anything to change this guys free-for-all attitude.

So i was just wondering how far you guys would go to protect your dog, without seeming like your over-reacting?

[Aussie Boxer]

Wow, some really big opinions in this thread! I think some more "over" protective mum's and dad's in here than in "skin" kid parenting forums or discussions about suitable day-care centres!

After reading all the comment's in this thread I think that we are missing a really important factor that comes into play in this.

Your OWN behaviour,

All to quickly everyone appears to look down upon the people that have their dog running freely and state that the attitudes of the owners are abysmal etc, Is this not the "blame" game (blame everyone else for a situation without looking at how they could have improved the situation themselves - we aren't all perfect), Whilst I don't disagree with the majority of the comments, I also don't agree 100%, The majority of your dog's behaviour is in response to its owners demeanour, how anxious or scared the owner is feeling when a situation arises, for instance;

You're in a Off Lead enclosed yard, you are walking your dog around minding your own business and there is a "pack" of overly hypo dogs all running around and enjoying themselves and they come on over to see the new "kid" that's in the playground, by the owner of the "new" dog fretting that its going to be attacked and that you don't "like" it being approached or sniffed (why are you in a "socialisation" place in the 1st place) your dog will automatically feed of your "vibe" and act accordingly, If u are scared your dog will become scared, it will either hide between your legs or will act defensively to protect its master, You will then read this incorrectly that your dog is scared of the big bad "Oscar" and you will then react again escalating the encounter! So many of these things can be combated by not only being smart about watching yours and others dog's behaviours' but also remembering first and foremost how YOU are acting in the situation.

As you can tell by my name I'm a Boxer owner (x2), As many of us are aware they are the over excited jump around want to play with anyone and anything type of dog, from what people have posted up on here it shows that their own level of knowledge of other dog breed's is very limited, Dog's in general don't attack another dog unless it's over one of a few things (1. direct threat to their pack, 2. Threat to their property 3. defence) All of these are pretty easy to avoid when you're out with your dog! Unless they are attacked by a stray pack that is hunting (nasty and no way the norm)

Why won't you let your little dog play with a medium, large or giant dog breed? It's not because the dog doesn't want to, it's solely because you have a preconceived idea that it's too dangerous! In my case, are the two boxers dangerous? No, certainly not, not unless they perceive (in your control) that their pack is under threat, otherwise it's all harmless dog play, it's fun, they all like it, I'm regularly looking after other breeds when owners are on holidays, they are all small/mini breeds, and play just fine with the bigger dogs! ranging from Pugs, Jack Russell's, Lab's to Maltese xhitshu?, not once have I had a problem! The only problem is other dogs owners being uneducated or thinking that they know everything!

Sorry for the long rant but opinions like some comments listed here infuriate me, everyone is entitled to their opinion but PLEASE base it on fact rather than false and misconceptions on dog breed's and size's! The real problem is the owners, not the dogs, in the end you are really only hurting your own dog as they are missing out on socialising with many types of dogs,

When it all comes down to it, it's a little like racism isn't it? Would you yell and rant at another "skin" kids parents because their child of different race/age/religion came near your child in the park? to me, that makes you the hysterical psychotic person that is not fit to own a dog, nor is it indeed effective control in a public place.

Food for thought,

Chappo.

[huski]

You're in a Off Lead enclosed yard, you are walking your dog around minding your own business and there is a "pack" of overly hypo dogs all running around and enjoying themselves and they come on over to see the new "kid" that's in the playground

I don't use off leash parks as a general rule but I just have to add, that is a situation I would be incredibly wary of and one I have seen turn into a disaster on many occasions.

A group of strange, over aroused dogs rushing up to mob a new arrival to the park is a situation that responsible owners should avoid (by recalling their dogs before it gets to that point). I've seen that very situation turn into a very serious attack and fight on numerous occasions because the new arrival to the park feels threatened by a group of strange dogs rushing up to it - nothing at all do to with the owner of the new dog projecting "bad vibes".

[Guest donatella]

Why wont I let my little dog play with a larger breed? Purely for her safety until I know the dog and the owner first. There is no way in hell an unfamiliar larger dog is coming near mine at a dog park/beach without my full attention, consent and chat with the owner. Your larger breed dog might be the sweetest thing on the planet but one rough play move and I have an injured dog. I prefer to keep her play sessions evenly matched, and so does she.

I took her for the first time last week to an off leash dog beach down the coast, beautiful white sand, waves, blue sea, I want her to enjoy and experience that. I did however keep her on leash at all times so when the bigger guys rushed up to say hi, I could pick her up first to assess the situation. She met a few larger breeds but had no real interest in them anyway as she is somewhat aware of her size when a 50kg dog is bouncing around her trying to play.

Edited January 14, 2012 by donatella

[Aussie Boxer]

You're in a Off Lead enclosed yard, you are walking your dog around minding your own business and there is a "pack" of overly hypo dogs all running around and enjoying themselves and they come on over to see the new "kid" that's in the playground

I don't use off leash parks as a general rule but I just have to add, that is a situation I would be incredibly wary of and one I have seen turn into a disaster on many occasions.

A group of strange, over aroused dogs rushing up to mob a new arrival to the park is a situation that responsible owners should avoid (by recalling their dogs before it gets to that point). I've seen that very situation turn into a very serious attack and fight on numerous occasions because the new arrival to the park feels threatened by a group of strange dogs rushing up to it - nothing at all do to with the owner of the new dog projecting "bad vibes".

I too have seen it many, many times, however I have only seen it turn bad once, (im not talking about 5+ dogs) it was a case of the owner of the new dog acting scared and getting their dog all defensive before the pack got there, yes, 9/10 times they should be introduced on leads in a more surreal/sedate environment, however, its not always possible, kids will be kids so to speak, If the owner approached the dog pack in anticipation in a confident and welconming manner their own dog would learn a whole lot more ;)..the way you bring your dog up and act in these situations has alot more to do with it then people in this thread have entertained, but yes, bad things do happen everywhere, but the minoroty incident shouldnt be talked about as the "norm".

[huski]

I too have seen it many, many times, however I have only seen it turn bad once, (im not talking about 5+ dogs) it was a case of the owner of the new dog acting scared and getting their dog all defensive before the pack got there, yes, 9/10 times they should be introduced on leads in a more surreal/sedate environment, however, its not always possible, kids will be kids so to speak, If the owner approached the dog pack in anticipation in a confident and welconming manner their own dog would learn a whole lot more ;)..the way you bring your dog up and act in these situations has alot more to do with it then people in this thread have entertained, but yes, bad things do happen everywhere, but the minoroty incident shouldnt be talked about as the "norm".

I used to use the local dog parks around here every day for years, I stopped going because of the number of fights and attacks you'd see at the park almost every day. Yes, the owners play a big part, if they had been responsible and had well trained and reliable dogs then attacks and fights wouldn't happen in the first place. Blaming any kind of fight breaking out in the park because an owner walks in feeling worried about a large pack of highly aroused dogs rushing at their dog is just ridiculous.

ETA: One of the most common times you'd see a fight break out would be when dogs get mobbed by others at the gate as they are coming in the park, nothing at all to do with how the owner was acting.

Edited January 14, 2012 by huski