Dog Park Rules / Law

[Greyt]

But I do not see how using violence against other dogs or being rude to other owners ought to be part of a responsible dog owner's tool kit.

If moron's can't understand basic manners and can't/won't control their dogs then I am being responsible by defending my dogs in any manner I see fit. When you have one of your dogs attacked you may feel differently about whether any dog should be given the benefit of any doubt on it's intentions.

My very first loyalty is to MY dogs, no one elses.

absolutely spot on

And my "responsible dog owner's tool kit" to defend MY dogs, contains a big stick!

Well, I genuinely hope that another human does not attack either of you but I fear it will happen if you use the stick or riding crop on other dogs often enough.

[Rebanne]

Well, I genuinely hope that another human does not attack either of you but I fear it will happen if you use the stick or riding crop on other dogs often enough.

I sincerely hope for your dogs sake you never have to protect it.

[Aidan3]

Defending your dogs is one thing. Kicking or hitting any dog who gets within striking distance is another completely. I'm not sure if anyone is actually doing this (and I doubt it) but some of these posts read that way.

Lilli, effective control means that someone can call their dog off. Not that they will. It would be very easy for someone to argue that they didn't hear you and therefore didn't realise there was a problem. I wouldn't be prepared to take that risk, the world is not always a just place.

[Weasels]

Well, I genuinely hope that another human does not attack either of you but I fear it will happen if you use the stick or riding crop on other dogs often enough.

Whilst being pretty non-confrontational myself, I can think of several people i've met who wouldn't hesitate to punch you in the face for kicking their dog/s.

[Rebanne]

Defending your dogs is one thing. Kicking or hitting any dog who gets within striking distance is another completely. I'm not sure if anyone is actually doing this (and I doubt it) but some of these posts read that way.

I have hit or kicked about 3 dogs over the years that have kept coming close enough to be hit. Most back off when you swish the riding crop around, they don't like the sound or they are unsure what is happening. I did also actually kick a dog who jumped up on my daughter as well when she was sitting/leaning on the back bumper of my car and she wore it's nail marks on her neck/chest for weeks. He was just saying hi.

[Aidan3]

Well, I genuinely hope that another human does not attack either of you but I fear it will happen if you use the stick or riding crop on other dogs often enough.

Whilst being pretty non-confrontational myself, I can think of several people i've met who wouldn't hesitate to punch you in the face for kicking their dog/s.

Exactly. If I'm to accept someone else's right to defend their dog from an unwarranted attack, then they must be willing to accept my right to defend my own dog also. They'd want to be sure the defence was necessary and appropriate and that I agreed with their judgment.

[corvus]

I have had my dog attacked and still manage to protect my dogs in dog parks without resorting to violence or other anti-social behaviour. That is my choice because I prefer making friends over enemies. If you would rather make enemies than friends, that's your prerogative. I don't care other than that I feel sorry for the dogs that get hit with a stick because their owners committed the cardinal sin of not being as dog savvy as you, or not being particularly effective trainers. I don't think they or their owners deserve that.

Erik has been in a grand total of 3 fights in dog parks his whole life. None of them serious. I love how my sympathising with people that have similar problems and sharing that I've been there equates to Erik getting into lots of fights because I have mistaken unfriendly dogs for friendly ones when they are approaching. That's a spectacularly long bow you have there!

The safety and wellbeing of your dogs when out of their yard is naturally of paramount importance, but I don't think indiscriminate exclusion is the only way to achieve that. It is a way, perhaps, but I would hate for people to think it is the only option available to them. You can shape the responses you want if you don't have them already. I did, and I'm a terribly inexperienced trainer. ;)

[skip]

Haven't been in the forums lately but a friend today mentioned this thread.

Today after a long absence I went back to a local dog leash free beach. Due to all the problems listed on this thread I just took one dog, leaving one at home. I hate this and so does the dog left behind. But as I explained to my friend who was worried when she saw I was missing a dog, I can only keep one dog safe at a time.

She thought this was sad and it is. I used to love walking my dogs on the beach but now I am too scared. Due to some past incidents I am so nervous and particularly certain types of dog make me panic. Unreasonable maybe but the truth. I can only enjoy and relax a walk if I have one to worry about, who I can pick up if attacked. I know picking up dogs is bad but getting mauled is ugly too.

We now have a new on lead beach. I have started going here late in the afternoon where it is really quiet and you can at least move away if you see some dogs coming that you would rather avoid. Only been a few times but not sure how this will work. If dogs are off leash you should be able to request the owner put them on leash. Owners won't have the come back that "its off lead so my dogs can do anything". I will see how it goes.

I am about to get a third dog and I wonder how do walk all three safely.An issue I have here is rude uncontrolled dogs let loose in the land near where I live that is on leash area. People think that cause it is a big fairly quiet area they can let their unsocialised possibly aggressive dogs off. The problem with this is that it is getting busier due to new bike tracks and it seems dogs and people are popping up everywhere.Trees hide the tracks and what is approaching is hard to see.

Hard to find a safe place to walk. Why do owners think it is their right to let their dogs off regardless of if they are safe or not. I sometimes meet a lady and her 2 bc's, her dogs are rude and have been known to attack smaller dogs. They leave my dogs alone but she is tempting fate by still allowing them off. I tried to help her but she isn't really keen to do anything.

I can't get over now so many people don't train their dogs! Its not that bloody hard and part of owning a dog.

I hear others mention carry a stick or kick other dogs. I have thought of this but its harder than it looks to stop a dog hell bent on getting one of mine. And some owners could become even more vicious than their dogs if you threaten their dog. Otherwise I'd want a cattle prod. And if i get loud and yell my dogs would be more worried as I don't normally yell.

Winge over. Thanks.

Edited November 13, 2011 by skip

[sandgrubber]

Like it or not, the general public's level of dog literacy is low. Dog parks reflect this, and half-trained or untrained dogs are common. Preach, yell, scream or kick, this isn't going to change.

Spend a little time reading the 'training' thread and you'll find that many people have a hard time accessing good training classes, and don't know how to do it themselves. And those are people who are motivated enough to seek out DOL advice. Most of the people you meet at the dog park haven't taken, and won't take that step. Fortunately, most of the dog-illiterate aren't drawn to aggressive dogs . . .

Sometimes time is as important as place. In my dog park experience (mostly Perth metro), if you don't like the behaviour of certain dogs, learn when they show up and don't go to the park at this time. Or if your dog isn't dog friendly, walk in the early am or late at night, when there aren't many people/dogs around. Also, shop around for your dog parks. Beaches and popular river walks tend to be haphazard, but the parks with no particularly-attractive feature tend to have mostly neighbourhood people, and they tend to develop their own culture, etiquitte (sp?), etc.

[Greyt]

Well, I genuinely hope that another human does not attack either of you but I fear it will happen if you use the stick or riding crop on other dogs often enough.

I sincerely hope for your dogs sake you never have to protect it.

Unwanted and undesirable dog behavior *IS* a fact of life at dog parks and off-leash areas. But I choose to take mine there anyway because my judgment is that *for my dogs*, the benefits outweigh the risks involved.

I am armed with an arsenal of tactics to make our dog park experiences as fun and safe as possible.

These include:

Reading other dogs body language

Training my dogs in re-call (well try as best I can... they are sighthounds and as fosters, are often new to it all).

Introducing my dogs to the regular dogs at the park so that they become accepted quickly

Being hyper vigilant at all times while still being relaxed.

Being on the look out for and avoiding spots where owners are sitting at benches as their dogs tend to become territorial.

Walking more than talking

Getting to know the regulars who support each others efforts to create a harmonious environment

Explaining breed characteristics to them so as to educate them to become more-proactive around the particular needs of my dogs and allowing me to be pro-active around their dogs eg, Greyhounds skin rips easily and sometimes I have to remove my dog or their dog from potentially harmful situations... and they give me more license to do so due to our conversations.

Pro-actively stepping forward towards DA dogs who are rude to my dogs

Removing other dogs from each other when things become too heated

Time my visits so that there is a good chance I will achieve my objectives for that visit.

I can choose not to use off-leash areas and so avoid the risks and should, in my judgment, the risks become too great, that is what I would do. There are so many dogs I see every day, that I would choose not to take to the dog park if they were mine (mostly small dogs that run away from approaching big dogs). And I would *never* take my 2 year old grand daughter because of unacceptable risks.

I can all but guarantee my dog's safety by keeping them in the back yard... this is a *choice* we all have.

What I can't do is *expect* all dogs in off-leash areas, and dog parks to be well behaved in the same way that I can't expect there to be no crime in our society or bullying in schools.

So, if I continue to take my dogs to dog parks and off-leash areas, I do so knowing the risks.

[Odin-Genie]

General rule of thumb if your dog has potential to get aggressive or attack others it has no place in an off lead dog park.

I will qualify that statement by saying that dogs who are prone to reacting aggressively and are prone to biting (instead of a warning growl) should not be taken to dog parks.

What about dogs that are prone to getting anxious around other dogs but do not react aggressively?

I only have a problem with people who bring dogs to the dog park who are prone to being aggressive and prone to harming other dogs (that includes being fear aggressive). But if a dog is anxious but not aggressive then I have no issues with them.

Defending your dogs is one thing. Kicking or hitting any dog who gets within striking distance is another completely. I'm not sure if anyone is actually doing this (and I doubt it) but some of these posts read that way.

Agree. I once met a guy at a dog park with a small blind dog. He would sit on a bench near the water bowl and would try to kick any dog that came anywhere close to his dog even if it was just walking across to drink water. He would kick at other dogs even if his own dog tried to walk up to them.

One of my dogs doesn't like other dogs jumping up on him. He usually gives a warning growl and walks away. However, there are times when other dogs, particularly young labs, don't get the message and persist. I remove my dog if that happens. But I would never kick those dogs.

I can understand the need to protect one's dogs but those who try and kick/hurt other dogs just because they happen to be close are just plain rude. Before we start teaching politeness to dogs, perhaps it's a good idea to learn politeness as a human being.

I have had my dog attacked and still manage to protect my dogs in dog parks without resorting to violence or other anti-social behaviour. That is my choice because I prefer making friends over enemies. If you would rather make enemies than friends, that's your prerogative. I don't care other than that I feel sorry for the dogs that get hit with a stick because their owners committed the cardinal sin of not being as dog savvy as you, or not being particularly effective trainers. I don't think they or their owners deserve that.

Spot on. I protect my dogs at the dog park by being extremely cautious and leaving any time a strange dog comes in. We often walk around the perimeter and come back in if the dogs seem ok.

I'm amazed by the lack of compassion some dog owners have toward other's dogs. I love animals and I would never hurt one unless there was no other alternative.

[corvus]

I'm amazed by the lack of compassion some dog owners have toward other's dogs. I love animals and I would never hurt one unless there was no other alternative.

Me too. If you want to get through life without kicking dogs I think you can find a way and still keep your dog safe. Sometimes terrible things happen and you might find yourself in an emergency situation where you will need to act aggressively to protect your dog. I am a little gobsmacked that a friendly if somewhat rude dog approaching yours could be considered an emergency situation. If it was for me, I don't think I'd be out and about with that particular dog at times when I was likely to meet other dogs. I don't think I could handle the stress.

If I were lilli I would not be depending on council dog park rules. If something did happen, I doubt everyone's accounts of it would match. If there was contention, I imagine that the final decision would be unlikely to be in favour of the dog that caused injury. I guess that the council has a responsibility to public safety. If they let the dog off the hook and it injured another dog or person...

[espinay2]

The thing is, good behavour starts here. If every dog owner who has read this thread made sure they exercised common courtesy by asking another owners permission before allowing their dog to approach another dog, then it would be a start. If every person who reads this thread also taught one other person (friend or family for example) this basic behaviour and they did it too, it would be even better. If every dog trainer who reads this thread also taught their students this simple rule we are on our way.

Asking permission for your dog to interact with another alows owners a choice. They can say no or they can say yes. Many will likely say yes and your dogs can then play happily together. Some owners who may not like a dog approaching seemingly not under control may be very happy and say yes, if you ask permission first! Some owners may say no and may have a very good reason for that - it is courteous to respect those reasons.

Frankly, it is not about 'thats the way it is so suck it up' - it is about each individual taking responsibility and right here with the people reading this thread, is a good place to start.

Remember too that those people using every means available to keep your dog away from theirs when it approaches in an uncontrolled fashion may be doing YOU a favour by preventing a fight and damage to YOUR dog. I will admit that at times I have thought - oh bugger it - let them come and get bitten by my dog - I am tired of having to protect their dog when they have no intention of doing it themselves. But I have too much respect for BOTH dogs to allow that to happen - so in the end I just get cast as the bad guy by the other unthinking dog owner (and the mob here it seems). Maybe next time I will say bugger it ... (And if it is a DOLers dog, lets see how long it takes for the thread on 'my dog was attacked while out walking by a vicious dog today' to be posted....)

Remembr the law states that a dog MUST BE UNDER effective control - which means that not only must the dog be capable of being under control but that the owner MUST also exercise that control. A failure to exercise control is as much breaking the law as having none in the first place.

[jacqui835]

Defending your dogs is one thing. Kicking or hitting any dog who gets within striking distance is another completely. I'm not sure if anyone is actually doing this (and I doubt it) but some of these posts read that way.

As someone who has spent a decent amount of time in dog parks, I have had to make other dogs leave my dog alone on multiple occasions because their owners are like on the other side of the park and not paying any attention and I want my dog to feel like he can always rely on me to sort these situations out for him. But I have never kicked or hit another dog because I know that if someone attacked my dog there is a chance it would escalate the situation. I had some idiot once try and alpha roll my dog saying that he had to do that to all the dogs in the park. Well when he grabbed my dog's neck and started to try and push him down, he jumped away from the guy and growled at him - so I just don't think it's a good idea to implement physical strategies to address the problem, in case the dog responds in kind.

Of course if I was desperate, and the dog just wanted to attack mine and wasn't listening to me at all or being swayed by body language, well yeah I guess you'd do what you had to, but I find that most dogs at the parks respond well to you positioning yourself between your dog and the offender and sternly telling them no.

[Inevitablue]

The thing is, good behavour starts here. If every dog owner who has read this thread made sure they exercised common courtesy by asking another owners permission before allowing their dog to approach another dog, then it would be a start. If every person who reads this thread also taught one other person (friend or family for example) this basic behaviour and they did it too, it would be even better. If every dog trainer who reads this thread also taught their students this simple rule we are on our way.

Well said.

This thread shouldn't be about how people threaten to kick other people's dogs. I highly doubt people just go around randomly kicking or hitting dogs, it would be all situational. Yelling at the approaching dog, why not, if that teaches the dog to THINK before it rushes random people and dogs. Doesn't require sounding like a banshee, a ''go on, get away" growled at them I'm sure would be effective for the exuberant, overfriendly dog. Why is it ok for this dog to continue on with this behaviour? Kids aren't allowed to accost others in the playground, why should dogs? I'm a dog lover, but the world isnt all about warm and fuzzy. Why do I have to tolerate a dogs rudeness? So I don't hurt it's feelings? Please....

My gripe is the people who think I'm there with my dog to provide interaction for their dog. I'm astounded that people think its ok to allow their dogs to run up to others. It pretty darn obvious when people are happy to let the dogs interact, they continue walking in your direction, they smile, they obviously try to show no avoidance. Great! Everyone is happy. On the flip side, it's obvious when people want to do their own thing, so people with no offlead control, please learn to read the body language of PEOPLE!

[corvus]

Asking permission for your dog to interact with another alows owners a choice. They can say no or they can say yes. Many will likely say yes and your dogs can then play happily together. Some owners who may not like a dog approaching seemingly not under control may be very happy and say yes, if you ask permission first! Some owners may say no and may have a very good reason for that - it is courteous to respect those reasons.

I gave up doing this. As stated in another thread recently, people looked at me like I was a loony, always said yes even when I thought they maybe should have said no, and then looked surprised when their dog snapped at mine. I still ask if the owner appears hesitant and I think their dog will be all right, but otherwise I don't bother. I watch the dog and the owner and make a decision based on their combined body language. Haven't got any filthy looks or been shouted at yet.

Frankly, it is not about 'thats the way it is so suck it up' - it is about each individual taking responsibility and right here with the people reading this thread, is a good place to start.

Everyone here already does that as far as I can make out. I think that we get frustrated when people appear to refuse to accept the reality of sharing spaces with people that don't have the same background in dogs that they do. It's not that hard to be polite to people and tolerant of the fact they may not view dog ownership the same way as you do. I take up the slack for other owners all the time. As a dog park user that knows what I'm doing, my responsibility is to my dogs first, but it doesn't end there. I also take the lion's share of the responsibility for ensuring interactions between my dogs and others and between me and other dog owners are positive ones. I pick up the slack because that's what being part of a community is about. I like to think that people learn from it, but it doesn't matter if they don't because I'm watching out for them in my way and they watch out for me in theirs in return. They let us know when aggressive dogs have visited the park and what they look like, and when dogs have got injured on hazards we didn't know about (park benches are dog foot traps!) and other similar handy tidbits of information.

[Snout Girl]

anyone who kicks/hits my dogs just for coming close better be a fast runner

I'm not excusing rude dogs but there is such a thing as an over reaction and lashing out at any dog that gets close to yours is not sensible nor the right thing to do in my opinion.

of course I am not referring to an aggressive dog charging at you but just a curious dog coming in for a sniff. yes, the owner of the curious dog should call it back but the poor dog doesnt deserve a beating because its owner is a twit.

[espinay2]

anyone who kicks/hits my dogs just for coming close better be a fast runner

I'm not excusing rude dogs but there is such a thing as an over reaction and lashing out at any dog that gets close to yours is not sensible nor the right thing to do in my opinion.

of course I am not referring to an aggressive dog charging at you but just a curious dog coming in for a sniff. yes, the owner of the curious dog should call it back but the poor dog doesnt deserve a beating because its owner is a twit.

Two scenario's, same players:

PErson is walking their dog along a pthway at the local park. The dog is onlead, walking nicely and the two are not bothering anyone. Another person is in the middle of the park with their dog offlead. Dog sees other dog and runs over to greet it. Owner of on lead dog sees the dog approaching, attempts to get between them, but 'friendly dog' is persistent and circling around and around in order to 'say hello'. On lead dog is being kept on a short lead. Owner calls out to 'friendly dog owner' to call their dog who as they are walking casually across calls out 'don't worry, he is friendly!'

A.........at which time the friendly dog gets a bit too close and is grabbed by the onlead dog, ripping its ear and leaving a puncture wound in its face.

B.........Owner gives the circling dog a swift swipe with a stick and growls at it to 'get away' at which time the dog backs off.

Which scenario would you prefer as owner of the 'friendly dog'? Note I have seen both happen.

Edited November 14, 2011 by espinay2

[espinay2]

I gave up doing this. As stated in another thread recently, people looked at me like I was a loony, always said yes even when I thought they maybe should have said no, and then looked surprised when their dog snapped at mine.

I would personally have someone look at me as a loony (but then maybe think about why I am asking and learn from it if they hear it often enough - after all we always tell children to ask the owner first before patting a strange dog - to me this is a very similar situation). BTW, I am curious about the bit I have bolded - why did you ask permission when you saw the dog was probably not a good one for your dog to interact with? The point of asking is to approach and ask the ones you have chosen as being suitable for your dog to interact with, yes?

Everyone here already does that as far as I can make out. I think that we get frustrated when people appear to refuse to accept the reality of sharing spaces with people that don't have the same background in dogs that they do. It's not that hard to be polite to people and tolerant of the fact they may not view dog ownership the same way as you do.

Just because it is reality does not make it right. People with 'friendly dogs' also have to share. It works both ways.

I work damn hard to educate and help dog owners, mostly your average dog owner with one or two pet dogs to whom 'training' is about simply getting enough control to have a dog they are happy to live with. I deal with people who do not view dog ownership in the same way as I do every day and I don't expect them to view it the same way as I do. On the other hand, the more ordinary everyday dog owners I can educate on basic common courtesy when it comes to their dog then the better it is for everyone - both them AND other dog owners.

99.99% of my interactions with other dog owners and dogs are polite ones and very positive ones. But if I am put in a situation where being 'rude' protects both my dog and theirs, IMO I would rather take their ear bashing than their vet bills (or mine) and a possible dangerous dog classification for my dog.

Edited November 14, 2011 by espinay2

[espinay2]

Knew it wouldn't take long for a scenario to come up. Here it is. It seems that many on this thread would consider the owner of the GSD to be totally in the wrong for protecting her pup......