Weasels Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 ]I agree completely Corvus - I have a dog who runs up to people and dogs - with people she goes for a cuddle and with dogs she usually circles and play bows. I haven't had any complaints - only comments on how lovely and friendly she is. When Weez was younger he'd sometimes race off up the beach when he saw some ppl w/dogs, but he'd stop dead about 10m away (sniffing distance I guess) and unless it was someone he knew, turn around and race straight back again. I see plenty of dogs that race up and then slam themselves into a 'down' position to wait and see how the other dog reacts. It's actually quite cute. I don't ask people if we can approach either, but I just watch them cafefully and if they make any move at all to get their dog away i call mine back. If the dog is on a lead i initially assume they don't want to socialise unless they say otherwise. I'm lucky tho that my dogs aren't hugely fussed about greeting other dogs in the first place, I've seen others struggle with recall away from other dogs because nothing the person could offer them is of higher value than socialsing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Since when did people start thinking an offlead dog park means doggy playgroup? Sure,if its busy then you are not going to get left alone, but if you cant keep your dog from running the full length of the dog park to get to the only other dog there, then keep it on a long line, get some help training it, or at the very least don't be offended if your dog is hunted away! My dog's are friendly, but I might not always go to the park with the intent to have them play with other dogs, sometimes I like to go with the intent to have my dogs play offlead with me. Absolutely agree. To me walking on or off lead is training time for my dogs not playtime and I sure as hell do not want other dogs rushing up to play when I am training mine to ignore all distractions. Off lead areas are essential for this training. I need their full concentration when they are off lead to keep them safe and under control. If you want your dog to play with others, arrange a play group but don't expect that everyone wants your dog to play with their's and take offence when your obnoxious dog is not welcome near others. If I choose to let my dogs play with others it is when I where I want it to be and certainly not where I walk them. The idiotic and selfish attitude of those who think it their right to let their dog rush at others have ruined much of the pleasure of dog ownership. As a child I walked my dog all over the district and was never approached by other dogs (except one nasty little Scottie round the corner) but now walking in the street is no longer possible due to the dogs rushing out to attack any passing dog. Now I have to drive to parks and try to pick quiet times and even then I still get the odd irresponsible owner spoil our walks by having dogs rush at us in an aggressive manner. The well trained dogs stay with their owners and do not run screaming the length of the park to attack any dog they see. Most owners are fine and keep their dogs with them, either on or off lead but there are still lots of idiot owners out there who have no control over their dogs and spoil it for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasels Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Absolutely agree. To me walking on or off lead is training time for my dogs not playtime and I sure as hell do not want other dogs rushing up to play when I am training mine to ignore all distractions. Off lead areas are essential for this training. I need their full concentration when they are off lead to keep them safe and under control.. Maybe it's just me but I consider this scenario a great training opportunity. I love when another dog is pawing at Weez to play and he's focussed 100% on me makes me so proud. Then i'll generally release him to greet anyway. Daninbcs it sounds like you're in a bad area that hasn't been my experience of walking dogs at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Absolutely agree. To me walking on or off lead is training time for my dogs not playtime and I sure as hell do not want other dogs rushing up to play when I am training mine to ignore all distractions. Off lead areas are essential for this training. I need their full concentration when they are off lead to keep them safe and under control.. Maybe it's just me but I consider this scenario a great training opportunity. I love when another dog is pawing at Weez to play and he's focussed 100% on me makes me so proud. Then i'll generally release him to greet anyway. Daninbcs it sounds like you're in a bad area that hasn't been my experience of walking dogs at all. It is very difficult to train when another dog won't leave yours alone. And when your dog then does not weant to play with the annoying dog who is getting in its face and tells it so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasels Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 ]It is very difficult to train when another dog won't leave yours alone. And when your dog then does not weant to play with the annoying dog who is getting in its face and tells it so? Again I must be lucky, in my experience the owner generally appears after a minute or so to collect their dog. Otherwise I havea 'go' command and my dogs can outrun most others I live in a fairly small community tho and I fully realise it's different when you have new ppl coming and going or if you own dogs with a different temperament But I do still try to look for the positives in experiences 'out in the world' and try to turn them into training opportunities as much as I can. Dogs in the 'burbs have to deal with a lot of random stuff, I try to proof them against as much of it as i can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 I've had dogs hang around when I am training despite me telling the owners to come and get them, dogs that make a beeline for me from the other side of the park when we are training, dogs that the owners can't recall and that follow us when I try to move away to find a spot to do some training Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anniek Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 I can read them fine and that is why I'm yelling at them. The dogs that are running towards me are not under any control (usually owners are yelling at their dogs to no avail) and even if they appear friendly (which some of them do) I still don't want them jumping all over my dog and possibly having a fight start. I am trying to protect my dog from the many people who don't have a clue about dog body language. To me it is obvious that my dog is not comfortable in being approached by strange dogs but unfortunately there are a lot of dogs and owners out there who think that because there dog is 'friendly' that it is fine to run up to any dog it wishes. If a fight broke out or my dog did bite their dog I am terrified that because my dog is a Dobe that he will be the one blamed and I will lose him. Maybe if people had better fences, knew a little more about dogs etc then I wouldn't have to yell at them. BTW I rarely do yell, only if the dog approaching is out of control/ignoring it's owner or looks like it's intentions are questionable. My own dog has a great recall and doesn't approach other dogs when he is off lead, he listens to me and I have a fair bit of confidence in him but I don't know these other dogs and therefore I would rather prevent something from happening before it has a chance to. from me and mine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 I do about 95% of my training in the dog park or other places where off leash dogs are a pretty regular occurrence. Given my dogs are quite social, it was initially difficult to manage my training sessions when other dogs were coming to visit all the time and my dogs were off leash so they could ditch me abruptly at any moment. But it wasn't impossible and I worked at it and now my dogs do pretty well training through and around dogs visiting dogs. A lot of people apologise for their dogs disrupting my training. I always shrug it off. If I had a problem with their dogs interrupting my training sessions, I'd train somewhere else. It's my responsibility to manage my training sessions so my dogs are set up to win. Loose dogs are an environmental variable I have to manage, just like ducks and herons and children kicking balls and people with kite surfing gear and model aeroplanes and chicken bones on the ground and so on. Like Weasels, to me they are training opportunities. Even the dogs that hang around trying to get their head into my treat bag and can't be called away. It's embarassing for the owners. If it gets really annoying and the owner isn't doing anything and my dogs still want to train, I just start rewarding the dog for holding a sit-stay while I train around them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anniek Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 What about dogs that are prone to getting anxious around other dogs but do not react aggressively? easy, the rude owners of the rude dogs would say it shouldn't be there. My nervous old girl did love her walks but those rude dogs did have the potential to ruin it for her, hence my carrying a riding crop and using it. Off lead area near a river = free for all. ETA I gave up walking this dog cause there were just too many idiots to contend with. She made do with runs with the greyhounds at the slipping track ;) Hang on, does the above mean that you would walk your girl in an off lead area, and if another dog ran up to her to "say hello" (yes rude but with no aggression) you would hit the other dog with the riding crop? I know I would and dogs that run up to mine get the boot. me too absolutely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 I can read them fine and that is why I'm yelling at them. Sorry, I must have somehow misunderstood "How do I know if they are friendly or not?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 I can read them fine and that is why I'm yelling at them. Sorry, I must have somehow misunderstood "How do I know if they are friendly or not?" Isn't it better to be safe than sorry though Especially if your dog has had previous bad experiences and you think it might react? Surely people have the right to bring their dog to a park and not be annoyed by other people or dogs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anniek Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Getting back to the OP Those who use offlead parks: If your dog runs up to another dog after the owner has asked you to call your dog away - and your dog is bitten because the two dogs did not get along - do you consider it the fault of the dog onlead or the fault of your offlead dog who you did not call back? I guess I should call the Council and ask them also. A lady I know was minding her own business walking her two large breed dogs on lead down the street. Whilst bending over to pick up poop a small fluffy dog appeared from no-where and raced up to her dogs giving them a fright. One of her dogs had a chomp. The vet bill came to thousands, small dog died. Lady of large dogs was threatened with having both of her dogs seized and destroyed despite no DNA to proove which/both dogs did what. Lady lawyered up and went to court. She got to keep her dogs but had to pay vet bll for small dog. Apparently although the small dog was illegally offlead, the big dogs were the greater of the two evils. So - I will do anything and everything - kick, scream at, flogg any dog that gets within a couple of metres of my onlead dogs. I do not give a rats if people think I am stupid or paranoid, I will not put my dogs in danger of being seized and destroyed because of some other persons "friendly" dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 That is terrible AnnieK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 So - I will do anything and everything - kick, scream at, flogg any dog that gets within a couple of metres of my onlead dogs. I do not give a rats if people think I am stupid or paranoid, I will not put my dogs in danger of being seized and destroyed because of some other persons "friendly" dog. This is it exactly. How dare someone potentially put not only their own dog but also mine at risk Don't people get it? There are TOO MANY UNKNOWNS when you allow a dog to approach another unknown dog in this fashion. For the safety of BOTH dogs, greeting strange dogs need to be MANAGED and have the AGREEMENT OF BOTH OWNERS. You may be lucky and get away with it, but who will be screaming the loudest if something DOES happen? Yes, I am shouting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inevitablue Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Oh yay, every dog that comes bounding up to me with a lolling tongue and a happy expression is not going to be a concern for me. Probably true for 95% of dogs, but I care enough about my dogs, ESPECIALLY while they are only puppies, to not risk the 5%. That dog might be a big happy bundle of friendliness until it realizes mine is an entire male. Plenty of dogs are cool, until something doesn't go their way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Isn't it better to be safe than sorry though Isn't everyone trying to do that? But what I think is 'safe' is not the same as what other people think is 'safe'. That will depend on previous experience, mostly. Surely people have the right to bring their dog to a park and not be annoyed by other people or dogs? The right, yes, the expectation, no. If you go into a dog park expecting that your right to use it unmolested from other dogs will be upheld, you're going to end up cross. The control people are expecting others to have over their dogs is not easy to achieve. Off leash control in a stimulating environment is about as hard as it gets from a training perspective. People will struggle with it, and most will never really achieve it, particularly those with very friendly dogs. I don't think that should mean their dogs miss out on their exercise. I am a good enough trainer that I can keep my own dogs under control and manage other people's wayward dogs at the same time. Picking up the slack is not that hard. You only need a good down or sit, and maybe a good heel or equivalent for exiting. Or just a hand with which you can take hold of another dog's collar and merely wait until the owner comes and gets the dog. That'll do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esky the husky Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Most of the ones I've been to say that the dog must be under effective control or leashed (even though it's an offlead park) So I guess the inference is that only dogs under effective control are legally allowed off lead. I would hope that could work to your advantage in these kinds of scenarios, but who knows? I manage to pick a time when no one else is around to allow for free running. I leave or wait until it's free otherwise. I don't have a 100% recall, but I need these parks to practice it in ;) If someone asked you to call your dog away, and your dog did not respond to your recall, would you walk/run to your dog to stop it approaching? If your dog gets bitten, because your dog and the other dog (onlead) do not get along, do you consider it the fault of your dog or the other dog, or would it depend on any physical damage to your dog? Thank you! Yes, if she did not respond I would approach her and remove her as required. Esky was bitten once, a guy decided to approach us, both on leash because his dog was a bit ' whatever excuse he used' . He approached, dog got within sniffing distance, lunged straight at her neck Needless to say he made his excuses to leave quite swiftly. In that case I consider it his fault, especially being aware of his dogs issues. If my dog had been hurt I would be taking it up with him. If Esky on the other hand was being rude and pushing another dogs buttons, I have no issues with the other dog giving her a warning to back down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Every dog I have had attacked has been an entire male and every dog that has run across a park to attack them has also been an entire male, all of the people on here that have only had desexed dogs have no idea what life is like with entire dogs. My alpha females have always tried to protect the rest of their pack when out walking but it is always the boys that actually get attacked. Most of the off lead dogs I encounter do not have an owner with them or the owner is at least several hundred metres away when the dog launches into attack mode as soon as it sees another dog, so asking the owner to call their dog is not an option. I have never really worried about small dogs because my BCs never saw them as any sort of threat but I did have a small foxie type sneak up and bite one dog on the back leg. Startled, my dog gave chase and the foxie ran across the road, just missed by a car. Luckily my boy was trained in an emergency drop and after me screaming drop like a banshee he dropped at the gutter of the busy road. I wouldn't be bothered by puppies under 6 months either because all my dogs have been good with puppies but anything older around the size of my dogs or larger will never get a chance to get near them again. Now I have a smaller dog as well the size I worry about will come down as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inevitablue Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 No one expects to have the park all to themselves, and certainly dogs will be dogs. However if I am obviously training or enjoying some play time with my dog in the far corner, and another person arrives at the park thinking its ok to do nothing to try and prevent their dog from running over to 'just say hi', then that is rude and ignorant. Just because I'm in the dog park with my dog doesn't mean I went there seeking playmates for my dog. Legally it's the only place I can exercise my dog offlead in public. Perhaps that's the reason I went to the dog park. I'm sure my dog really appreciated the two larger pitty types (an entire dog and a bitch) standing over her, not allowing her out of a submissive position. But hey! they ran up all happy and excited because they knew they would get some canine interaction. Doesn't mean it's going to be good interaction for my dog. Yay for the owner who finally comes over and pulls his dogs off mine. Was there a fight? No. Did my dog benefit from the interaction? Not really. Did that owner think it was ok to allow his dogs to race up to mine? Yes. My dogs get enough interaction at training, at shows, at herding, with my friends dogs. I don't need to tolerate strangers dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Oh yay, every dog that comes bounding up to me with a lolling tongue and a happy expression is not going to be a concern for me. Probably true for 95% of dogs, but I care enough about my dogs, ESPECIALLY while they are only puppies, to not risk the 5%. That dog might be a big happy bundle of friendliness until it realizes mine is an entire male. Plenty of dogs are cool, until something doesn't go their way. That happy bounding dog, eventually gets in the middle of my pack and inevitably injuries occur to my own dogs. They always manage to get a lead caught around a leg or pull the wrong way. I;ve had chiro bills from Mr Bouncy. More often than not, Mr Bouncy turns out to be rude or aggressive and starts something with my dogs and I'm left trying to sort it out, while the idiot owner yells out " ohhh he's friendly" I no longer tolerate dogs within kicking distance of my dogs. I tell the owners to call their dog or it will get kicked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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