Kaffy Magee Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 (edited) A little while ago I emailed the local obedience club about classes. I really want to trial my boy and figured he could do with the experience of training alongside other dogs and distractions, which may not even be an issue. I explained what experience I have and how much my dog knows and I was told I had to do a 6 week basic course for $100 and then could do normal classes for $5 a session. Anyway I left it because I refuse to pay $100 for me and my dog to be "taught" stuff we already know and are beyond. Anyway tonight I went along without dog just to watch. They had two classes , the beginners and the advanced. There was a young boy with a young cattle dog and it had a bark and a bit of a snap at another dog. Next thing the instructor is whisking it off and fits it with a halti! Then I hear her say " he was being dominant" and "now he realizes he's not in control". as he was trying to get it off. Anyway the instructor drags the dog off and around the place so as not to give it a chance to fight the halti. I ask the boys the mother sitting next to me how long they have been coming and she said it was their first night! It was then I noticed that all but one dog in the beginners class had haltis on the next thing I noticed was there was no food rewarding. I asked the lady next to me about the no treats( and no toys either) and she said they arent allowed to have them. As the night went on I watched these miserable bored confused little creatures get dragged around by their faces, pushed into sits and not a word of praise, not a happy voice to be heard, no reward for what they were doing and not one looked happy, like it was enjoying itself, no tails wagging, nothing. I also noticed in the advanced group they all had clickers, which I have no problem with clicker training but he fact they all had them makes me think they have to use them. Anyway I asked the lady next to me who also shared my concerns, about the training club in the next town, 25minutes away as I would have gone there but apparently it's run by the same people. as you can probably guess I won't be joining. However what do I do? The next closest club is over an hour away. I am really keen to trial but it's really not practical or economical or even possible to travel that far every week. Has anyone trialled their dog without going to obedience classes? Can one learn what's required for more advanced obedience from videos? I'm really disappointed, i think being part of a club is extremely beneficial. I'm no expert and would need further guidance in the more advanced stuff. Does anyone have any ideas? Edited November 10, 2011 by Kaffy Magee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 you can use videos, then go to the club every few weeks for a tweak and practical lesson. Good quality videos are quite a good resource, I do love the Leerburg ones, also a lot on youtube (not saying it's the best resource, but can be good to also see what NOT to do ) Really what you want is the learning theory (rewards, timing etc), once you get that down pat you can teach anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I think you're better off training on your own, particularly if you want to trial Realistically no beginner dog can focus for 30 mins and personally for a trialling dog I'd rather have 5 or 10 mins of complete focus and good work than 30mins to an hour of distracted, sloppy work (especially with no reward! ) I would use the club as training for distraction once you have the basics but I'd insist I be allowed to use food/toy rewards and be allowed to take short breaks- even if it means I have to step aside and miss some of the class. I am curious- if they don't reward the dog, how do they use the clicker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I think you're better off training on your own, particularly if you want to trial Realistically no beginner dog can focus for 30 mins and personally for a trialling dog I'd rather have 5 or 10 mins of complete focus and good work than 30mins to an hour of distracted, sloppy work (especially with no reward! ) I would use the club as training for distraction once you have the basics but I'd insist I be allowed to use food/toy rewards and be allowed to take short breaks- even if it means I have to step aside and miss some of the class. I am curious- if they don't reward the dog, how do they use the clicker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I think you're better off training on your own, particularly if you want to trial Realistically no beginner dog can focus for 30 mins and personally for a trialling dog I'd rather have 5 or 10 mins of complete focus and good work than 30mins to an hour of distracted, sloppy work (especially with no reward! ) I would use the club as training for distraction once you have the basics but I'd insist I be allowed to use food/toy rewards and be allowed to take short breaks- even if it means I have to step aside and miss some of the class. I am curious- if they don't reward the dog, how do they use the clicker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I think you're better off training on your own, particularly if you want to trial Realistically no beginner dog can focus for 30 mins and personally for a trialling dog I'd rather have 5 or 10 mins of complete focus and good work than 30mins to an hour of distracted, sloppy work (especially with no reward! ) I would use the club as training for distraction once you have the basics but I'd insist I be allowed to use food/toy rewards and be allowed to take short breaks- even if it means I have to step aside and miss some of the class. I am curious- if they don't reward the dog, how do they use the clicker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Panzer Attack! Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I don't like my club for reasons I won't air on here and work basically every Sunday ever so can't join any of the local ones so I train at home. We're at the point where OH (who instructs agility and has done obedience work with his dog) says we would pass CCD with flying colours. We don't trial because I work every weekend ever lol. There are some amazing videos on youtube but I actually found the training forums here incredibly helpful. I am a complete training newb but my dog is coming along in leaps and bounds E x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaffy Magee Posted November 10, 2011 Author Share Posted November 10, 2011 Nekh Im not sure they would allow me to train in with them everynow and then for "tweaking" unless I paid my $100 and did the 6 week course. They are also on their own grounds too I think, so I dont think I could just go along and train next to them as if it were public land. I'll check out some videos though. Aussielover, Im not %100 sure how they were rewarding the dogs that were using clickers. When I first noticed the clickers I dont recall seeing anyone treat their dog after clicking, but I wasnt really paying attention too much to what they were doing. No one had treat pouches on from memory though. I might take some video of Chase and I soon and post it up to get some feedback, but we do really need to try it under distraction first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I meant the one that is over an hour away you could always give it a go and see if they have some strategies for home training and sporadic visits. I wouldnt go to any club that 'bans' things for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaffy Magee Posted November 10, 2011 Author Share Posted November 10, 2011 Ohhhh, der Sounds like a good idea...I might send them an email and see what they say. I honestly couldnt believe this club. They try and make everyone do it "their" way. Not what works best for the dog and handler and I just couldnt believe how quick she was to put a halti on the cattle dog puppy and then to see all but one, wearing them. Im sure haltis have their place but I can guarantee most if not all those dogs didnt need one. Just a quick fix imo. Anyways I will be sure to hang aorund in here, theres lots to learn! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 it sounds like the most mixed up club I have heard of yet everyone uses haltis, then clickers, but no food/toy rewards, no praise? WTF honestly. You HAVE to PM me who runs this club. I'm the praise Nazi at training, if I can't hear you praising your dog or you keep yanking/yelling at it you will know about it. We want wagging tails and focus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsdog2 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 it sounds like the most mixed up club I have heard of yet everyone uses haltis, then clickers, but no food/toy rewards, no praise? WTF honestly. You HAVE to PM me who runs this club. I'm the praise Nazi at training, if I can't hear you praising your dog or you keep yanking/yelling at it you will know about it. We want wagging tails and focus Sooooo let me get this right ........ in the beginners class there's no rewards, but in the advance class they're using clickers?? How does that work? If there's no rewards allowed what happens after they click? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 If there's no rewards allowed what happens after they click? ... and to this day the question remains eternally unanswered *queue the creepy music* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsdog2 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 If there's no rewards allowed what happens after they click? ... and to this day the question remains eternally unanswered *queue the creepy music* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Hmmm given your in Qld I wonder if its where I think it is - only because I know somebody who moved there and helps instruct at a club (and uses clickers) when the rest of the club doesn't. So think she runs one of the Advanced groups which would explain the clickers and I can assure you they use rewards as well. Although I might be totally wrong . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caesars mum Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Kate, my daughter started at one of the private clubs up there in the next town, before she moved here to Brisbane, I will find out which one and let you know. She also did not like the one in your town. Also daughter has some great videos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fox Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Sounds like my early obedience club experience. Dog pulls? it needs a halti. Dog barks? it needs a husher. Dog sniffs the ground? Vicks under his nose. Prong collars are EVIL, you're rewarding too much, you're doing it wrong, brace your arm and hold his head up, your dog is being defiant. now let them all play and run wild then drag them back in for a recall.. Argh! No wonder we stopped going. I'd train at home then go to the better club for mock trials and occasional proofing if they'll let you . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Dog sniffs the ground? Vicks under his nose. what the hell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fox Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Dog sniffs the ground? Vicks under his nose. what the hell? Mmm hmmm :rolleyes: Fat lot of good that would have done for a stress related behaviour too.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemyrottie Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Sounds like my early obedience club experience. Dog pulls? it needs a halti. Dog barks? it needs a husher. Dog sniffs the ground? Vicks under his nose. Prong collars are EVIL, you're rewarding too much, you're doing it wrong, brace your arm and hold his head up, your dog is being defiant. now let them all play and run wild then drag them back in for a recall.. Argh! No wonder we stopped going. I'd train at home then go to the better club for mock trials and occasional proofing if they'll let you . all sounds a bit too familiar! no wonder you stopped going and to be honest, sometimes i feel like stopping too. the vicks under their nose or chest area apparently makes them think twice about sniffing something because they dislike the vicks scent each time they put their heads down to sniff, it's exactly what they told us to do too at obedience if we've got a dog that loves to sniff everything when walking. i'm getting rather sick of my obedience classes for the same reason as you mentioned above, along with the fact that classes run for 45 minutes and my dog gets bored as hell then stops focusing while the instructor demands we keep going, arrrgh! anyway, sorry i went off-topic to vent about my experience. back to the original post... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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