bjazld Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 (edited) Im after some advice, after making it through the whelping and first 11 days, I have 5 lovely bubba's (this is my first litter). One of them is clearly the runt. She weighs and is much smaller than the other 4 that are fat and gaining weight much quicker than she is,the last few days the other 4 have been gaining even more weight and they look so much bigger than her its more of a concern now than 4 or 5 days ago. I guess i just wanted to know should I supplement her? she is gaining weight but slowly, however tonight she hasnt put on anything from this morning I have divetalac. my breeder said not to worry that at least she is gaining weight she is outgoing sparky little girl with loads of personality, but i question how much milk she is actually getting from the boob, she seems to struggle to stay on even when i feed her separtely from the other 4 and i think she gives up as it tires her. she shows no signs of dehydration. Edited November 4, 2011 by bjazld Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mini girl Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 My old mentor told me that when you get a little one like this to pull one of the bigger ones off a nipple so the milk is running and put her on that one and hold her there for a while so she can really get hold - usually the lower down nipples seem to have more milk. I have often given the little ones a drop of formular to get them over the hump - but if she is not going backwards - when they start to go back then its really a worry - I've fed little ones like this every two hours but usually a lot younger than 10 days. In my present litter the smallest by a good bit still seems to be getting her share weighed them all today for worming and she is lighter than all the others but a spunky little thing - keep weighing her and if you do need to top her up just a little often is a much better way to go. Get used to the worries that go with breeding - I was just going to put a post on about my latest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
becks Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Have you got any puppy stim paste or I've forgotten the name of those molasses drops that will give pup an energy boost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjazld Posted November 4, 2011 Author Share Posted November 4, 2011 no i dont have any molases/paste....bugger! only nutrigel and corn syrup Ive been putting the bigger pups on the nipples first to bring the milk down, and rotating them all, the other pups dont need help at all they feed themselves i would rather intervene early rather than later. being a nurse myself i always think prevention is always better than trying to cure something when its happened. being sleep deprived makes me more anxious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileys mum Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 (edited) I know exactly how you feel atm bjazld....With my last litter (9 puppies ) I had a much smaller puppy that put on weight at a slower rate than the rest of the puppies. Like your puppy she had heaps of personality & was very feisty, but was obviously much smaller & seemed to gain the least weight every day. I asked my vet about supplementing & he told me aslong as she was gaining weight (even small amounts ) & not going backwards, then he would just let her be for now. Despite her size she seemed very strong to me & not dehydrated, so I just made sure she got extra time on the better boobs at the back & she continued to gain weight at a slow rate. When I started weaning the litter at 3.5 weeks that's when her weight gain took of in leaps & bounds & she never looked back after that.By the time she was 8 weeks old she was still my smallest puppy, but not too far away from her brother & sisters. Her owners just sent me pics of her the other day (she is nearly 7 months old now ) & she has turned out absolutely stunning & is very healthy. So my advice is just to make sure she has extra time on the good boobs (make sure that her bigger siblings aren't bullying her & pushing her off ) & keep weighing her twice a day.If she does start going backwards then maybe it wouldn't do any harm to top her up with a bit of formula. Have you asked your vet for advice?....Might be a good idea mentioning her to your vet & see what they say. I know how worrying it can be to have a little one that's obviously much smaller than the other pups & I hope she continues to put on weight & grows stronger & ends up thriving for you. ETA: if you have some Nutrigel,I suppose it won't do any harm to give her a couple of drops to give her some energy. Edited November 4, 2011 by Baileys mum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjazld Posted November 4, 2011 Author Share Posted November 4, 2011 i have spoken to my vet every few days, he said last time i spoke to him much less the same, as long as she isnt going backwards....but i havent spoken to him for a few days (have actually felt things going ok apart from this little girl being slower to gain) i guess i needed to read a few experienced breeders reassurance or advice I dont even have a large litter! thats why i was also wondering why she isnt gaining as much as fast.. thanks for replying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 I hope she just turns out to be small and not ill. When pups are very small and thin looking, I'd be having her heart checked as soon as she's big enough, as there's every chance she has a serious heart murmur. Sometimes they are just small but often it's an indication of a more serious issue such as the heart, liver , digestive system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjazld Posted November 4, 2011 Author Share Posted November 4, 2011 pav lova; their are no clear signs to me the puppy is unwell at this time, she doesnt look thin, well their are no ribs showing or any other boney prominences, but i will get her fully checked when she is older. I did have something like that in the back of my mind also but i was thinking digestive or absorbtion rather than cardiac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
becks Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 no i dont have any molases/paste....bugger! only nutrigel and corn syrup Ive been putting the bigger pups on the nipples first to bring the milk down, and rotating them all, the other pups dont need help at all they feed themselves i would rather intervene early rather than later. being a nurse myself i always think prevention is always better than trying to cure something when its happened. being sleep deprived makes me more anxious Nutridrops or nutrigel is what I was thinking of! Give the pup some of that a few times a day to keep her energy up. (read the ingredients and there is molasses in them!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 I would take the puppy to the vet for a quick check over anyway. If there is a small cleft palette or heart problem you may not know. Probably not but it may set your mind at ease so you don't worry so much. Hope your puppy thrives. It's a pain when this happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjazld Posted November 4, 2011 Author Share Posted November 4, 2011 the pups were checked when they were a few hours old as we had our bitch at the vet as she popped out less pups than what was shown on scan so had some oxytocin and some Ab's. the vet definately checked all pups for cleft palates as he mentioned it and i do recall him listening to their chests the only thing he commented on was their cords were cut to short.....except i only cut 1...mum got 2 sac's off and 3 came out without placenta's and the cords were right down to their stomachs, they are all fine though 11 days later, no infections. i guess they were way to young though to detect a heart mumour? she has gained a little more weight this morning will just keep doing what ive been doing overnight with her. becks i gave her a little of the nutrigel off of my finger she likes it! (mum loves it too) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaY Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 What was her weight compared to the others when born? If she was smaller then them, it makes sense that she will be smaller for quite some time. If she is not sick and putting on weight I would not worry. I have always been told a runt puppy is a sickly and small puppy, not just the smallest in the litter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Baggins Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 bjazld the pup should put on 10% of its birth weight a day and be double by 10 days. Hence a 100 gram pup will put on 10 grams a day and 200grams by 10 days. So any thing above 10% is a bonus. Slightly under is okay majorly under then a concern. A small pup does have to be watched as the bigger ones will elbow it out. I usually take the big ones away for a wile after a feed and leave the small ones to have a topup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjazld Posted November 5, 2011 Author Share Posted November 5, 2011 thanks bilbo baggins and swayd birth weight their was a 90gram+ difference between her and 3 of the other pups and a 50 g diff between her and her and 1 other girl (who is now my biggest girl, 2nd biggest pup) i definately realise the smaller ones will gain less/not be as big as their siblings, she is petite. I just was more looking for suggestions in case we went backwards rather than forwards. Someone on here has kindly given some great advice via a PM and i think although i was aware of it i wasnt being diligent or strict enough (my fault), and this arvo she is looking fatter already. Birth wt doubled was just under by 10 grams at day 10. the 10% perday and double weight by 10 days is very helpful, as much as i have read or tried to read on every aspect i can i dont recall reading this....however as a weak excuse my fatigue is high so i think when i am reading things the last week I am missing important points *sigh* thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Baggins Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 thanks bilbo baggins and swayd birth weight their was a 90gram+ difference between her and 3 of the other pups and a 50 g diff between her and her and 1 other girl (who is now my biggest girl, 2nd biggest pup) i definately realise the smaller ones will gain less/not be as big as their siblings, she is petite. I just was more looking for suggestions in case we went backwards rather than forwards. Someone on here has kindly given some great advice via a PM and i think although i was aware of it i wasnt being diligent or strict enough (my fault), and this arvo she is looking fatter already. Birth wt doubled was just under by 10 grams at day 10. the 10% perday and double weight by 10 days is very helpful, as much as i have read or tried to read on every aspect i can i dont recall reading this....however as a weak excuse my fatigue is high so i think when i am reading things the last week I am missing important points *sigh* thanks There you go she was all good. Have a read of theses, not the one I read originally. http://www.bobtail.ru/text/oes/puppy_e.htm http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+1659+1651&aid=916 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjazld Posted November 5, 2011 Author Share Posted November 5, 2011 thanks have added both to my collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shazzapug Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 I have a maiden pug bitch at the moment...one of her 4 puppies was slipping back or not gaining as much as his siblings. We are lucky and I milk dairy goats, so for a few days I topped him up on raw goats milk every day...this then made him a bit stronger to compete and he is now catching back up to his siblings. I have found tho that her front teats have been the bigger easy let down on them than the back teats. What breed are your babies at 90gms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyosha Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 I had 2 little ones in our last (very large) litter. One never looked back after a slow start at birth. The other weakened quickly when mum had slow milk supply. He started to drop off the nipple and not suckle so vigorously rapidly. The others never showed the same signs. The thing to watch is that smaller pups don't have the reserves of bigger, plumper ones. So if a little pup has just one or two feeds where they get bumped off the boob a bit their energy levels can drop faster than expected. It becomes a vicious cycle and the weaker they are the less the suck, etc etc. It isn't necessarily a health problem, just an increasing cycle of weak feeding after a minor setback they aren't physically equipped for. Any little pup I have that starts to drop off the nipple without having a full belly I top up for a few feeds, then watch again. Usually that is all they need. My little one? At four months now he is smaller than his biggest brothers, but within normal range, and heavier than his sisters. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Five is sufficiently small that the pup shouldn't have much trouble getting onto some teat. I'm a little compulsive with pups (though I've only had one litter with less than seven) and can't help myself from taking the little guys and sticking them on the milkier teats. I only lost one runt . . . and this happened suddenly at week seven after he was well along to catching up with the others. I have no idea what happened. They usually pull through just fine. And a large fraction of puppy buyers want the runt . . . so don't worry about finding a home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjazld Posted November 5, 2011 Author Share Posted November 5, 2011 she has gained again this morning , last night when i put them all on for a feed at around 2300 hrs, all of them were sucking like mad as if they werent getting much from mum (constantly kneading the teats and moving off and on diff ones) and they all stayed on her for ages and all of them seemed cranky and unsettled..this went on for over an hour so i ended up topping her up (the runt) with a little goats milk, she gobbled it up then settled and slept for few hours, then she seemed fine on mum for the next feed and we had a fairly good night... no she definately gets on the teat! she pushes the others off as they push her off also, she is not fatigued at all...she has alot of spark she is my fav i dont want anything to happen to her....i will be gutted if it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts