Dominance In The Dog Park

[Mason_Gibbs]

Bad mannered dogs are part and parcel of the dog park scene.

If you don't like it and appreciate the risks, don't go there.

I tend to agree with this there are idiot owners out there that dont know a thing so if you take your dogs they will encounter wild out of control dogs - its not right but its part and parcel of dog parks

[Mason_Gibbs]

I think they were referring to him being a pup in terms of growth?

But he should have conmpleted growth at this age or be very near to physical maturity anyway, so 17 months for desexing is fine.

Guide dogs are generally in full training or working by 18 months and assistance dogs even earlier, so I think in regard to behaviour- 17 months is certainly not still a puppy.

I disagree - you should have control of your dog by now with recall but labs are hyper excited etc for longer than 17 months...

[aussielover]

I wouldnt be tying up a dog in a dog park. If an off leash dog approaches your tethered dog you could be in for one hell of a fight as a tethered dog is essentially in the same position as a cornered dog, with no option for escape.

Obviously not right near other dogs i find a quiet spot

Could you not just put the dog back on lead take them away from other dogs and make them sit quietly next to you?

Then you can just let the lead go if there is a problem?

I am thinking this dog should be on a long lead and not allowed to approach other dogs for the time being.

Perhaps a trainer or behaviourist who can observe your dog IN PERSON may be more helpful.

Do you do obedience or any other dog sport? You could ask an instructor for advice?

I also find a lot of labs need a job to do, or an activity to keep their mind busy, otherwise they can become very naughty and full-on.

[aussielover]

I think they were referring to him being a pup in terms of growth?

But he should have conmpleted growth at this age or be very near to physical maturity anyway, so 17 months for desexing is fine.

Guide dogs are generally in full training or working by 18 months and assistance dogs even earlier, so I think in regard to behaviour- 17 months is certainly not still a puppy.

I disagree - you should have control of your dog by now with recall but labs are hyper excited etc for longer than 17 months...

I don't know, while they retain their puppy-like playfulness and enthusiasm, this is not the same as actually being a puppy and having the learning capacity and self control of a puppy.

I think at this age, most labs are mature enough to contain themselves and respond to commands. They must have pretty decent self control and focus for orgs such as guide dogs, assist dogs and customs to be expecting them to be working in public at this age...

[raineth]

I think they were referring to him being a pup in terms of growth?

But he should have conmpleted growth at this age or be very near to physical maturity anyway, so 17 months for desexing is fine.

Guide dogs are generally in full training or working by 18 months and assistance dogs even earlier, so I think in regard to behaviour- 17 months is certainly not still a puppy.

I disagree - you should have control of your dog by now with recall but labs are hyper excited etc for longer than 17 months...

I don't know, while they retain their puppy-like playfulness and enthusiasm, this is not the same as actually being a puppy and having the learning capacity and self control of a puppy.

I think at this age, most labs are mature enough to contain themselves and respond to commands. They must have pretty decent self control and focus for orgs such as guide dogs, assist dogs and customs to be expecting them to be working in public at this age...

that's true but not all labs have the qualities to become assistance/guide/customs dogs

[Rebanne]

I think they were referring to him being a pup in terms of growth?

But he should have conmpleted growth at this age or be very near to physical maturity anyway, so 17 months for desexing is fine.

Guide dogs are generally in full training or working by 18 months and assistance dogs even earlier, so I think in regard to behaviour- 17 months is certainly not still a puppy.

I disagree - you should have control of your dog by now with recall but labs are hyper excited etc for longer than 17 months...

lots of dogs are hyper excited all their lives but they are not puppies all their lives and it should not be used as an excuse for poor or rude behaviour.

I can't put up the link to Suzanne Clothiers excellent article " He Just Wants To say Hi" as it appears the web site is currently down, but all dog owners should read it.

[Ellinnet]

I think they were referring to him being a pup in terms of growth?

But he should have conmpleted growth at this age or be very near to physical maturity anyway, so 17 months for desexing is fine.

Guide dogs are generally in full training or working by 18 months and assistance dogs even earlier, so I think in regard to behaviour- 17 months is certainly not still a puppy.

I disagree - you should have control of your dog by now with recall but labs are hyper excited etc for longer than 17 months...

I don't know, while they retain their puppy-like playfulness and enthusiasm, this is not the same as actually being a puppy and having the learning capacity and self control of a puppy.

I think at this age, most labs are mature enough to contain themselves and respond to commands. They must have pretty decent self control and focus for orgs such as guide dogs, assist dogs and customs to be expecting them to be working in public at this age...

that's true but not all labs have the qualities to become assistance/guide/customs dogs

This was my thought as well. I doubt my Lab would have been suitable.

[aussielover]

But ALL puppies are put through the training program which includes behaviour in public. If "most" labs weren't mature enough then they would either choose another breed or wait until the dogs ar eolder to put them thru the training. I was told labs were chosen because they are actually quick to mature.

The failed dogs are not always failed for bad behaviour, more often its because they are fearful or have health issues. They often say that the worst behaved, naughtiest puppies often surprise everyone and make the best workers

Customs and police sniffer labs are very high drive dogs.

[Agility Dogs]

lots of dogs are hyper excited all their lives but they are not puppies all their lives and it should not be used as an excuse for poor or rude behaviour.

I can't put up the link to Suzanne Clothiers excellent article " He Just Wants To say Hi" as it appears the web site is currently down, but all dog owners should read it.

[jacqui835]

Geesh Rebanne - I'm glad walkers like you are in the minority. Most people have a shade more understanding in their character. And read up on Labs - 17 months IS a pup.

Thanks to those who have provided helpful, constructive input.

This forum is obviously the wrong place to ask for support from those with experience - you're much more likely to end up with judgement and a condescending lecture.

17 months is definitely still a pup, and they have a lot of energy (mine is 18 months and bigger and according to his breeder he won't be an adult until 3!) I'm sorry you've had a bad experience here, I wanted to say good on you for asking for advice in the first place (not everyone does) and obviously wanting to change your dog's behaviour.

I think more training is a good idea and could be fun for you and your dog, but something I would add. From watching Cesar Milan (I know not everyone agrees with him, but I'm a fan and have had good results), I would say what you need to do is exercise your dog first, then train, then reward. I think a lot of people make the mistake of thinking, oh my dog is frisky, better take him to the dog park to burn off energy - and that is not what the dog park is for. In my case, I take my dog for a 15km bike ride, then I take him to the dog park because he is a social dog and enjoys interacting with others, but he is also a dominant dog and when he has a full tank of energy, he's a lot to handle.

I also find that after exercise, my dog is much more amenable to training. He listens, because we have just done a pack exercise (a long walk/bike ride) and he's too drained to muck up. I think labs are at least as energetic as dobermans (one of my dog's best friends is a choc lab and they wear us just from watching them...) so I would definitely recommend exercising your dog before visiting the dog park and see how you go.

ETA: it is still mentally a puppy, but that doesn't mean the behaviour is acceptable and it's good of you to want to make improvements.

Edited November 3, 2011 by jacqui835

[Mason_Gibbs]

I think they were referring to him being a pup in terms of growth?

But he should have conmpleted growth at this age or be very near to physical maturity anyway, so 17 months for desexing is fine.

Guide dogs are generally in full training or working by 18 months and assistance dogs even earlier, so I think in regard to behaviour- 17 months is certainly not still a puppy.

I disagree - you should have control of your dog by now with recall but labs are hyper excited etc for longer than 17 months...

I don't know, while they retain their puppy-like playfulness and enthusiasm, this is not the same as actually being a puppy and having the learning capacity and self control of a puppy.

I think at this age, most labs are mature enough to contain themselves and respond to commands. They must have pretty decent self control and focus for orgs such as guide dogs, assist dogs and customs to be expecting them to be working in public at this age...

that's true but not all labs have the qualities to become assistance/guide/customs dogs

A friend of mine has a lab thats nearly 3... She still acts like a puppy hasnt got any self control as yet - not for a lack of trying on the owners behalf either

[Mason_Gibbs]

But ALL puppies are put through the training program which includes behaviour in public. If "most" labs weren't mature enough then they would either choose another breed or wait until the dogs ar eolder to put them thru the training. I was told labs were chosen because they are actually quick to mature.

The failed dogs are not always failed for bad behaviour, more often its because they are fearful or have health issues. They often say that the worst behaved, naughtiest puppies often surprise everyone and make the best workers

Customs and police sniffer labs are very high drive dogs.

Masons sister is neatly 3 and is still in training as a Guide Dog, some mature slower than others

[corvus]

walkers like me are not in the minority

Oh dear... I beg to differ. I meet a lot of walkers who don't even know what rude dog behaviour looks like. If you know what it looks like, you're in the minority right there!

To the OP, I would consider the humping as a sign your dog is over-aroused. IME that is usually the problem. For all we know he can't really help it, because it's a behaviour that is coming out in response to his emotional state and his arousal level. It's a symptom rather than a problem in itself. You can punish it and that might work to squash the symptom, but my guess is it won't solve the underlying problem and other little niggling behavioural troubles will just keep popping up. If I were you, I would take humping to mean appropriate behaviour is largely out of his reach until he is a bit calmer. The first place to start is to get him some distance between him and the other dogs. That will lower the intensity of the situation and give him some space to breath so he can start thinking again. If he's trying to get at the other dogs, he's still too close. Move him far enough away that he's not obsessing over them. THEN you can start working on his behaviour. The problem for you is figuring out if he's over-excited around dogs because he wants to interact with them, or over-excited because he actually finds it all a bit anxiety-inducing. Honestly, you may not be able to tell until you get that distance. Once he's got room to think, then you'll see if he really wants to go to them or not. Take a step closer and see what he does. Does he surge towards them or hang back or stay with you?

[Nekhbet]

if you're lacking in the training side get those clackers out at the very least and get him doing obedience. Male Labs tend to be one of the greatest perpetrators of rude behaviours and especially the entire ones. I had one 12 month old entire male jump on my 6yo entire male Dogue de bordeaux's head recently, while he was laying on his side calmly. It's not the first male lab to do something provocative and silly like that towards him or my other dogs.

If your dog has no recall or vocal control NO offlead play in the park - lack of vocal control is against the law anyway as to what 'effective control' is deemed to be by your council and if a ranger saw that you could be fined. When he learns respect he can earn some freedoms. You cannot prevent what you cannot control at least verbally. Either that or he humps the wrong dog and its on for young and old.

[jakeyjangels]

Bad mannered dogs are part and parcel of the dog park scene.

If you don't like it and appreciate the risks, don't go there.

I tend to agree with this there are idiot owners out there that dont know a thing so if you take your dogs they will encounter wild out of control dogs - its not right but its part and parcel of dog parks

So true. I am dealing with an idiot owner at our local park at the moment whose dog is just a menace and the owner is in total denial.

If wasn't that my boys love going for the exercise & socialisation & because I have a leg injury & can't walk them ATM, I would have given the park a miss by now.

I choose my times & am very, very vigilant.

[corvus]

I wish people would stop referring to anyone who doesn't know as much about dog behaviour as they do as an idiot. Ignorance and idiocy are totally different things.

[persephone]

I wish people would stop referring to anyone who doesn't know as much about dog behaviour as they do as an idiot. Ignorance and idiocy are totally different things.

[poochiemama]

agree fully with corvus... all of us are learning constantly about dogs. We all had to learn somewhere, and good on the OP for seeking advice. I also think it's a bit insulting/rude to tell people who are asking for advice on this forum that their dog would get a swift kick in the head from them for rude behaviour...previous threads that have suggested that people would kick dogs in 'defence' were referring to dog fights or aggressive dogs, rather than in this context, where a dog is humping another.

to the OP, don't get put off asking for advice on the forums. I learnt the hard way that you get a lot of useful information on this forum, but you just have to ignore the negative/rude comments. Also, humping is quite a hard behaviour to correct by yourself, and it might be worthwhile getting a dog trainer to see him at the park - chances are that the humping is one of many other issues related to having a young lab (I've been there ). The trainer can help you with general doggie 'manners' - in the home and in the park.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

Your dog shouldn't be in a dog park I'm afraid, this type of behaviour is totally unacceptable and incites fights.

Undesexed dogs, whether humpers or not, cause issues in dog parks. I don't go these days but have been and seen enough and worked with dogs long enough to know.

Please desex your dog and train the dog in recall etc before taking into a dog park again.

[Rebanne]

agree fully with corvus... all of us are learning constantly about dogs. We all had to learn somewhere, and good on the OP for seeking advice. I also think it's a bit insulting/rude to tell people who are asking for advice on this forum that their dog would get a swift kick in the head from them for rude behaviour...previous threads that have suggested that people would kick dogs in 'defence' were referring to dog fights or aggressive dogs, rather than in this context, where a dog is humping another.

I never mentioned kicking a dog in the head, suggest you read the posts more carefully. Humping another dog is a very quick way to start a fight and I won't have mine injured just because of a very rude dog. Not to mention 35 kilo's of "puppy" throwing it's self onto another dogs back, head, wherever is not going to help the dog being jumped on. Defence is protecting your dog from another dog's behaviour.