Hefty Fine For Tail Docking

[Boronia]

http://www.gympietimes.com.au/story/2011/11/02/hefty-fine-for-tail-docking/

Hefty fine for tail docking

2nd November 2011

A GLENWOOD woman who promotes herself as a breeder of Rottweilers with natural bob-tails, was found guilty this morning in the Gympie Magistrates Court of docking six dogs' tails, which is illegal under the Animal Care and Protection Act.

The 54-year-old woman faced six charges after allegedly docking the tails of six Rottweiler puppies she had bred. She pled guilty in court to all charges.

Magistrate Maxine Baldwin fined the defendant $2000, and ordered her to pay $2936.58 in costs.

The Magistrate commented that the days of docking the tails of dogs have passed; and in these enlightened times, tail docking is no longer acceptable, or in accordance with community standards.

RSPCA Veterinarian Dr Rosemary Miller examined all puppies after they were seized back in April, 2010.

Dr Miller stated the wounds on the stumpy tails of the puppies were consistent with having their tails removed (docked).

RSPCA Inspector, Julia Steley said it's important that people realise that tail docking is illegal under section 24 of the Animal Care and Protection Act, and it is something that RSPCA and the courts take very seriously.

[Christina]

No sympathy. She knew & she is falsely promoting & advertising her dogs too.

I recently saw a toy poodle advertised as a natural bob tail. If true I assume there is some problem/abnormality with the development of the spine/tail as it is normal with almost all dogs to be born with a long tail as far as I know.

[WreckitWhippet]

I have no problems with her docking her pups and fully support any experienced breeder who chooses to do so. What I do object too, is the false advertising and think she should have been slapped with a ten grand fine for misreprsentation.

[Parkeyre]

And this is the reason why I recorded the birth of mu puppies, DNA profile all puppies and have my vet certify their tail status at only a few hours old. Having a breed with a Natural Bob Tail gene gets a lot of interest, good and bad.

Edited November 2, 2011 by Parkeyre

[sandgrubber]

That's fraud. She got off easy! I'd say jail time is appropriate for people who do things like lie about genetics, falsify pedigrees, or fake DNA test results.

Shame on the Gympie Times for indicating the fine was for tail docking. Or should it be shame on the Magistrate for prosecuting the lesser offense and doing nothing about the fraud?

Edited November 1, 2011 by sandgrubber

[KOOKA]

No sympathy what so ever, especially when I am sure a high price was asked for the pups being natural bob tails. EVERYONE needs to get over the tail thing, if you love the breed, they are born with tails so accept it, if you don't want a tail then move on to another breed because you want a Rottweiler for all the wrong reasons.

JMO

Kooka

[hastey]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-11-02/woman-fined-for-rottweiler-tail-docking/3614670?section=qld

Got off lightly I say

[Guest]

Kooka, you are not correct, there are natural bobtail rotts born. They are being dna certified as well as vet checked so there can be no suspicion attached to them. The breeders are doing this to protect themselves from this sort of situation.

Edited November 2, 2011 by Guest

[nowstarin]

Kooka, you are not correct, there are natural bobtail rotts born. They are being dna certified as well as vet checked so there can be no suspicion attached to them. The breeders are doing this to protect themselves from this sort of situation.

Sorry But under Australian rules and Breed standards we do not accept NOR recognise Natural Bob Tails in Australia. It is a con. This is spina Bifida and is unacceptable in Rottweilers.

I hope that Janice Niaess a self proclaimed "breeder" (of ill repute) will now be forced to cease having anything to do with Rottweilers in Australia. I hope the clubs and National Rottweiler Council serve her with fines and suspensions that will halt the lies and preying on unsuspecting and innocent future rottweiler owners.

Having been fined and served the fines by the RSPCA should ensure she is given a life time suspension from Dogs QLD too. Please someone in Qld request this.

Finally some justice.

[Guest]

Kooka, you are not correct, there are natural bobtail rotts born. They are being dna certified as well as vet checked so there can be no suspicion attached to them. The breeders are doing this to protect themselves from this sort of situation.

Sorry But under Australian rules and Breed standards we do not accept NOR recognise Natural Bob Tails in Australia. It is a con. This is spina Bifida and is unacceptable in Rottweilers.

I hope that Janice Niaess a self proclaimed "breeder" (of ill repute) will now be forced to cease having anything to do with Rottweilers in Australia. I hope the clubs and National Rottweiler Council serve her with fines and suspensions that will halt the lies and preying on unsuspecting and innocent future rottweiler owners.

Having been fined and served the fines by the RSPCA should ensure she is given a life time suspension from Dogs QLD too. Please someone in Qld request this.

Finally some justice.

Natural Bobtails are recognized in Australia by the ANKC. Pedigrees are so noted. The standard for the tail states: "Natural condition". As long as the tail has not been docked any length is correct within the standard. The natural bobtail has been part of the breed since inception and reference is made to it right from the first standard (1901)which stated the stumpy tail was to be preferred. NBT is NOTHING to do with spina bifida. Spina bifida is a deformity of the spine. Please do not try to muddy the water by forming an association of spina bifida with nbt. Read my lips - spina bifida is nothing to do with nbt.

Edited November 2, 2011 by Guest

[Crisovar]

Bobtails have been around in Rotts in Australia for many years, certainly long before the docking ban I remember litters with them in the '80s

Many breeders treated the bobtails as devils pawn but the fact is they were and still are in existence.

[klink]

I whole heartedly agree with this person being fined etc. Not for the docking but for the misrepresenting of her puppies which I consider much more serious.

Bobtails have been around forever in many breeds and i find the absolute garbage being dished out by the Rottweiler Clubs in this country a disgrace. If tail shortening was allowed tomorrow they would jump at the chance.

The truth behind their stand is dear old Germany! they were told early days that their judges would not judge dogs without tails, so stop the false statements to denigrate people who wish for freedom of choice to dock or not. It is common knowledge amongst the dog world that your clubs contributed to the ban on tail docking. and we wont' forget.

[Stolzseinrotts]

I whole heartedly agree with this person being fined etc. Not for the docking but for the misrepresenting of her puppies which I consider much more serious.

Bobtails have been around forever in many breeds and i find the absolute garbage being dished out by the Rottweiler Clubs in this country a disgrace. If tail shortening was allowed tomorrow they would jump at the chance.

The truth behind their stand is dear old Germany! they were told early days that their judges would not judge dogs without tails, so stop the false statements to denigrate people who wish for freedom of choice to dock or not. It is common knowledge amongst the dog world that your clubs contributed to the ban on tail docking. and we wont' forget.

Off Topic.............

Could you please verify your statements that I have bolded, as I am really struggling to understand why you have said what you have and what you mean by it all?

Please do enlighten me and qualify your statements??????

Oh....... to be very clear I am all for freedom of choice!

Edited to add;

Fraud should never be an acceptable practice period.

Edited November 2, 2011 by Stolzseinrotts

[Souff]

Sorry But under Australian rules and Breed standards we do not accept NOR recognise Natural Bob Tails in Australia. It is a con. This is spina Bifida and is unacceptable in Rottweilers.

I am not quite sure who the "we" is, but you need to get your facts straight about the bobtail gene ... and then perhaps you can pass on what you learn to "we".

The bobtail gene is NOT spina bifida.

Natural bobtails occur in quite a few breeds of dog and the gene is not linked to spina bifida.

The dogs which have the bobtail gene have a proper anus and many have a short tail. Some have no tail at all but are not afflicted with adverse health effects.

Spina bifida is random and strikes the pups of LONG TAILED or short tailed parents. Breeders who have had the heartbreak of having a pup affected by spina bifida usually go on to give FOLIC ACID to bitches after that, in order to prevent the onset of spina bifida during pregnancy. Spina bifida occurs as a developmental problem early in pregnancy and the presence of folic acid in the bitch's diet can help to keep the condition at bay, just as happens in human mothers.

Human mothers don't carry the bobtail gene ... yet folic acid is widely prescribed to ward off spina bifida.

"Since Spina Bifida occurs early in pregnancy, often before a woman knows she is pregnant, it is important to take folic acid every day. Taking folic acid before and during early pregnancy reduces the risk of Spina Bifida and other neural tube defects." http://www.spinabifidaassociation.org

Please do some proper research and find out the facts ... and don't forget to tell "we".

Souff

[Steve]

Kooka, you are not correct, there are natural bobtail rotts born. They are being dna certified as well as vet checked so there can be no suspicion attached to them. The breeders are doing this to protect themselves from this sort of situation.

Sorry But under Australian rules and Breed standards we do not accept NOR recognise Natural Bob Tails in Australia. It is a con. This is spina Bifida and is unacceptable in Rottweilers.

I hope that Janice Niaess a self proclaimed "breeder" (of ill repute) will now be forced to cease having anything to do with Rottweilers in Australia. I hope the clubs and National Rottweiler Council serve her with fines and suspensions that will halt the lies and preying on unsuspecting and innocent future rottweiler owners.

Having been fined and served the fines by the RSPCA should ensure she is given a life time suspension from Dogs QLD too. Please someone in Qld request this.

Finally some justice.

Wrong

[klink]

I whole heartedly agree with this person being fined etc. Not for the docking but for the misrepresenting of her puppies which I consider much more serious.

Bobtails have been around forever in many breeds and i find the absolute garbage being dished out by the Rottweiler Clubs in this country a disgrace. If tail shortening was allowed tomorrow they would jump at the chance.

The truth behind their stand is dear old Germany! they were told early days that their judges would not judge dogs without tails, so stop the false statements to denigrate people who wish for freedom of choice to dock or not. It is common knowledge amongst the dog world that your clubs contributed to the ban on tail docking. and we wont' forget.

Off Topic.............

Could you please verify your statements that I have bolded, as I am really struggling to understand why you have said what you have and what you mean by it all?

Please do enlighten me and qualify your statements??????

Oh....... to be very clear I am all for freedom of choice!

Edited to add;

Fraud should never be an acceptable practice period.

The comments made by Nowstarin clearly show the mis information that is present re taildocking,and i dont' really see any point in going through the numerous other stories and mis truths bandied about over the years by the various sides in this debate.

I would like to say that for many years I was involved in Rottweiler clubs ,and I have been involved in many discussions during the pre docking days through to the current ban and the concern by the clubs re overseas judging , particularly Germany not being allowed to judge docked dogs was a real ( if not foolish ) concern for the clubs.

The Rottweiler clubs simply rolled over and not only let themselves down but their breed,the rest of the docked breeds, many of whom are still fighting the ban. The bad sportsmanship against people with a legally docked Rottweiler is at times shameful.IMO the ban has done the breed no favours. I personally know of a docked dog being told that he cant' be placed by an overseas judge because of the tail missing.

[Alyosha]

That's fraud. She got off easy! I'd say jail time is appropriate for people who do things like lie about genetics, falsify pedigrees, or fake DNA test results.

Shame on the Gympie Times for indicating the fine was for tail docking. Or should it be shame on the Magistrate for prosecuting the lesser offense and doing nothing about the fraud?

No shame on anyne. She was prosecuted by the RSPCA who have no authority to investigate or prosecute fraud matters. If any fraud was referred to the police it will be dealt with seperately.

[smacka]

I recently signed a petition, a private persons petition not connected with any dog club or organisation, to allow banding in lieu of docking.

Being pro taildocking I signed it without hesitation.

[rotts4ever]

I whole heartedly agree with this person being fined etc. Not for the docking but for the misrepresenting of her puppies which I consider much more serious.

Bobtails have been around forever in many breeds and i find the absolute garbage being dished out by the Rottweiler Clubs in this country a disgrace. If tail shortening was allowed tomorrow they would jump at the chance.

The truth behind their stand is dear old Germany! they were told early days that their judges would not judge dogs without tails, so stop the false statements to denigrate people who wish for freedom of choice to dock or not. It is common knowledge amongst the dog world that your clubs contributed to the ban on tail docking. and we wont' forget.

In australia I believe back in 1998 it was decided and accepted from the ANKC that the standard followed for the Rottweiler in australia is the FCI/ Country of origin standard which states TAIL : In natural condition, level in extension of the upper line; at ease may be hanging. The ANKC's own rule states once a country of origin standard is accepted that it is accepted in full without alteration and any changes made to that standard by the country of origin are accepted, The only variance with this is that if it is felt that a statement in a Breed

Standard is ambiguous or unusual then the ANKC NBSCG can add an explanation, which will be placed in [square brackets] after the ambiguous or unusual statement.

So yes a specialist judge does judge to the standard meaning tail in natural condition and I choose to follow our agreed standard and leave the tails natural. It's suggested that if we could shorten tails tomorrow we would, wrong, I would not and I'm guessing most serious Rottweiler breeders more concerned with the whole dog would choose to leave tails natural also, but I could be wrong.

I also have no problem with freedom of choice but the fact is natural tails are correct by our followed standard and it is mine and many others freedom of choice to follow that standard.

Truth be known leaving my dogs tails on has helped in regards to the many idiots that should not own a Rott not liking the tails so it saves me from saying I'm not selling you a pup, it has also helped me with PR as a lot of the general public think they look friendlier when you can see a tail, right or wrong, that is the view.

An overseas judge that is judging by standard has every right to mark a dog down that they feel isn't following the set standard just as they would with any other deviation from any breeds agreed standard.

I don't care what the other breeds caretakers choose to do or what their standards requires.

I also find it amusing reading the comments that The bad sportsmanship against people with a legally docked Rottweiler is at times shameful. I own one of the 1st Rottweilers in NSW to be left with a natural tail and the bull shit I had to listen too, the judges that would look over our head like we were'nt even in the ring and the comments about my x Lab were constant. Once I even had a lady push the puppy away when he was after a pat saying get that tailed thing away from me and no that was not another rottweiler person. That was seven years ago, I continued to show but it was very hard at first. That dog is multi V1 rated, BISS, Multi best in group, Multi RUIS Grand Champion and has his ET Title but more importantly has a wonderful temperament and is a great PR dog.

To this day I have still had to listen to, by certain judges, They don't look right with a tail. I had to listen to the crap that rotts with tails have worse hips, bull, I have 3 in my yard at the moment that have been scored 1:3, 1:1 and 1:1 the best scores I've ever had all with natural tails.

So I guess any shameful behaviour can go both ways.

While the standard says natural the NBT fits in my mind to the standard, the problem is some breed just for the NBT without looking at the rest of the dog, disregarding hip scores, missing teeth and docking undesirable length of tails under the guiese of the bob tail etc which in my mind is doing the breed no favours.

I have no control over stopping people from shortening tails, and nor do I want to, they can fight the law all they want. Good on those that fight for what they believe in but remember others have a right to their own beliefs also or rolling over if that the prefered statement

Cheers Lee

Edited November 8, 2011 by rotts4ever

[Souff]

While the standard says natural the NBT fits in my mind to the standard, the problem is some breed just for the NBT without looking at the rest of the dog, disregarding hip scores, missing teeth and docking undesirable length of tails under the guiese of the bob tail etc which in my mind is doing the breed no favours.

My reading too. If a dog is born with a tail of any length, it is a "natural tail".

Tails are such a small part of a dog and I am with you re breeders looking at the rest of the dog and getting that right first.

What irks me most is that the freedom of choice, a choice that should be made in the best interests of the dog, was ripped away from the people who know the dogs best by people who had a political agenda that was wrong on so many counts.

Souff