Unfair:

[Nic.B]

I am not sure if you are reffering to my post Jules though Sandgrubber has said horse related deaths and injury can be improved if you wear a helmet and if we observe basic safety practice.

I agree this helps, though you can be the best rider in the world, observe basic saftey practices, wear a helmet etc though things can still unfold when riding which are out of your control and it is a risk we face as riders.

I dont blame dogs for what I see most often either. They have been let down by their owners mostly.

Very few dogs have given me the willies. Probably a handful out of hundreds and hundreds of many breeds and types. The ones that have given me the creeps had major issues (probably through no fault of their own) though were not safe to rehome.

I dont think comparing horses and dogs works at all for a number of reasons. Just my opinion though.

[Atanquin]

Horse riding is one of the most dangerous sports but thdn again there is a chance of you getting seriously injured or killed everytime you get in your car. My mum has asked me to stop doing cross country and show jumping as she is scared next time I will be going to hospital in a bag and that I should stick to the natural horsemanship. But I would be lost if I was not doing what I loved and luckily my bf has not seen me have a bad fall so he is not telling me to stop

[aussielover]

What about cows and pigs :D

They can be quite vicious if you are trying to do something they don't like (or if you fall over in their sty!)

[OSoSwift]

Yes I can vouch for cows in a temper!!

MIne are generally very even tempered. One got mastitis and we had to get her into the yard for treatment. We walked her in nice and slowly. We got her into the first yard with the vehicle, then got out to walk her through to the other yards and race on foot as per normal. Everything as per normal.

She decided she was sick and sore and we could get lost!! She charged my FIL (who was 72 at the time) he managed to step to the side but she she was going aroudn him ina circle trying to knock him down. He lost his footing and fell down, she spun around got down on her knees and was about to try and squash him inot the ground.

I grabbed the poly pipe flew through the fence and laid into her as fast and hard as I could, there was no way she was going to injure my FIL if I could help it. She was shutting her eyes because of the fact I was hitting as hard and fast as I could( I did accidentally hit my FIL once!!) It gave him enough time to get to his feet and get out of the yard. Only problem was I was driving her slowly back so by the time he got out I was in the middle of a large yard with a really pissed off cow.

I managed to get her to turn slightly then bolted and rolled under the fence before she got to me. We decided to get the ute in the yard to move her to a smaller yard that we could move her from the opposite side of the fence. We got the ute through the gate then she decided she wanted to leave. Result? I just got the gate shut in time and she dented the back of the ute and moved it around 2 feet sideways.

We managed to get her into the crush and get antibiotics etc but everytime I showed up she charged the fence. She seemed to be doing well, but was going to go to market due her temperment, when it was discovered her udder was starting to slough and she was euthed standing in the paddock.

I have had a few other close calls as well

[Rozzie]

You don't want to cross a pissed off donkey either.

[Saffioraire]

What about cows and pigs :D

They can be quite vicious if you are trying to do something they don't like (or if you fall over in their sty!)

Holy crap - I wasn't going to post, but AMEN!!!

I am terrified of pigs - have you ever been bitten by a pig? Put me in a cage with a foul dog any day, just dont set your boar on me!

Edited to add - horses don't always go scott free. I've seen people (even the experienced) do some STUPID things with horses and blame the animal. We've had to put down a horse because it was mad, I'm quite convinced it had a brain tumor and he WOULD in no uncertain terms kill you, and himself at the same time, if you got him in the right situation. I was always taught, it's never the horses fault, it's yours, because even a bad horse has been made bad, but a truly dirty sod who is dirty of his own accord is never to be trusted.

Edited November 4, 2011 by Saffioraire

[JulesP]

What about cows and pigs :D

They can be quite vicious if you are trying to do something they don't like (or if you fall over in their sty!)

Holy crap - I wasn't going to post, but AMEN!!!

I am terrified of pigs - have you ever been bitten by a pig? Put me in a cage with a foul dog any day, just dont set your boar on me!

I may be scared of birds.....

[sandgrubber]

The point of the OP is that dogs are common, widespread, and often poorly managed. I think it says a lot for Canis domesticus that there aren't more injuries and deaths. Yes, there are accidents, and a very very few dogs should probably be removed from the gene pool and/or deprived of the right to breathe. I just wish people would put those dog accidents in perspective of other trans-species relationships. I wish society could extend the same degree of forgiveness to an old dog who bites in surprise or pain that they do to a frisky colt who throws its rider and breaks someone's arm . . . or neck.

If fencing and training and zoning restrictions were as widespread for dogs as they are for horses, we'd have a lot fewer dog problems. Imagine what a mess it would be if people were as free-wheeling about keeping horses as they are about keeping dogs . . . and every other household owned a horse.

[Andisa]

This thread has just reminded me of the time we bought over 300 merino sheep that the stock and station agent said "they only need love" - Imagine over 300 of the bastards that had limited handling with long thick horns - some around 10" long coming at you in the stock yards :eek: Torn clothes, cuts and bruises and lots of swearing but we some how managed them and they did settle down after a yr or so. But we never forgave the agent for those ones....and never got them from that property again either.

[Andisa]

The point of the OP is that dogs are common, widespread, and often poorly managed. I think it says a lot for Canis domesticus that there aren't more injuries and deaths. Yes, there are accidents, and a very very few dogs should probably be removed from the gene pool and/or deprived of the right to breathe. I just wish people would put those dog accidents in perspective of other trans-species relationships. I wish society could extend the same degree of forgiveness to an old dog who bites in surprise or pain that they do to a frisky colt who throws its rider and breaks someone's arm . . . or neck.

If fencing and training and zoning restrictions were as widespread for dogs as they are for horses, we'd have a lot fewer dog problems. Imagine what a mess it would be if people were as free-wheeling about keeping horses as they are about keeping dogs . . . and every other household owned a horse.

I agree with you here.

Edited November 4, 2011 by Andisa

[WoofnHoof]

Unfortunately a lot of horses do get dogged for a lot less than injuring a human, some get it for being too slow, too fast, too ugly, too old, too young (ie ill bred young horses that aren't worth the cost of educating them), and yes I agree with everyone here horses and dogs are similar only in that they are domesticated and many humans live closely with them, in nearly every other way they cannot be compared at all.

I have a horse that is more likely to kick than the others, I tell anyone who is near her that she has been known to kick, some people listen, some people don't.

I wonder how many of the horses died too? A friend worked at a one day event and 3 ponies/horses died. No people died.

OMG that's terrible! I evented for about 10 years attended heaps of events and clinics, in that time there were three horse deaths (two broken legs from landing awkwardly in water the third crashed into the fence and broke a shoulder) and one human death (horse fell on him).

[aussielover]

The point of the OP is that dogs are common, widespread, and often poorly managed. I think it says a lot for Canis domesticus that there aren't more injuries and deaths. Yes, there are accidents, and a very very few dogs should probably be removed from the gene pool and/or deprived of the right to breathe. I just wish people would put those dog accidents in perspective of other trans-species relationships. I wish society could extend the same degree of forgiveness to an old dog who bites in surprise or pain that they do to a frisky colt who throws its rider and breaks someone's arm . . . or neck.

If fencing and training and zoning restrictions were as widespread for dogs as they are for horses, we'd have a lot fewer dog problems. Imagine what a mess it would be if people were as free-wheeling about keeping horses as they are about keeping dogs . . . and every other household owned a horse.

Actually I think if horses were kept like some dogs, they wouldn't be as much of a problem. I don't think as many horses would go around looking for people/other animals to attack as they aren't a predator.

Most of the injuries with horses comes with close handling or riding them. Simply walking through their paddock at a distance doesn't usually result in an attack, where as dogs will fence rush and be more like (imo) to attack you if you come onto their property

A lot of people who aren't familiar with horses are intimidated by them and therefore wouldn't approach a horse randomly.

Where dog bites can occur when people say "but I just wanted to pat him"

[JulesP]

The point of the OP is that dogs are common, widespread, and often poorly managed. I think it says a lot for Canis domesticus that there aren't more injuries and deaths. Yes, there are accidents, and a very very few dogs should probably be removed from the gene pool and/or deprived of the right to breathe. I just wish people would put those dog accidents in perspective of other trans-species relationships. I wish society could extend the same degree of forgiveness to an old dog who bites in surprise or pain that they do to a frisky colt who throws its rider and breaks someone's arm . . . or neck.

If fencing and training and zoning restrictions were as widespread for dogs as they are for horses, we'd have a lot fewer dog problems. Imagine what a mess it would be if people were as free-wheeling about keeping horses as they are about keeping dogs . . . and every other household owned a horse.

I just don't agree with this and I don't think that you have a good concept of horse ownership. Horse ownership is heaps less restricted than dog ownership. Horses aren't registered with council (in most places), I'm sure there is plenty of dodgy fencing around and you don't have to train your horse.

The only difference I can see is most horse people are horse-crazy like we are dog-crazy, so a heap of care is taken. I see less of 'lets get a pony and shove it in a field'. People that do that seem to realise the error of their ways fairly quickly too.

It isn't the fencing, training & zoning that is important it is the owner.

I think the horses would suffer more than the humans too if every household owned one.

[wings]

The point of the OP is that dogs are common, widespread, and often poorly managed. I think it says a lot for Canis domesticus that there aren't more injuries and deaths. Yes, there are accidents, and a very very few dogs should probably be removed from the gene pool and/or deprived of the right to breathe. I just wish people would put those dog accidents in perspective of other trans-species relationships. I wish society could extend the same degree of forgiveness to an old dog who bites in surprise or pain that they do to a frisky colt who throws its rider and breaks someone's arm . . . or neck.

If fencing and training and zoning restrictions were as widespread for dogs as they are for horses, we'd have a lot fewer dog problems. Imagine what a mess it would be if people were as free-wheeling about keeping horses as they are about keeping dogs . . . and every other household owned a horse.

I just don't agree with this and I don't think that you have a good concept of horse ownership. Horse ownership is heaps less restricted than dog ownership. Horses aren't registered with council (in most places), I'm sure there is plenty of dodgy fencing around and you don't have to train your horse.

The only difference I can see is most horse people are horse-crazy like we are dog-crazy, so a heap of care is taken. I see less of 'lets get a pony and shove it in a field'. People that do that seem to realise the error of their ways fairly quickly too.

It isn't the fencing, training & zoning that is important it is the owner.

I think the horses would suffer more than the humans too if every household owned one.

Well said Jules and aussielover.

I'm guessing a lot of the "that's a silly comparison" comments come from horse owners/lovers. Perhaps it's one of those things where you don't necessarily see it unless you're involved in it?

A dog is a predatorial animal, a horse is a prey animal. They are geared quite differently so I just can't seem to make this comparison work correctly.

Additionally most horse related deaths occur from a complete accident, the animal had no intention of causing harm. Unfortunatly a lot of accidents with dogs show that the animal did indeed intend to cause harm.

[sandgrubber]

I'm guessing a lot of the "that's a silly comparison" comments come from horse owners/lovers. Perhaps it's one of those things where you don't necessarily see it unless you're involved in it?

A dog is a predatorial animal, a horse is a prey animal. They are geared quite differently so I just can't seem to make this comparison work correctly.

Additionally most horse related deaths occur from a complete accident, the animal had no intention of causing harm. Unfortunatly a lot of accidents with dogs show that the animal did indeed intend to cause harm.

I suspect that horse people are trying to defend their relationship with a reasonably dangerous animal . . .not dangerous cause it eats meat, but dangerous because horses weigh hundreds of kilograms, and horse accidents do a lot of damage.

Given that dogs descend from predators and horses are herbivores, and that the hours people spend in dog company run to hundreds of millions per year (in Australia alone), I'd say it speaks wonderfully for dogs that there are so few dog incidents.

Intent is difficult to prove even with human on human actions. Dogs rarely 'intend' to harm. Sometimes they react, and the reaction involves teeth. Poor dogs, can't respond with a verbal scolding or a slap to the face. Young horses commonly react to an unexpected weight on their back or someone intruding in their peripheral vision by bucking or kicking. Not sure it's instinct, but it sure isn't with full human-style evaluation of the situation. Also note the huge amount of abuse kids heap on dogs . . . ranging from taunting and teasing, to dressing them up in clothes, to tying tin cans on their tails and lighting them on fire. Yes, there are slip ups, but by-in-large, dogs are impressively tolerant of humans.

Even though dogs far outnumber horses and live in much closer proximity to families than horses do, the fact remains that horses far outrank dogs in terms of physical damage done. Frankly, I'd rather have a few stitches than end out with a broken arm or be paralyzed for life. All the OP is asking is that people be a little more tolerant of the fact that dogs occasionally slip up in showing anger, fear, or some other negative reaction, and give more credit to dogs for the incredible amount of mistreatment they put up with at human hands.

Do you contest that the human dog bond is remarkably strong? Are you saying that dogs should be blamed and pts when they react too strongly and someone ends up bleeding. Dogs acting as predators and treating humans as prey are a different case. I think there's broad consensus that such dogs are extremely rare, but must not be tolerated as companion animals.

Or are you defending the human-horse relationship? If so, I don't see why. I don't see that the human-horse bond is under attack, anywhere.

[Nic.B]

What about cows and pigs :D

They can be quite vicious if you are trying to do something they don't like (or if you fall over in their sty!)

Lol, I have never spent any time with pigs. We had a pigglet come into the pound not that long ago He was really sweet and went home the same day. He was only little though.

Cows I can relate to, we have raised poddy calves here (from the sale yards and meat works) Even when they are little they rub and push up against you like they would their mum. Problem is mum is a lot bigger than us!

When I visit them now they come running up to the fence with their tongues out and tails wagging. I am sure they think they are dogs I love cows! gosh they are enormous, strong, magnificent creatures!

I remember when I was pregnant with my son I was chased by a steer, that was scary

[Nic.B]

Sandgrubber,

I dont think anyone is 'defending' horses, well maybe a little, though mostly trying to educate.

I just dont think it is a fair comparison to use to make a point. They are two very different animals in just about every regard.

We all love dogs, which is why we are on a dog forum

[laeral]

I don't think anyone is comparing horses and dogs as similar, just pointing out the unfairness of people's attitudes in regards to the two species.

For example -

Two weeks ago I was working with my two year old Arabian. I was teaching him to yield his front end. He had a freak out moment, reared up and come down so quickly I didn't have time to get out of the way. As I was standing so close to him his hoof struck the top of my head. I had to go to hospital and have stitches.

At no point did anyone blame the horse, or suggest I get rid of him or put him down. Everyone just accepted he was an animal and unexpected things can happen ( or I was just an idiot asking to much of him!)

However if I was a 5 year old child who walked up behind an old dog, stood on his tail, the dog lashed out in fear/pain/surprise and bit me in the face requiring me to go to hospital and have stitches. THis would probably end up from page news as a 'mauling' and the dog would be put down.

Why can't we have the same consideration we have for one species of animal and not the other. They are both animals, will react like animals and accidents will happen when we interact with them.