What Do You Think?

[Simply Grand]

I'm interested in some opinions from those with more knowledge than me!

This morning we had Riley's second beginner obedience class (he's going well and I think we have a great little class of pups! ). One pup in the class is a border collie girl, around six months. She's a gorgeous dog but in both classes she's been very full on towards the dogs that are near her - straining on the leash towards them, barking loudly and consistently at them (my impression is barking with aggression, there's no play bowing, waving arms around, making different noises or things that puppies wanting to play do) and not paying attention to her owners.

I know she's only young and seems high drive but the thing that I was questioning today is that she was was barking and straining with all her might at the lab pup sitting next to her for half the class until the lab's owners moved. The instructor's advice was that the BC's owners should ignore her behaviour. Her reasoning was that paying attention to her barking was rewarding her.

My thoughts were that as she was barking at the other dog not at her owners, and was displaying aggression, or at least in appropriate behaviour, she was getting results from her behavior when the other dog reacted to her, and being ignored by the humans was just letting her keep doing what she wanted to do. And I'm thinking if the behaviour isn't nipped in the bud at this age it'll get more ingrained and she'll rapidly be become older, bigger, stronger and still be barking, straining towards other dogs and not paying attention to the owners.

I would have thought the advice should be get her physically under control (not straining on the leash) away from the other dogs if necessary, tell her firmly to stop the barking and focus on the owner, reward that and give her lots of quiet praise and positive attention when she's sitting quietly (which she does sometimes).

I know it's hard to advise without seeing it, and obviously I'm not planning to interrupt the class and say anything but I'm interested in people's thoughts to further my own knowledge, and maybe mention to them privately if it seems appropriate.

Thanks

Edited October 30, 2011 by Saxonpup

[huski]

Hmmm. I often find instructors will say things like 'just ignore it' when they have no idea what the owners should actually do to address the behaviour.

If I had a dog like that in one of my classes I would be pulling the owners aside after class and spending some time with them one on one to show them ways to address the behaviour.

If I had an instance where I didn't know how the behaviour should be addressed I'd tell the owners I'd do some research and find out for them or I'd refer them to someone who was more experienced than I was.

[Weasels]

I agree with you saxonpup, it sounds like the dog is self-rewarding and couldn't care less what the owner's reaction is.

This sounds like Weez when he started at agility, i did what you said - move away, focus work, sometimes go for abit of a run. In his case he was just barking at nothing, probablu bored and being a kelpie just wanted to work and didn't know where to direct his energy (a bc might be the same). He's pretty good now, barks a bit sometimes whle i'm working my other dog but much better

[Simply Grand]

Oops I just realized how long my post was, sorry! Thanks for the responses guys

The instructor is lovely but I don't know how experienced she is so maybe it was that she wasn't sure what to do. I hope she or the owners get some advice about it otherwise I dont know how enjoyable training will be for the pup and owners. The poor owners were quite embarrassed about the barking etc and they couldn't do the controlled greeting at all as the pup was getting to worked up.

[Pretty Miss Emma]

I would have asked the BC owners to move their pup further out from the group and to get it doing exercises that would get it focussing on them not on the other dogs - so even if it is just lots of simple behaviours in quick succession and "look at me's", etc. It sounds like they could also do with playing Look At That. Like others have said, it's self rewarding so it got what it wanted. Sounds a bit like it may need to do some more connecting with it's owners so that it understands that all good things come from them rather than when it wants - but that is the instructors job to help them with that. I'd just be keeping my distance from it so that you can do your work uninterrupted!!

[corvus]

It might not have been aggression so much as frustration and over-arousal. Not that it really matters. I agree that it would have been better to be actively working on teaching the pup what she should be doing rather than ignoring it and letting her self-reward. Whether it's likely to become ingrained or escalate is hard to say without knowing why the pup is acting that way. Suffice to say that practising highly aroused behaviour around particular stimulus is pretty much a recipe for ongoing troubles around with that stimulus. It just depends on whether the pup is doing it to just one dog for some reason, or doing it to other dogs as well. If she's doing it to one, she may well start to do it to others, which would be a red flag.

I think all pups ought to be doing exercises where they connect with their owners. Perhaps it's especially important for one that is a bit of a handful, but ultimately training is going to largely depend on that foundation work you have done. There is little point doing things like LAT if you don't have things like a whiplash turn, default behaviours, and a good history with a marker already sorted.

[sheena]

My girl used to do this in class when we first started agility & almost got banned, till I started taking along a squirt bottle & letting her have a well timed squirt when naughty & treats when she was good. It didn't take her long to catch on to which one she preferred & just knowing I had the squirt bottle was a good enough deterent. Of course, I didn't know anything about LAT in those days but practice it now with her & she is going well But for a quick fix...the old water bottle plus treats. Sounds to me that the puppy needs to go back to basic foundation training for puppies.

[Casima]

If she were my dog, I would be moving myself and the dog away from the class, as far as I needed to go that she could behave well (maybe a few meters, maybe 100 meters, depending on what the dog needed) practise lots of good work there with plenty of rewards, and slowly (maybe over a number of classes or more, as long as it takes) move closer until we are back in to join the class. If at any point the dog is distracted again simply move away a bit until you get good work. I've used it with 2 of my own dogs and wish I had of for the 1st as it was very effective, doesn't disrupt the class and doesn't spoil your relationship with your dog or her joy of working with you.