A Story Of A 'should Of'

[Roguedog]

I have no sympathy for them at all. It's not a case of " should have " it's a case of you MUST train and restrain your dog full stop.

I really feel for the poor innocent dogs and people that are out walking and minding their own business, that are set upon by dogs, owned by the irresponsible.

this.... sick of it in my neighbourhood, I now have a dog with on-lead aggression due to it.... no sympathy at all....

[Guest donatella]

the number of growing aggressive off leash dog attacks like this is the reason i don't walk my dog and moreso opt for other reasons of exercise for her, i honestly hear stories every few weeks and it scares me to death

i do feel for this family dog though, its reason to socialise your dog from day dot, another life lost

[dancinbcs]

I'm assuming the dog "at fault" here is probably at risk of being identified as a "restricted" breed type in Victoria - would that be correct Nekhbet?

Better that the owners are able to say goodbye to it in a dignified manner, rather than it be seized by the council and destroyed by a stranger.

My heart goes out to the families and witnesses involved.

T.

Any breed that had two attacks reported could be declared a "dangerous dog". That was why I was wondering what the breed was. The father that gave them the dog should have to pay any fines but the mother should have been firm when the dog arrived and said it had to live at dad's place. Hsrd to be the baddy in the kids eyes at the time but it would have been so much better than this outcome. Even better would have been a dad that wasn't a moron.

I feel sorry for the kids but have no sympathy at all for the parents or the dog. If it had attacked my dogs I would want it put down. I believe there is no place in modern society for any dog that will launch an unprovoked attack on dogs walking past minding their own business. I'm not talking about the many dogs that object to another dog running up and getting in their face but the ones that see another dog and instantly launch into attack mode.

[wantsapuppy]

what a sad story . Can i as what kind of dog Not that i think the dog is to blame just out of curiosity . If he HAD of been trained and socialised and all that this would NEVER of occured.

[jacqui835]

what a sad story . Can i as what kind of dog Not that i think the dog is to blame just out of curiosity . If he HAD of been trained and socialised and all that this would NEVER of occured.

I disagree with this statement. If you don't think you're going to be a great dog owner/trainer, but still want a dog, there are certain options that are safer than others. For example, say in one case the family owns a staffy, and in the other, they own a papillon. I'm not saying you should necessarily ever own a dog if you don't think you can train it properly, but, I personally know people who don't want to train dogs and subsequently elect to own cavaliers and papillons. No damage done to date. Certain breeds typically have more prey drive, need to be trained out of natural DA etc whereas others tend to be more laid-back just naturally.

Yes it's sad that this dog wasn't trained properly, and training would have made a difference, but breed/size/power available etc also all make a difference too so I agree very much with the people who have been saying that this family should never have owned a powerful breed.

[wantsapuppy]

what a sad story . Can i as what kind of dog Not that i think the dog is to blame just out of curiosity . If he HAD of been trained and socialised and all that this would NEVER of occured.

I disagree with this statement. If you don't think you're going to be a great dog owner/trainer, but still want a dog, there are certain options that are safer than others. For example, say in one case the family owns a staffy, and in the other, they own a papillon. I'm not saying you should necessarily ever own a dog if you don't think you can train it properly, but, I personally know people who don't want to train dogs and subsequently elect to own cavaliers and papillons. No damage done to date. Certain breeds typically have more prey drive, need to be trained out of natural DA etc whereas others tend to be more laid-back just naturally.

Yes it's sad that this dog wasn't trained properly, and training would have made a difference, but breed/size/power available etc also all make a difference too so I agree very much with the people who have been saying that this family should never have owned a powerful breed.

But training could of reduced greatly the chance of this happening. OK so NEVER happening was proberly the wrong word

We dont know what the breed was so at this stage that has nothing to do with it.

Edited October 29, 2011 by wantsapuppy

[jacqui835]

what a sad story . Can i as what kind of dog Not that i think the dog is to blame just out of curiosity . If he HAD of been trained and socialised and all that this would NEVER of occured.

I disagree with this statement. If you don't think you're going to be a great dog owner/trainer, but still want a dog, there are certain options that are safer than others. For example, say in one case the family owns a staffy, and in the other, they own a papillon. I'm not saying you should necessarily ever own a dog if you don't think you can train it properly, but, I personally know people who don't want to train dogs and subsequently elect to own cavaliers and papillons. No damage done to date. Certain breeds typically have more prey drive, need to be trained out of natural DA etc whereas others tend to be more laid-back just naturally.

Yes it's sad that this dog wasn't trained properly, and training would have made a difference, but breed/size/power available etc also all make a difference too so I agree very much with the people who have been saying that this family should never have owned a powerful breed.

But training could of reduced greatly the chance of this happening. OK so NEVER happening was proberly the wrong word

We dont know what the breed was so at this stage that has nothing to do with it.

Very true. But if the provision of adequate training is doubtful, well staffy + no training = disaster, papillon + no training = maybe not a problem at all.

[Guest Panzer Attack!]

Slightly OT but I recently rescued a Pap with no training that definitely would have bitten a human given the right circumstances. He's in a great home now that follows my instructions to the letter and has been slowly introduced to kids but there is NO way I would have done it before he was ready. He would have easily ripped into a kid's face if he felt threatened, and is walked with a muzzle as he is dog aggressive (but getting much better with training and will hopefully be able to lose the muzzle in the next couple of months ). Lack of training let this dog down badly, and luckily he's in the position where he's with a family patient enough to rehabilitate him. I've also had the bad luck of grooming more than 1 aggressive Cav in my time as a groomer. If you can't train a dog, don't have one, end of story. Small dogs need training just as much as big dogs. (Not having a go at you here jacqui853!! It's just a bug bear of mine when people assume that if they buy a SWF or a Cav or whatever that they won't have to train it or socialise it and it will somehow magically turn into The Perfect Dog at 6 months old!)

E x

[Mags]

Feel really sorry for the poor dogs that were attacked and their owner. Also feel sorry for the dog that now has to be pts because his owners didn't bother to make any effort to keep him safe. Have no sympathy for his owners though if there are young children involved they too are victims in this.

Also think if you can't be bothered training a dog and keeping them safe don't have one. And totally disagree with the thinking if you can't be bothered training get a little dog - don't get a dog at all unless you are prepared to put the work in and dogs are work. I am sick to death of some tiny/small dog owners who think it cute/funny that their dogs are dog aggressive & have absolutely no manners or training - what the .... is with that??????

Edited October 29, 2011 by Mags

[Nekhbet]

the dog has also rushed at and bailed up a child and had to be pulled away. The problem is he now has 2 official strikes against him and 2 council reports of such aggression. He previously rushed at my friend and her dogs while loose on the street and she had to kick him away - she ended up nipped on the leg. Can he be rehabilitated? Yes. With skill he can be managed very well. But the owners have not upheld their end of the dog ownership bargain and now it's either live in an enclosed run and muzzled all the time, never walked or PTS.

It's now the law is involved to this extent this dogs options have gone down the toilet. They should have put in more effort the last 2 times he was given a chance by the ranger for them to pick up their act.

The dog is not a restricted breed at all. A common guarding breed. The reason I didnt mention the breed is really, it doesnt matter. I see this similar behaviour from all manner of breeds. My point is that if you know someone that has a dog and they're fence sitting with management, they should make at least an attempt at sourcing a solution. There are far reaching consequences to lazyness and simply procrastination. Most of all a dog that knows NO better then what its genetics and envrionment allow loses it's life.

[Bilbo Baggins]

Slightly OT but I recently rescued a Pap with no training that definitely would have bitten a human given the right circumstances. He's in a great home now that follows my instructions to the letter and has been slowly introduced to kids but there is NO way I would have done it before he was ready. He would have easily ripped into a kid's face if he felt threatened, and is walked with a muzzle as he is dog aggressive (but getting much better with training and will hopefully be able to lose the muzzle in the next couple of months ). Lack of training let this dog down badly, and luckily he's in the position where he's with a family patient enough to rehabilitate him. I've also had the bad luck of grooming more than 1 aggressive Cav in my time as a groomer. If you can't train a dog, don't have one, end of story. Small dogs need training just as much as big dogs. (Not having a go at you here jacqui853!! It's just a bug bear of mine when people assume that if they buy a SWF or a Cav or whatever that they won't have to train it or socialise it and it will somehow magically turn into The Perfect Dog at 6 months old!)

E x

Glad you put that up. Cavs definitely need training.

[dee lee]

What a sad story Nekhbet.

It reaffirms to me that I made the right decision with my poor troubled dog 2 years ago. It's tragic how a split second lapse in management can be so disastrous.

Generally speaking, to those who are making the assumption that DA dogs are all the result of negligent owners who refuse to train them. It's not that simple. Once a dog, for whatever reason, develops aggression, it's a hard problem to address, with the majority only being able to be managed, not "fixed". Most people I know who have had to deal with this DO take on extra training, spend a lot of money & take huge precautions to prevent any future attacks.

[Scarlett Dog]

what a sad story for all involved, especially the dogs. When they say dogs are a lifetime commitment, they do not lie. That involves putting in the effort to make sure they are well socialised and trained. If they are not, then make sure whatever issues they have are well managed.

[sandgrubber]

That level of aggression at 12 months is worrisome. I can see why the owners had him pts.

I've been reading dog ordinances in various places. Some US 'shires' (ie, counties or in a few places, boroughs) have mandatory desexing for dogs who cause trouble or are found wandering at large. Often there are escape clauses for first offenders, pedigree dogs, police dogs, etc. Repeat offenses usually result in the dog being desexed (if they got through an escape clause the first time around) or pts. I have mixed feelings about government intervention in dog ownership, cause often the politicians do it so badly. But it seems like this sort of ordinance would have helped in this incident. That is, the offending dog would probably have been desexed, and to the extent his attack was testosterone fueled (which may have been zero) the attack would have less likely. Even if testosterone wasn't a factor, the owners would have been given a strong message.

Yes, owners, and breeders who breed unstable dogs, are ultimately responsible. But lax enforcement, and an all or nothing (warnings, then pts) penalty system make it easier for owners to do the wrong thing. Desexing aggressive or uncontrolled dogs at least removes dubious bloodlines from the gene pool.

Edited October 29, 2011 by sandgrubber

[Nic.B]

I agree that level of aggression is a real worry with both dogs and kids

Not sure where they live, though if that happened in this council area (and the owners of the staffies attacked) made a complaint to council the dog would be seized and probably pts. I do not even think the owners would get a chance to comply with a dangerous dog order under those circumstances and with a past history.

Much nicer for the dog to be pts with his family around rather than a pound and the stress associated.

It must have been a great help and support for the family to have you to speak to Nekhbet, I know I would greatly appreciate support if I were in the same position.