becks Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 My breeds, particularly the giants are known for short attention spans when training, well it is more like 'i've done this right so why are you making me repeat it again and again?' Clicker training is a great way to get them keen on doing things and trying to work out what you want. My current training sessions with my youngest are made up of present heel work hand touch send away (down on mat) send away (to go around a cone and return to me) touch stick - doing various tricks twist twirl walk back sit down stays walk through hoop weave through legs (my legs!) hold (for dumbell retrieving) and various other things that I think of. By mixing in the fun stuff that she enjoys doing, I can keep her interest in the boring stuff and I can then get a longer session in working on a particular 'boring' bit that would otherwise have her turned off from repeating the exercise. A lot of the fun stuff can also be used to keep attention in the show ring or for getting them warmed up for other trials. http://www.shirleychong.com/keepers/fun.html that is the link mentioned earlier and it looks good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 She's a Gundog that needs a job Wrong! A proper gun dog is capable of lots of disciplined inaction, and is a dog you can live with between hunts. A lunatic is intolerable in a shooting environment. You must have an off switch. This sort of temperament is as bad as high hip scores and worse than carrying PRA. I would say you've got a poorly bred bitch . . . conformation has been put over temperament. Talk with the breeder . . . they need feedback. They may not be willing to do anything to help. But they should know. And you should not breed this bitch, no matter how quickly she gets her Ch. I'm tired of people talking about crazy, destructive Labradors. For someone who does time-trial based field competition, there may be some justification for having a high drive dog who doesn't know how to chill out. But such people should not sell their pups to the general public, or other unsuspecting people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 (edited) She's a Gundog that needs a job Wrong! A proper gun dog is capable of lots of disciplined inaction, and is a dog you can live with between hunts. A lunatic is intolerable in a shooting environment. You must have an off switch. This sort of temperament is as bad as high hip scores and worse than carrying PRA. I would say you've got a poorly bred bitch . . . conformation has been put over temperament. Talk with the breeder . . . they need feedback. They may not be willing to do anything to help. But they should know. And you should not breed this bitch, no matter how quickly she gets her Ch. I'm tired of people talking about crazy, destructive Labradors. For someone who does time-trial based field competition, there may be some justification for having a high drive dog who doesn't know how to chill out. But such people should not sell their pups to the general public, or other unsuspecting people. I don't see lunatic there, sure she's detructive but she's a young, bored Gundog, who clearly is not getting the mental stimulation that she needs. I'd say it's more likely an owner who is inexpereinced with the breed and was not prepared for the work that would be required. Edited October 25, 2011 by Pav Lova Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Before we jump on the owner, she is clearly trying to get help. If we slam owners for not being perfect right from the start people will just stop asking for help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Oh..and atua .. we MUST have photos of this girl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisovar Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 She's a Gundog that needs a job Wrong! A proper gun dog is capable of lots of disciplined inaction, and is a dog you can live with between hunts. A lunatic is intolerable in a shooting environment. You must have an off switch. This sort of temperament is as bad as high hip scores and worse than carrying PRA. I would say you've got a poorly bred bitch . . . conformation has been put over temperament. Talk with the breeder . . . they need feedback. They may not be willing to do anything to help. But they should know. And you should not breed this bitch, no matter how quickly she gets her Ch. I'm tired of people talking about crazy, destructive Labradors. For someone who does time-trial based field competition, there may be some justification for having a high drive dog who doesn't know how to chill out. But such people should not sell their pups to the general public, or other unsuspecting people. WOW big call from one post from an owner, nice attack on a Breeder you know nothing about! The dog is also not a Lab by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Before we jump on the owner, she is clearly trying to get help. If we slam owners for not being perfect right from the start people will just stop asking for help. And people shouldn't be so quick to slam the registered breeder who bred the dog. For all we know, this young bitch may have come from one of the best breeders in the country. It works both ways and many a good pup, has been ruined by an inexperienced owner, but naturally it's always the breeders fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Before we jump on the owner, she is clearly trying to get help. If we slam owners for not being perfect right from the start people will just stop asking for help. And people shouldn't be so quick to slam the registered breeder who bred the dog. For all we know, this young bitch may have come from one of the best breeders in the country. It works both ways and many a good pup, has been ruined by an inexperienced owner, but naturally it's always the breeders fault. Agreed - but hte OP hasn't ever slammed the breeder - in fact she has said she has been given good support. Why does anyone need to be blamed in this situation? All the research in the world doesn't prepare you for the ball-of-cuteness-and-destruction that you bring home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 She's a Gundog that needs a job Wrong! A proper gun dog is capable of lots of disciplined inaction, and is a dog you can live with between hunts. A lunatic is intolerable in a shooting environment. You must have an off switch. This sort of temperament is as bad as high hip scores and worse than carrying PRA. I would say you've got a poorly bred bitch . . . conformation has been put over temperament. Talk with the breeder . . . they need feedback. They may not be willing to do anything to help. But they should know. And you should not breed this bitch, no matter how quickly she gets her Ch. Well sandgrubber I didn't realise you knew so much about Gordon Setters, but obviously you're an expert on all gundog breeds, you must be to make such disparaging statements about a dog, its parents and its breeder even though you've never met any of them. The dog in question was bred by a very well respected breeder and both the sire and the dam have excellent temperaments, atua can vouch for this, she has met the sire and had the dam living with her for a few months. Gordons need a lot of attention when young, they must have regular and consistent training and they have to be taught boundaries, they are also 'one family dogs' and become very attached to their people and isolating a Gordon in a kennel on its own is a recipe for disaster. Pav lova is correct, this bitch has a young, inexperienced owner who hasn't realised the amount the amount of work required, although in atua's defence she does run her own business and is also 8 months pregnant and probably wasn't prepared for a Gordon entering adolesence, they can be a real handful. Atua has been in touch with the breeder and she is doing everything she can to help (sorry to disappoint you sandgrubber) and I'm sure they can work things out between them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atua Posted October 25, 2011 Author Share Posted October 25, 2011 The breeder has been very informative and realiable. I dont believe that it is negligence on her behalf. I am the one to blame for this dogs behaviour because I have let it get to this stage. I had been trying to do new things that I thought may help the situation but none have seemed succesful. This dog has not been getting enough mental stimulation. Since getting this dog there have been some life changing factors within my day to day life such as opening a new business and taking on a new contract, finding out I was pregnant and moving so not everything that I had intended for this girl has been followed through with religiously. I am happy to put my hands up and take the blame because at the end of the day if I was doing the right thing things like whats happening wouldnt be happening. I am trying to make her life as good as I can and I just want her to be happy. As for clicker training I got given a clicker by a trainer at the obedience club I went to with her when we were doing puppy preschool. He gave it to me to use because she wasnt interested in food at that stage and the noise is what got her to walk rather than just lay down and not want to participate. After the second lesson she got jack of it and just wanted to lay down in the grass anyway so we stopped using the clicker and never went back to puppy school as she wasnt ready. Instead I waited a few months then did a few obedience lessons with her at a club and then just started doing it at home because the classes would clash with the dog shows on a Saturday morning. Pictures to come Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atua Posted October 25, 2011 Author Share Posted October 25, 2011 Head shot at 13 weeks I have had these put onto cushions Envy at work with a hat on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atua Posted October 25, 2011 Author Share Posted October 25, 2011 Some more pictures 13 weeks lazy shot (i also have this one on cushions) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Lovely photos atua, Gordons can be perfect angels at 3 months and absolute demons at one year of age As Envy is very food oriented I would definitely look into the Triangle of Temptation, I have found it a highly effective training tool and it made a world of difference to one of my boys who was a real little s**t at about the same age. It seems complicated at the beginning, but you'll soon get the hang of it and believe me it works! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atua Posted October 25, 2011 Author Share Posted October 25, 2011 Well sandgrubber I didn't realise you knew so much about Gordon Setters, but obviously you're an expert on all gundog breeds, you must be to make such disparaging statements about a dog, its parents and its breeder even though you've never met any of them. The dog in question was bred by a very well respected breeder and both the sire and the dam have excellent temperaments, atua can vouch for this, she has met the sire and had the dam living with her for a few months. Gordons need a lot of attention when young, they must have regular and consistent training and they have to be taught boundaries, they are also 'one family dogs' and become very attached to their people and isolating a Gordon in a kennel on its own is a recipe for disaster. Pav lova is correct, this bitch has a young, inexperienced owner who hasn't realised the amount the amount of work required, although in atua's defence she does run her own business and is also 8 months pregnant and probably wasn't prepared for a Gordon entering adolesence, they can be a real handful. Atua has been in touch with the breeder and she is doing everything she can to help (sorry to disappoint you sandgrubber) and I'm sure they can work things out between them. Both parents have super soft temperments and Miranda is right I had Courtney (pictured in picture at home for a few months to learn the ropes of a Gordon before obtaining a puppy). I am certain the sire was selected for this mating because of his temperment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 I love that 'lazy' shot . gorgeous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Good on you for doing all you can. I can understand your frustration. Young working dogs are very challenging. Don't make the mistake of thinking that having a baby wont affect this dogs life. It will radically affect yours and it's a flow on situation. Not saying anyone will suffer but you will be tired and even exhausted at times. Look after yourself and your family (two and four footed) as best you can as you will soon have some major changes in your energy levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atua Posted October 25, 2011 Author Share Posted October 25, 2011 Lovely photos atua, Gordons can be perfect angels at 3 months and absolute demons at one year of age As Envy is very food oriented I would definitely look into the Triangle of Temptation, I have found it a highly effective training tool and it made a world of difference to one of my boys who was a real little s**t at about the same age. It seems complicated at the beginning, but you'll soon get the hang of it and believe me it works! I am sure we can work it out and I will definately have a look at it. I started working with her last night at home doing some of the stuff that was suggested by the breeder and she worked really well. I am looking foward to getting home this afternoon and doing some more. I think it was hurting me more than anything because I had been trying and nothing seemed to be working. I had tried quite a few different things but obviously the more I gave her just made her that more demanding and want to take that bit more without actually doing anything for it. I even tried locking her in a crate at night but then she would bark at 430am for me to let her out and of course I would go and let her out into the yard. She has been crate trained and will bark when she needs to go to the toilet or if she had finished her food for me to come and get her bowl and let her out with the other dogs again. Since moving she isnt trying to boss the other dogs around as much. I ended up separating her from the other dogs before moving because she was getting to bossy to the point she would stand and bark at Atua if she was laying on a bed until she got up and moved away. She is alot more relaxed now in that sense and isnt being bossy to Atua except when I throw the ball for Atua. Envy doesnt get to play now when I play fetch with Atua because she kept biting her and I dont feel it was fair to Atua. I will keep you all updated on our progress. I am confident that the advice the breeder gave me will definately see improvement and I will be trying a few of the things suggested here also. Thank you to everyone who replied. I really appreciate it. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuddleDuck Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Nawwww she is so cute!! I have nothing constructive to add but a pat on the back for recognizing the issues and taking steps to correct them. She sounds like a lucky dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 (edited) What a gorgeous girl. The way in which you have used the clicker before is not the correct way. It seems you were using it as a cue rather than a marker. I think if you revisit it and use it as a marker (always coupled with a treat) then you will find she eggs on VERY quickly and great progress will be made and very quickly. Yes your life will change after bub, but you can still sit in the lounge room with a pot of treats and get her mind working. Bub can be asleep and you can grab a bit of time here and there to train. Goodluck with it and it sounds like you have a plan and a very supportive breeder. Edited October 25, 2011 by OSoSwift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuddleDuck Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Pacing around the house with a crying baby is a great chance to practice off lead heeling, I've recently discovered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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