Cavvies Purchased From Registered Breeder-

[julesluvscavs]

well thats a good and valid point Steve!

I have always said if anything was to happen to my husband and I that they would go back to the their breeder (she knows and was the one who brought it up originally that she was to be contacted if we couldn't keep them)

However after reading Steve's post, it has made me think that we should have another option just in case she couldn't take them back if something was to come up. It would be a last resort tho as we wouldn't send them back permanently just for the sake of moving etc..

[Guest lavendergirl]

Breeders just like everyone else have things happen to them they cant predict which affects their ability to take a dog back.

Breeders lost everything in floods, bushfires, they grow older and they move house,they loose their jobs,they get sick and its simply not

possible now to predict how taking an older dog back will have an impact and why it may not be in the best interests of the dog.

Ideally every breeder would be able to guarantee that they could do this or at least help in finding a new home etc and sometimes there seems to be no good reason as to why they wouldnt but life isnt that simple and to

expect someone can take a dog and in several years time because they decide they have to dump their dogs that the breeder will still be in the same position they were back then is a bit un realistic.

Funny that the owner appears to be off the hook and the focus is on the breeder not being interested even though its them deciding to throw away their family.

That might be a bit harsh also We don't know what the owner is feeling about having to give up their dogs. Sometimes there is not much choice - everyone has changing circumstances in their lives and nobody can guarantee where they will be in 5-10 years (including breeders).

[periannath]

I'm very glad Steve has brought up the issue of the owners responsibility.When a puppy is purchased there are two sides of the contract.The puppy buyer agrees to give the puppy a 'forever home' along with the care and attention that animal needs for it's life time.Circumstances can change for breeders as well.So only ever the buyer that has an excuse that is satisfactory?

One of international judges that was here recently for our speciality is the breed rescue in her state in the USA. and has been for many years.During a conversation about rehoming (and believe it or not this is discussed a lot between breeders) she said that she feels that by taking back our dogs without question we are making it far to easy for people to dispose of their dogs with a clean conscience.Those with a genuine reason for rehoming are not subjected to her routine but is reserved for those who treat the dogs as disposable.The rescue dogs no longer go direct to her.She explains the difficulty of rehoming older animals and the reality that the dog may have to be PTS.She gets the owners to take the dog to her local shelter and they have to leave not knowing what becomes of their dog.She then picks the dog up from the shelter.Harsh perhaps but maybe ,just maybe, it helps them to think about there being a consequence for their actions.

[WreckitWhippet]

I'm very glad Steve has brought up the issue of the owners responsibility.When a puppy is purchased there are two sides of the contract.The puppy buyer agrees to give the puppy a 'forever home' along with the care and attention that animal needs for it's life time.Circumstances can change for breeders as well.So only ever the buyer that has an excuse that is satisfactory?

One of international judges that was here recently for our speciality is the breed rescue in her state in the USA. and has been for many years.During a conversation about rehoming (and believe it or not this is discussed a lot between breeders) she said that she feels that by taking back our dogs without question we are making it far to easy for people to dispose of their dogs with a clean conscience.Those with a genuine reason for rehoming are not subjected to her routine but is reserved for those who treat the dogs as disposable.The rescue dogs no longer go direct to her.She explains the difficulty of rehoming older animals and the reality that the dog may have to be PTS.She gets the owners to take the dog to her local shelter and they have to leave not knowing what becomes of their dog.She then picks the dog up from the shelter.Harsh perhaps but maybe ,just maybe, it helps them to think about there being a consequence for their actions.

I can see her point, I think sometimes it is made too easy but I have an open door policy at my house and if I bred it or raised it, i will always take it back and help out in any way that I can, rather than see one of mine dumped or rehomed inappropriately.

I'm a bit torn, knowing how the dogs I've bred have been raised and lived, to think of them being dropped off at a shelter, even if I was going to collect them.

If something did happen to me and I was no longer in a position to take my own back, I do have a back up in place. I'm also committed to helping out a rescue, if they did come across one of mine and I couldn't have the dog back for whatever reason. I'd certainly fund the responsible rehoming of that dog, through an ethical rescue.

[periannath]

If ours was a sensitive or clingy breed, I wouldn't want them at a shelter either.However our breed unless mistreated or abused tends to be pretty naive about the idea that a shelter or a pound may be a bad place to be ! That goes for a vet visits as well.

Anyone who rescues/rehomes rapidly gets frustrated dealing with the 'no care' attitude of owners and I guess anything is worth a try.

Unfortunately with an open door policy for our own it doesn't always work. I have seen breeders accused of not helping to rehome or take the dog back when I know that the breeder has been actively involved in trying to buy the dog back or rehome.Some people when they decide to get rid of the dog, think they can 'recoup their losses' on the dog and won't listen to the breeder on a reasonable price for a dog for either rehoming or to buy back.They won't give the breeder time to come up with a sum of money often considerably larger than the puppy price as they want the dog gone NOW.When they find the breeder is right and they can't sell for the price they want they then surrender the dog and blame the breeder.

[Angeluca]

I am just curious since it has been said about open door breeders and such. I intend to in the distant future start breeding have my foundation stock. (All goes well with training and or showing and health tests) But I knew I would love to have the puppy back or know where it is going if such a problem happens and the home I chosen didn't work out. Do you refund the purchase money ??? or any money ??? (this could be controversial I know )

I understand that once the pup leave on a realistic level I do have no say. But if the people i sell my baby to refuses to return due to not getting their money back what do you do? Cause you know in your heart that if you don't take it anyone willing to cash up will get them. Scary thought!

Edited October 26, 2011 by Angeluca

[WreckitWhippet]

I've only had one come back as a puppy, I told the owner that they'd get a refund, when the pup was sold ( to a suitable and approved home ) less costs.

As for paying full price for an adult, I don't know about that, I haven't been placed in that position. I have been willing to take back and adult and have done that once, to be rehomed, I'm also all for helping out where I can, if a puppy buyer falls on hard times or their circumstances change. I know my pups are in the most loving of homes that will do just about anything to keep them.

[aussielover]

Breeders just like everyone else have things happen to them they cant predict which affects their ability to take a dog back.

Ideally every breeder would be able to guarantee that they could do this or at least help in finding a new home etc and sometimes there seems to be no good reason as to why they wouldnt but life isnt that simple and to

expect someone can take a dog and in several years time because they decide they have to dump their dogs that the breeder will still be in the same position they were back then is a bit un realistic.

Funny that the owner appears to be off the hook and the focus is on the breeder not being interested even though its them deciding to throw away their family.

I totally agree with this.

Although it would be ideal if breeders could take their dogs back or help rehome, sometimes it isn't possible and I believe it is fully the current owners responsibility to rehome the dog, no matter what the reason.

[Steve]

Breeders just like everyone else have things happen to them they cant predict which affects their ability to take a dog back.

Breeders lost everything in floods, bushfires, they grow older and they move house,they loose their jobs,they get sick and its simply not

possible now to predict how taking an older dog back will have an impact and why it may not be in the best interests of the dog.

Ideally every breeder would be able to guarantee that they could do this or at least help in finding a new home etc and sometimes there seems to be no good reason as to why they wouldnt but life isnt that simple and to

expect someone can take a dog and in several years time because they decide they have to dump their dogs that the breeder will still be in the same position they were back then is a bit un realistic.

Funny that the owner appears to be off the hook and the focus is on the breeder not being interested even though its them deciding to throw away their family.

That might be a bit harsh also We don't know what the owner is feeling about having to give up their dogs. Sometimes there is not much choice - everyone has changing circumstances in their lives and nobody can guarantee where they will be in 5-10 years (including breeders).

Of course it might be - judging someone - anyone before you know the circumstances always has that potential. What Im saying is why blame one over the other before you know the facts?

[Mason_Gibbs]

Breeders just like everyone else have things happen to them they cant predict which affects their ability to take a dog back.

Ideally every breeder would be able to guarantee that they could do this or at least help in finding a new home etc and sometimes there seems to be no good reason as to why they wouldnt but life isnt that simple and to

expect someone can take a dog and in several years time because they decide they have to dump their dogs that the breeder will still be in the same position they were back then is a bit un realistic.

Funny that the owner appears to be off the hook and the focus is on the breeder not being interested even though its them deciding to throw away their family.

I totally agree with this.

Although it would be ideal if breeders could take their dogs back or help rehome, sometimes it isn't possible and I believe it is fully the current owners responsibility to rehome the dog, no matter what the reason.

agree with you Aussielover

[Trisven13]

Breeders just like everyone else have things happen to them they cant predict which affects their ability to take a dog back.

Ideally every breeder would be able to guarantee that they could do this or at least help in finding a new home etc and sometimes there seems to be no good reason as to why they wouldnt but life isnt that simple and to

expect someone can take a dog and in several years time because they decide they have to dump their dogs that the breeder will still be in the same position they were back then is a bit un realistic.

Funny that the owner appears to be off the hook and the focus is on the breeder not being interested even though its them deciding to throw away their family.

I totally agree with this.

Although it would be ideal if breeders could take their dogs back or help rehome, sometimes it isn't possible and I believe it is fully the current owners responsibility to rehome the dog, no matter what the reason.

agree with you Aussielover

Regardless of whether or not a breeder can take their dog back a GOOD breeder will always care that their dog needs a new home. Sadly, much as I feel like this is not a popular opinion on DOL, there are MANY registered breeders who don't care past the point of sale. Thankfully there are also some wonderful breeders who do everything WITHIN THEIR POWER to help their dog - that can be support for the new owner, a donation to the rescue group OR taking the dog back themselves. I vividly recall one example of a beautiful pedigree dog surrendered - the breeder had terminal cancer and his wife was disabled - he cried that he couldn't help the dog of his breeding and did everything he could before he passed away to ensure that we rehomed the dog to the best of our ability. I can't imagine not caring that a rescue I rehomed needed help and I've rehomed more rescues than most breeders have rehomed pups they've bred. Personally I would rather rehome a dog I bred (or rescued) myself as I would like to know that the new owner knows to call on me for help.

[zenchel]

Regardless of whether or not a breeder can take their dog back a GOOD breeder will always care that their dog needs a new home. Sadly, much as I feel like this is not a popular opinion on DOL, there are MANY registered breeders who don't care past the point of sale.

This very much sums up where I'm coming from. I don't intend to comment on the particular case, because nobody knows, including the OP, what the truth of the situation is. I simply reacted to the idea that there is no obligation on a breeder to take back a dog they have bred. I don't accept that idea. Yes, people's situations change and sometimes there is a physical impediment to the original breeder actually taking the dog back into their home, however there are many other ways to be actively involved in ensuring a new home is found for the dog asap. In my experience in rescue, there are far too many breeders that are happy to take the dollars when the pups turn eight weeks, however eight months, two years, five years down the track, they can't help. Often, the dog is having to be rehomed because the choice of home wasn't suitable in the first place, responsibility for which lies squarely in the breeders' lap. When I end up with a dog being surrendered that has papers and I call the breeder to tell them a pup of theirs is in rescue, I get "So...??" Once, I was even told "oh, I couldn't possibly take the dog back, I've got two litters on the ground and haven't time or space!" As you can tell, I tend to have a fairly jaundiced view of some breeders.

Not really interested in deciding on what side the blame lies, just like to focus on the fact that there is a dog that is no longer wanted in its present home so it's in the dog's interests to get him out of that situation and into one where he is safe and loved. Can't understand how any breeder worth their salt wouldn't do everything in their power to achieve that outcome.

Probably a bit too black and white for some, but there you go.

[BJean]

Regardless of whether or not a breeder can take their dog back a GOOD breeder will always care that their dog needs a new home. Sadly, much as I feel like this is not a popular opinion on DOL, there are MANY registered breeders who don't care past the point of sale.

This very much sums up where I'm coming from. I don't intend to comment on the particular case, because nobody knows, including the OP, what the truth of the situation is. I simply reacted to the idea that there is no obligation on a breeder to take back a dog they have bred. I don't accept that idea. Yes, people's situations change and sometimes there is a physical impediment to the original breeder actually taking the dog back into their home, however there are many other ways to be actively involved in ensuring a new home is found for the dog asap. In my experience in rescue, there are far too many breeders that are happy to take the dollars when the pups turn eight weeks, however eight months, two years, five years down the track, they can't help. Often, the dog is having to be rehomed because the choice of home wasn't suitable in the first place, responsibility for which lies squarely in the breeders' lap. When I end up with a dog being surrendered that has papers and I call the breeder to tell them a pup of theirs is in rescue, I get "So...??" Once, I was even told "oh, I couldn't possibly take the dog back, I've got two litters on the ground and haven't time or space!" As you can tell, I tend to have a fairly jaundiced view of some breeders.

This is not the case at all.

But I guess you are green to putting dogs/pups in homes and dont have the experience to know better.

[yarracully]

Breeders just like everyone else have things happen to them they cant predict which affects their ability to take a dog back.

Breeders lost everything in floods, bushfires, they grow older and they move house,they loose their jobs,they get sick and its simply not

possible now to predict how taking an older dog back will have an impact and why it may not be in the best interests of the dog.

Ideally every breeder would be able to guarantee that they could do this or at least help in finding a new home etc and sometimes there seems to be no good reason as to why they wouldnt but life isnt that simple and to

expect someone can take a dog and in several years time because they decide they have to dump their dogs that the breeder will still be in the same position they were back then is a bit un realistic.

Funny that the owner appears to be off the hook and the focus is on the breeder not being interested even though its them deciding to throw away their family.

I agree with Steve on this. Actually it goes a long way as to why there are so many dogs in shelters etc. The people get the dog then as soon as circumstances change (As they do in everyones life) simply offload the dog.

I once sold a pup to some people that lived nearby. A few months later I saw a pup of one of my breeds advertised as a purebreed in a local garage sale.It was the one that I bred. The reason for selling it -"it gets out of the yard through a hole in the fence" so rather than fix the hole it was easier to get rid of the dog. These people have since gotten another dog anyway.

I really think that within modern society there are many that don't seem to understand the meaning of responsibility. I work on the theory that when you get a dog you are responsibile for it for life- not just until it becomes too difficult. To the extent that I have refused a transfer and promotion at work simply because I wouldn't be able to relocate with all my dogs- I could only take a few and I would have been over the council limit by two dogs within the council area I was to move too. Because of those extra two dogs I didn't take the promo. I decision I have not once regretted.

Although there are many breeders that will take a pup back or assist with rehoming there is no obligation. Breeders have lives too and are not here to clean up after everyone elses situations and whims.

Its the dog owners that have changed circumstance not the breeders, therefore its the owners problem not the breeders. The owners circumstances changed its up to them to make the arrangements.

Flame me if you like but as far as I'm concerned its about time some people grew up and were accountable for their actions.

[LizT]

Breeders just like everyone else have things happen to them they cant predict which affects their ability to take a dog back.

Breeders lost everything in floods, bushfires, they grow older and they move house,they loose their jobs,they get sick and its simply not

possible now to predict how taking an older dog back will have an impact and why it may not be in the best interests of the dog.

Ideally every breeder would be able to guarantee that they could do this or at least help in finding a new home etc and sometimes there seems to be no good reason as to why they wouldnt but life isnt that simple and to

expect someone can take a dog and in several years time because they decide they have to dump their dogs that the breeder will still be in the same position they were back then is a bit un realistic.

Funny that the owner appears to be off the hook and the focus is on the breeder not being interested even though its them deciding to throw away their family.

I agree with Steve on this. Actually it goes a long way as to why there are so many dogs in shelters etc. The people get the dog then as soon as circumstances change (As they do in everyones life) simply offload the dog.

I once sold a pup to some people that lived nearby. A few months later I saw a pup of one of my breeds advertised as a purebreed in a local garage sale.It was the one that I bred. The reason for selling it -"it gets out of the yard through a hole in the fence" so rather than fix the hole it was easier to get rid of the dog. These people have since gotten another dog anyway.

I really think that within modern society there are many that don't seem to understand the meaning of responsibility. I work on the theory that when you get a dog you are responsibile for it for life- not just until it becomes too difficult. To the extent that I have refused a transfer and promotion at work simply because I wouldn't be able to relocate with all my dogs- I could only take a few and I would have been over the council limit by two dogs within the council area I was to move too. Because of those extra two dogs I didn't take the promo. I decision I have not once regretted.

Although there are many breeders that will take a pup back or assist with rehoming there is no obligation. Breeders have lives too and are not here to clean up after everyone elses situations and whims.

Its the dog owners that have changed circumstance not the breeders, therefore its the owners problem not the breeders. The owners circumstances changed its up to them to make the arrangements.

Flame me if you like but as far as I'm concerned its about time some people grew up and were accountable for their actions.

I agree with what you say. Everyone should be held accountable for their responsiblities. However that said, as a Cavalier Breeder myself it would have been nice if the breeder of these dogs had a least directed the owner who needed to surrender her dogs to "Cavalier Rescue" via the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel Club of Victoria.

That's not going to be too much of an ask is it?

[Gretel]

From a breeders point of view I want the dog back to either rehome or be sure of where it's going. I'd hate to think one of my 'babies' was passed from pillar to post. Over the years I've had one back to rehome and helped with rehousing another. I am lucky that Cavaliers are such an easy breed to take back and/or rehouse. With many breeds it could be quite difficult for a breeder to take an older dog back.

[zenchel]

This is not the case at all.

But I guess you are green to putting dogs/pups in homes and dont have the experience to know better.

Yes, that must be it. Thanks for pointing it out to me.

Cheers,

Sylvia

[gone]

*

Edited March 2, 2012 by gone

[BJean]

This is not the case at all.

But I guess you are green to putting dogs/pups in homes and dont have the experience to know better.

Yes, that must be it. Thanks for pointing it out to me.

Cheers,

Sylvia

anytime.

[LizT]

From a breeders point of view I want the dog back to either rehome or be sure of where it's going. I'd hate to think one of my 'babies' was passed from pillar to post. Over the years I've had one back to rehome and helped with rehousing another. I am lucky that Cavaliers are such an easy breed to take back and/or rehouse. With many breeds it could be quite difficult for a breeder to take an older dog back.

Indeed Gretal we are lucky there. Some breeds just don't get along and are difficult to rehome.

Not knowing the circumstances of the breeder in question (don't really know if they are even regisered, was it mentioned?) I'm not going to judge.

Just hope these dogs find new stable homes soon.