flame ryder Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 My German Shepard dog has a problem...she wants to kill other dogs. She has progressed to class 1, and ready to go to class 2. She really could be a very good obedience dog....I think I could go far with her if it wasn't for her issues. She came to us as a rescue dog at around 18 months of age so there could be reasons we don't know about for her behavior. I cant let my guard down even for a second, sneeze, swat a fly away, blow my nose...whatever she'll take the opportunity to lunge at other dogs and of course conversation with others is outta the question completely. I've started taking her out wearing a muzzle so as we don't intimidate others. It doesn't help as she still lunges at other dogs but least I know she can't bite them with the muzzle on so it gives me piece of mind there. She's completely fine with her own pack (our other dogs), even letting the Chinese Crested pinch food out of her bowl(I think he's the boss actually)and there's no aggression towards people. She knows I am pack leader and is mostly well behaved. People say this aggression is something she will always have. This will restrict me in classes as I'll never be able to have her off lead and agility is out of the question. Has anyone else ever tried to train a really aggressive dog? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 you are not your dogs pack leader and don't get entrenched in modern pop words around behaviour like this. Give Mark Singer a call ASAP, this is something you need to work on before progressing with obedience classes since they do not know how to handle your dogs behaviour and improve it. http://caninetraining.com.au/ Mark is a behaviourists and working breeds like German Shepherds are his speciality. On another note whether your dog is truely aggressive is a whole different issue. Considering what you wrote I hazard a guess she isnt truely deep down dangerously aggressive BUT incredibly reactive as a lot of shepherds here in Australia are. Your situation is one I deal with a low especially with shepherds, border collies and a few other common breeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deejay Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 (edited) Edited October 24, 2011 by Deejay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 My mum's dog has the same problem, although probably not as severe as the original posters. Most of the time she is okay at the dog park but every now and again she will have a go at another dog. I have read the above information, BUT has anyone on the forum had experience with this and can offer direct suggestions or tips on ways to deal with this behaviour? Any help would be appreciated that I could pass on to mum. I have also suggested that she gets a muzzle for her dog for the meantime, and join her local dog training club. Thanks in advance for any help. Stop taking the dog to dog parks. Why on EARTH would you take a dog which you KNOW has a history of attacking other dogs to a dog park??????? I won't use dog parks anyway and this is just one more example of why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 the answer is basic. Do not take a dog like this to somewhere there are other dogs. Contact a recommended professional to assess and advise and educate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Arab Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 (edited) I really must agree with the above. For your sanity and the dog's sake stop taking this dog out in public right now. Imagine if an incident occurs, you are going to have a heck of a job convincing a grieving owner or the council that you thought it was ok. In the end your dog will either be declared dangerous or seized. From your dogs point of view i doubt these walks are very pleasant anyway, can i assume he would prefer to be at home than in an uncomfortable muzzle in a stressful environment with a handler that is stressed and not helping him relax at all? I know many feel your pain and I believe Ian Dunbar refers to this as the hardest problem to work on as there is no safe way to treat it or to know if you have resolved it and it takes a very very long time to resolve. Good on you for asking for suggestions go and find a good trainer (I don't think it necessarily has to be a vet behaviourist but it definitely needs to be someone with a lot of experience that comes with recommendations) and listen to them. But please for everyone's sake leave the aggressive / stressed dog at home and enjoy the park with your other dogs. Edited October 24, 2011 by Bull Arab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Deejay - where is your mother situated? perhaps we can recommend someone to help her? And I don't think at this time , it's a good plan to take an unpredictable, potentially aggressive dog to obedience classes. Better to be assessed and safely helped at home ..then when your mum learns more about what's going on.... maybe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deejay Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 My mum's dog has the same problem, although probably not as severe as the original posters. Most of the time she is okay at the dog park but every now and again she will have a go at another dog. I have read the above information, BUT has anyone on the forum had experience with this and can offer direct suggestions or tips on ways to deal with this behaviour? Any help would be appreciated that I could pass on to mum. I have also suggested that she gets a muzzle for her dog for the meantime, and join her local dog training club. Thanks in advance for any help. Stop taking the dog to dog parks. Why on EARTH would you take a dog which you KNOW has a history of attacking other dogs to a dog park??????? I won't use dog parks anyway and this is just one more example of why. Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately they live in the city, they are only allowed to use the dog parks. There's virtually no-where else to take her within a 20km radius (maybe more) of there house (unless someone around Cammeray can suggest anywhere?) Mum works full time so during the week they really do need to use a dog park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasels Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 teela - I second everything Nekhbet said. Best advice you'll get for free IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately they live in the city, they are only allowed to use the dog parks. There's virtually no-where else to take her within a 20km radius (maybe more) of there house (unless someone around Cammeray can suggest anywhere?) Mum works full time so during the week they really do need to use a dog park. So they don't have footpaths and dog leashes where they live? They know the dog has previously attacked but are willing to risk not only the life of strangers' dogs but also their own dog's life by persisting it taking the dog somewhere it has free uncontrolled access to random strange dogs. This is an appalling example of irresponsible ownership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deejay Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Thanks for all your replies, I really appreciate it. They have a very small backyard the dog needs to get out and be play. I think its unfair to keep her from being walked and have a ball thrown for her. So I believe, yes she would be happier out with a muzzle on than at home for the rest of her life. Just to give you more information, they've already tried a few trainers and behaviourists. They've paid heaps unfortunately (this is in relation to a different problem) which has helped but I just assumed other people on the forum might have been through something like this and could offer personal advice instead of paying hundreds again!! Just to also note, I get the impression you guys think my mums dog is really vicious. The dog is not as bad as the original posters dog at all, she is generally really great with other dogs, she plays here with our dog when they can visit (not very often though) I think sometimes she just gets a bit over the top. I haven't actually seen her "have a go" at another dog but as far as I am aware its nothing really vicious, but obviously they prefer to stop the negative behaviour incase it progresses to anything dangerous. I guess at the end of the day if no one has been through this before, there's not much point in me posting this! Problem is that you can pay thousands going through trainers trying to find the right one, it is a very financially difficult road to take! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flame ryder Posted October 24, 2011 Author Share Posted October 24, 2011 but isn't that why we take them to obedience classes in the first place? I was never discouraged from going infact they've told me how much she has improved since starting. They tell me that she is just like that and I'll never completely get it out of her. And I don't let my dog off the leash, even with the muzzle. I always keep my distance from other dogs and warn people not to let their dogs play with her. I don't go to dog parks either (unless you count the obedience classes). I have considered stopping taking her to training. She's quite happy here, has plenty of space and we have plenty of places to walk her where we see no-one else as we are in the country. Her behaviour around here and walking in the forest or beach with us is excellent. It's only when we meet other dogs. Sooooooooo maybe I'll just quit taking her to the obedience classes, I'm pretty sure it wont bother her in the least. Thanks for the advice anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Why can't the dog be walked on a lead locally? That would give it enough exercise and sniffing time Millions of dogs live their lives without the stress of a dog park . There is help available if your mum's in a city . Ask on here, and we'll point you in the right direction ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deejay Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Why can't the dog be walked on a lead locally? That would give it enough exercise and sniffing time Millions of dogs live their lives without the stress of a dog park . There is help available if your mum's in a city . Ask on here, and we'll point you in the right direction ! For city dogs that dont have yards big enough for them to chase a ball etc, I dont think its fair they shouldnt ever get to know the freedom of being about to have a big run around. I feel that by saying "dont use dog parks" and only walking on a lead, seems to be just avoiding the problem. Thats not training, thats avoidance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 (edited) If your dog is aggressive towards other dogs, there is no way you should be going to a dog park! Get help from a trainer or behaviourist for the aggressive behaviour. Until then you just have to suck it up and walk on lead only. It is not fair on others or your dog to expose them to aggressive behaviour. For a run around, do they know anyone with some space where the dog can run every now and again? And I do have a dog aggro dog, so I know how it feels. I wish I had gotten proper help MUCH earlier with my dog. Here is someone they could try (for the Sydney person) http://www.k9pro.com.au/ What wouldn't hurt is to do some focus exercises so they can get the dog's attention back on them when it sees another dog. Edited October 24, 2011 by Kavik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 (edited) Thats not training, thats avoidance! It is indeed- avoiding potential fatal dog injuries/law suits/personal injury...and I'm all for it! getting PROFESSIONAL HELP is what is necessary. until that is done - why, yes, avoidance is my recommendation and there are HEAPS of things which can be done with dogs on lead ... they don't have to chase balls to be fulfilled and content . Edited October 24, 2011 by persephone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Deejay - what kind of dog is it? Trick training is a great way to keep them occupied and doesn't require a lot of space That's all I have done so far today due to the heat, hopefully it cools down later and I can take them for a walk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Deejay, please remember that bad experiences can ruin a dog for life. If you think it's unfair that she doesn't get off leash time, how unfair do you think it is to the innocent dogs that get attacked/scared in the process????? It doesn't have to be an attack that results in injury, all it has to do is give the other dog a fright and their temperament can be changed forever. One of my dogs is a performance dog (obedience and agility) and after each bad experience I really have to work to keep her confidence up. Our years of training could be completely ruined by one dog "taking a dislike" to her. Not to mention it scares the absolute bajeezus out of me. I get very, very, very upset and angry when people let their aggressive dogs near her. It is simply not fair. My other dog is not 100% reliable off lead so he simply doesn't get walked off lead unless in a very safe or fenced area. That being said his off leash time is pretty much limited to fenced dog parks (generally when they are empty) or the grounds at dog club. He only gets to be off leash maybe once a week or fortnight. Sure it's annoying, but we deal with it because we try to be responsible owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flame ryder Posted October 24, 2011 Author Share Posted October 24, 2011 Deejay seeing as you hi-jacked my post......does your mother's dog really even have a problem? Sounds like any other dog to me. I wont trust any dog. Even the quietest, friendliest and sweetest looking of dogs can just meet another dog they don't like and snap. Any dog can be having a bad day. It can happen to anyone. It's a risk we all take when we allow our dogs to sniff and play with other dogs. At the end of the day they are dogs and we can't read their minds. At least your mothers dog seems ok with other dogs some of the time. My dog on the other hand wants to lunge at all strange dogs all of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC Crazy Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Hmmm. I think it is wrong & very irresponsible for any dog owner to unleash a "knowingly" aggressive dog in a public place. Be it a park e.t.c leash-free area or not. It jepardizes poor, unaware members of the public & their much loved four legged companions who are out & about enjoying their day. IMO must be leashed at all times & under control of the owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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