Obedience Hell

[Agility Dogs]

He's just a baby, keep the sessions to around 10 minutes or so then give him a break. It's a HUGE ask for a puppy to concentrate longer than that, and on hot days even 10 minutes is pushing it.

• agree with this .

ABSOLUTELY. To put this in a bit of context, I have always told my students not to work their dogs for any more than a nominal 2 minutes.

At the ADAA Grand Prix we did 2 minute practice sessions before competition started. VERY few of the dogs - even the experienced ones could work for 2 minutes without their brains exploding.

I know obedience is a bit different, but for a 6 month old puppy I'd be asking for a lot less than 10 minutes before having a rest. (Not having a go at anyone who has suggested this, just giving another perspective.) Think of it this way - can you stay fun and interesting for 10 minutes? If not then why should you dog stay interested for that amount of time.

[suziwong66]

Wilbur is a shocker at obedience he just wants to play with the dog in front of him or the dog behind him I approach it with a relaxed attitude; it's all fun. While we're there to learn we're also there to just chill and have fun. I don't want my focus to be so serious that i feel like we're failing. Wilbur goes to training really hungry, but it makes no difference; he's all about p-mail and slobbers At home in the back yard when we're practicing he's amazing but put another dog in the equation and it all turns to custard

[Mason_Gibbs]

Suzie thats normal especially for an only dog.

[lovemyrottie]

thanks again guys!

so far my plan is not to feed him anymore before training, exercise him a few minutes before training on the other side of the oval where we don't train so it's free from distractions (maybe a person or two which should be fine) and burn off some of his excess energy, start class while continuing to reward his "focus on me" if needed and if he goes well for at least 10 minutes or for how ever long he's co-operating then we'll take a break (while receiving funny looks from the instructor and others) and further ourselves from the distractions while continuing some more "focus on me" excercises (thinking of taking my clicker to reward as much eye contact as possible) then go from there... either continue training in short bursts or if he's really had enough we'll leave it at that because i'd rather a good 10 minute session than a bad 45 minute one!

what do you guys think? any other suggestions?

suziwong66, you're right! i probably do take it too serious, lol.

and boxagirl, when you click eye contact do you have a cue like "watch" or just click eye contact on it's own?

cheers :D

[suziwong66]

Suzie thats normal especially for an only dog.

i'm not bothered about him and his bum sniffing focus I'm pretty sure he'll settle down when he realises that seeing that many dogs every Tuesday is the norm. I like that most of his doggy contact is in a controlled environment like obedience; i like less, the on-the-spot meetings at pet stores etc where a number of the dogs & owners we meet are out of control.

[suziwong66]

thanks again guys!

so far my plan is not to feed him anymore before training, exercise him a few minutes before training on the other side of the oval where we don't train so it's free from distractions (maybe a person or two which should be fine) and burn off some of his excess energy, start class while continuing to reward his "focus on me" if needed and if he goes well for at least 10 minutes or for how ever long he's co-operating then we'll take a break (while receiving funny looks from the instructor and others) and further ourselves from the distractions while continuing some more "focus on me" excercises (thinking of taking my clicker to reward as much eye contact as possible) then go from there... either continue training in short bursts or if he's really had enough we'll leave it at that because i'd rather a good 10 minute session than a bad 45 minute one!

what do you guys think? any other suggestions?

suziwong66, you're right! i probably do take it too serious, lol.

and boxagirl, when you click eye contact do you have a cue like "watch" or just click eye contact on it's own?

cheers :D

When i click eye contact, i began with luring food from his nose to my eyes. when he moved his gaze from the lure to my eyes he got a click immediately and then a treat. Once he knew what was going on (not long, only a few clicks) i began to lure from nose to eye. as soon as i got eye contact i said 'look' and clicked then treated.

Eventually i removed the lure. used my lure hand movement. when i got a look, i clicked and said look then teated. Eventually i i removed the lure movement and just pointed to my eyes and said look. when i got a gaze i clicked and treated. Then i took the hand movement away and said 'look' and clicked and treated. Then i stopped clicking and just used verbal and hand cues. I like to keep my hand cues so i make sure i frequently point to my eyes and say look to get the behaviour.

[RubyStar]

With eye contact, you want to make the dog think it's their idea and have them offer it without cue. Focus should be automatic and not on cue (I say should, because even at almost 5 years old, it's not always automatic with my outgoing Labrador! ) Just wait the dog out, if they look at you, Click/Treat. I'm doing this with my mum's 5 month old pup and she is catching on pretty well. Haven't ever given her a "look" command. I used to try and cue "look" for my own dog for many years when I started out and it was never a strong enough behaviour to become a default behaviour to fall back on when she wasn't sure what to do. It is much better these days though with changing the approach

[Tassie]

then we'll take a break (while receiving funny looks from the instructor and others) and further ourselves from the distractions while continuing some more "focus on me" excercises

Sounds good lmr - except that I would say - when you take a break, make sure there's a bit of genuine relaxation first - let his brain relax, let him have a sniff or a pee or both, and just a wander round - then get back into the focus - hand touch is also a good one to get him focussed on you. Gives you a chance to relax too.

I would have a qord with the instructor beforehand, and explain that you want to be able to take him off for a pee, drink, whatever every now and again. That way the instructor won't be surprised.

I still do this when I take my boy into class - and he's now 3 - but he needs a complete break from the class situation and the concentration every now and again - then he's more ready to work.

[megan_]

When i click eye contact, i began with luring food from his nose to my eyes. when he moved his gaze from the lure to my eyes he got a click immediately and then a treat. Once he knew what was going on (not long, only a few clicks) i began to lure from nose to eye. as soon as i got eye contact i said 'look' and clicked then treated.

I do the opposite - I'm not a fan of luring unless it is the only way to get the dog to do something - dogs don't think with the lure.

I hold the treat away from me (arm extended). The dog looks at the treat. Eventually, they'll be thinking "WTF?" and look at you. The second they look, I click and treat (not the treat being held out, treat with my other hand, food in pocket). After a few times most dogs will focus on you, away from the treat. The dog has learnt to focus on you to get what it wants.

To the OP - I'd end the session waaay before my dog got bored, leave them wanting more. I think 10 mins is a long training session! I've done 30 second stints before. I'd add a "we're working" queue and "we're finished!" queue too and move out of the area when we are having a break. Make it super easy for your dog to know when they're training or when they're allowed to goof off.

[Mason_Gibbs]

With eye contact, you want to make the dog think it's their idea and have them offer it without cue. Focus should be automatic and not on cue (I say should, because even at almost 5 years old, it's not always automatic with my outgoing Labrador! ) Just wait the dog out, if they look at you, Click/Treat. I'm doing this with my mum's 5 month old pup and she is catching on pretty well. Haven't ever given her a "look" command. I used to try and cue "look" for my own dog for many years when I started out and it was never a strong enough behaviour to become a default behaviour to fall back on when she wasn't sure what to do. It is much better these days though with changing the approach

Iv never lured eye contact in fact i make it hard and hold food not anywhere near my face like in my hand etc snd when they look at my face i click treat. I also make sure Gibbs is sitting in heel position on my left, i found it hard to transfer everything from in front if me to the left with Mason.

[Mason_Gibbs]

When i click eye contact, i began with luring food from his nose to my eyes. when he moved his gaze from the lure to my eyes he got a click immediately and then a treat. Once he knew what was going on (not long, only a few clicks) i began to lure from nose to eye. as soon as i got eye contact i said 'look' and clicked then treated.

I do the opposite - I'm not a fan of luring unless it is the only way to get the dog to do something - dogs don't think with the lure.

I hold the treat away from me (arm extended). The dog looks at the treat. Eventually, they'll be thinking "WTF?" and look at you. The second they look, I click and treat (not the treat being held out, treat with my other hand, food in pocket). After a few times most dogs will focus on you, away from the treat. The dog has learnt to focus on you to get what it wants.

To the OP - I'd end the session waaay before my dog got bored, leave them wanting more. I think 10 mins is a long training session! I've done 30 second stints before. I'd add a "we're working" queue and "we're finished!" queue too and move out of the area when we are having a break. Make it super easy for your dog to know when they're training or when they're allowed to goof off.

I do my eye contact the same way.

[RubyStar]

When i click eye contact, i began with luring food from his nose to my eyes. when he moved his gaze from the lure to my eyes he got a click immediately and then a treat. Once he knew what was going on (not long, only a few clicks) i began to lure from nose to eye. as soon as i got eye contact i said 'look' and clicked then treated.

I do the opposite - I'm not a fan of luring unless it is the only way to get the dog to do something - dogs don't think with the lure.

I hold the treat away from me (arm extended). The dog looks at the treat. Eventually, they'll be thinking "WTF?" and look at you. The second they look, I click and treat (not the treat being held out, treat with my other hand, food in pocket). After a few times most dogs will focus on you, away from the treat. The dog has learnt to focus on you to get what it wants.

To the OP - I'd end the session waaay before my dog got bored, leave them wanting more. I think 10 mins is a long training session! I've done 30 second stints before. I'd add a "we're working" queue and "we're finished!" queue too and move out of the area when we are having a break. Make it super easy for your dog to know when they're training or when they're allowed to goof off.

I do my eye contact the same way.

Yes same here, I also incoporate that approach. It still makes the dog make it their own choice to look at you, instead of asking for it, and makes the behaviour stronger

[lovemyrottie]

yeah, i've seen some youtube videos where they train "watch" or whatever like that! i'll try it

[boxagirl]

and boxagirl, when you click eye contact do you have a cue like "watch" or just click eye contact on it's own?

No cue As I want my dogs to offer it freely without me having to "nag" them for it- they never know when they will get a reward just for staring at me :D