german_shep_fan Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 (edited) So what do ppl define as a byb dog? Is it just a dog that comes without reg papers? Or is it more the conditions they are raised in ect? Unless you are going to show the dog i dont think it is a crime to not want their papers. Unless breeding or showing they are really not useful for anything lol But i guess thats just me. My boy had papers that the breeder offered my dad when he got him for me but he didnt bother taking them Edited October 20, 2011 by german_shep_fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 A byb is generally defined as a non ankc registered breeder. It has nothing to do with them providing the dog's pedigree paperwork. A registered breeder who fails to provide a pedigree with an entire dog is just a stupid and unethical registered breeder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I recently came across a dodgy backyard breeder selling Akita pups in Loganlea. He was registered breeder online with DOL yet his pups were being advertised on sites like trading post, gumtree et which I thought was odd. Just to let you know ethical breeders do also advertise on the sites you quoted. I know because I am one of them. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
german_shep_fan Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 A byb is generally defined as a non ankc registered breeder. It has nothing to do with them providing the dog's pedigree paperwork. A registered breeder who fails to provide a pedigree with an entire dog is just a stupid and unethical registered breeder. Cool thanks for your reply I dont know much abt the registration to diff councils ect. But what if your a member of the CCC and you have a permit from you local council, reg with your breed club ect but not reg with the ankc? Are you still considered unethical? Sorry just curious, there seems to be so many different organisations breeders can register with these days. And at the end of the day even though these responsible breeders do all the necessary health checks ect things can sometimes still go wrong with a pup i guess. I am always wary of a breeder who says their pups will never have health problems. I have always been curious to know on average which fair better in the long run, a heinz variety or a purebreed dog? There is nothing wrong with either, i love all dogs but it would be very interesting to see stats on health probs of mutts ect vs purebreeds. Just out of pure curiosity lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
german_shep_fan Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I recently came across a dodgy backyard breeder selling Akita pups in Loganlea. He was registered breeder online with DOL yet his pups were being advertised on sites like trading post, gumtree et which I thought was odd. Just to let you know ethical breeders do also advertise on the sites you quoted. I know because I am one of them. :D I know of a few who advertise thru the local papers that are also ankc reg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I recently came across a dodgy backyard breeder selling Akita pups in Loganlea. He was registered breeder online with DOL yet his pups were being advertised on sites like trading post, gumtree et which I thought was odd. Just to let you know ethical breeders do also advertise on the sites you quoted. I know because I am one of them. :D Me too - I even advertise in places like this when I dont have puppies and I encourage all responsible registered breeders to do the same. Sometimes registered breeders call other registered breeders back yard breeders or puppy farmers because they dont approve of what they think the breeder is doing. Deciding you have a problem breeder based on what some other breeder told you is not always an accurate assessment. Sometimes breeders do describe their registered pedigree papers as birth certificates - thats exactly what they are. If a breeder offers you a puppy which is not an ANKC registered pup and sells it to you in the beleif it is when it isnt - thats fraud and against the law .Go to the police. If the breeder is breeding both ANKC registered and non ANKC registered and you want Troy to rub them out because of this - that is virtually impossible for someone who simply runs an advertising service to police or investigate fairly and its not against the rules or codes of the ANKC anyway as long as they are not breeding their ANKC registered dogs to produce unregistered puppies. Bit silly to ask Troy to stop it when he isnt responsible for ensuring people who are members of the states CCs are remaining within their regs. If you have really found a registered breeder who is selling puppies from their ANKC registered dogs and they are not registering the puppies then its not Troy you need to be worrying about - Why not go to the state CC and ask them to investigate and have the breeder removed from the membership. If all you have found is a registered breeder who is not testing their parent stock or who is not showing their dogs then a hell of a lot of people who advertise here would be gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 (edited) A byb is generally defined as a non ankc registered breeder. It has nothing to do with them providing the dog's pedigree paperwork. A registered breeder who fails to provide a pedigree with an entire dog is just a stupid and unethical registered breeder. Cool thanks for your reply I dont know much abt the registration to diff councils ect. But what if your a member of the CCC and you have a permit from you local council, reg with your breed club ect but not reg with the ankc? Are you still considered unethical? Sorry just curious, there seems to be so many different organisations breeders can register with these days. And at the end of the day even though these responsible breeders do all the necessary health checks ect things can sometimes still go wrong with a pup i guess. I am always wary of a breeder who says their pups will never have health problems. I have always been curious to know on average which fair better in the long run, a heinz variety or a purebreed dog? There is nothing wrong with either, i love all dogs but it would be very interesting to see stats on health probs of mutts ect vs purebreeds. Just out of pure curiosity lol You are right anyone can be registered with any number of bodies and call themselves registered - so its about who they are registered with and what criteria they needed in order to become registered and stay registered with those they are registered with but if you are looking for a purebred dog its about whether the dogs pedigree or birth certificate is registered with an organisation which is keeping stud records as this is evidence the dog has been bred using parents which are of a particular breed. Lots of people make lots of assumptions about what one grou can and cant do or what they have to do according to their codes of conduct which is not true .lots of people make assumptions about how to best tell a reputable breeder in one group from a non reputable breeder in the same group which is what we are seeing here - most of which is based on things which dont really have much basis in fact. Edited October 20, 2011 by Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisovar Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I recently came across a dodgy backyard breeder selling Akita pups in Loganlea. He was registered breeder online with DOL yet his pups were being advertised on sites like trading post, gumtree et which I thought was odd. Just to let you know ethical breeders do also advertise on the sites you quoted. I know because I am one of them. :D Exactly it is not WHERE a Breeder advertises it is how they raise their pups and how they choose the puppy buyers for their pups that counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allerzeit Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 But what if your a member of the CCC and you have a permit from you local council, reg with your breed club ect but not reg with the ankc? If a breeder is a member of their state CCC (ie Dogs QLD, Dogs Vic, Dogs NSW, Dogs SA, Dogs West, Dogs Tasmania, Dogs NT, Dogs ACT) then they automatically ARE "registered" with the ANKC. You actually don't register with the ANKC at all, breeders are members of their state CCC and the state CCC is an affiliate of the ANKC. And I agree with other comments- be careful about assuming anything about breeders based on where they advertise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I recently came across a dodgy backyard breeder selling Akita pups in Loganlea. He was registered breeder online with DOL yet his pups were being advertised on sites like trading post, gumtree et which I thought was odd. Just to let you know ethical breeders do also advertise on the sites you quoted. I know because I am one of them. :D I wish all registered breeders would advertise on these sites, Then the general public would know that there is more choice than a BYB or puppy farm or pet shop. How are they going to find out about registered breeders if they don't advertise ? Selling without papers is not supposed to happen but not worth losing sleep over. There are worse things to look out for like bad living conditions/environment for the puppies & parents, lack of relevant health tests, ignorance of the breed & no support or after care offered etc. Buying a puppy with a piece of paper that is the pedigree is the easy part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fox Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 So what do ppl define as a byb dog? Is it just a dog that comes without reg papers? Or is it more the conditions they are raised in ect? Unless you are going to show the dog i dont think it is a crime to not want their papers. Unless breeding or showing they are really not useful for anything lol But i guess thats just me. My boy had papers that the breeder offered my dad when he got him for me but he didnt bother taking them Or trialling, or understanding your dogs genetic make-up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Or wanting to know their lineage for obtaining more good dogs from the same ancestry. Pedigrees have lots more purposes than just allowing you to show, I am often referring to my dogs papers for various reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toy*dog Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 (edited) Troy is good but sometimes one will slip past and that is where we come in, a quick email and he is onto it Brilliant!! I have written proof from another breeder also that confirmed my suspiscions on this breeder too, so that should back me up, along with my report of all other info the breeder gave me.. I am VERY blessed now, I have located an extremely reputable breeder and have a pup secured that I know is perfect and proper papers etc... Seriously, when I contacted the breeder who supplied this alleged "backyard" breeder - the breeder of the original sire & dam told me this person IS a backyarder!! how scary... I have been so upset about this .... I am writing now - with all info I know - this person HAS to be stopped!! what troy normally does is check to see if the person is registered with ANKC or the state bodies, if they are not they are removed. but it is unclear ??? in your post if they are breeding crosses and selling them as pures or if they are unregistered? taking the word of other people doesn't really help and going from person to person, what someone needs to do is check to see if the breeder is reg with the ANKC and state body. we had that with our breed club a few months back, everyone was going around saying one breeder was not registered with ANKC and was on DOL but upon checking they were indeed ANKC reg. so people can gossip incorrect information and then spread it everywhere when none of it is true in the first place. one person had a big problem with the breeder in question as they had from what i could make out, put false pedigrees of dogs they never had and claimed the dogs were their own dogs or in their own dogs bloodlines. Edited October 20, 2011 by toy*dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toy*dog Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Or wanting to know their lineage for obtaining more good dogs from the same ancestry. Pedigrees have lots more purposes than just allowing you to show, I am often referring to my dogs papers for various reasons. some of my buyers sometimes dont' want the pedigree, but the majority do, we don't breed all that much so have never sold a show potential puppy or dog, it gives the buyer security i suppose in the fact that they are buying a genuine pedigree and not some backyard job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Just confirming I have received your email however I need more information apart from another breeder confirming to you that they are a 'backyard breeder'. So, what do you do or who could I talk to if I found out a "backyard" breeder is selling pups as pure breed? What is your definition of a backyard breeder? There are a lot of breeders out there that many would label a 'backyard breeder' that are ANKC registered and abide by the ANKC rules, only breed purebred dogs and register all dogs/pups with the ANKC. To sell puppies on DOL they need to be registered breeders and abiding by the rules and regs regarding registering puppies and issuing their papers etc But the person selling the pups on here isnt offering papers for the pups... simply "birth certificates" I need the proof that they are selling the pups unregistered. If that is the case, I do not want them advertising on this site and they will be removed. I recently came across a dodgy backyard breeder selling Akita pups in Loganlea. He was registered breeder online with DOL yet his pups were being advertised on sites like trading post, gumtree et which I thought was odd. Being new to the puppy buying game I rang up the number provided and this breeder was not only selling these pups at 6 weeks of age, but he could not tell me anything about the bitch or the dog (temperaments, breeding etc) The pups had only been weaned the night before (supposedly) and the bitch wasn't even at the property for me to view. The phone conversation got really awkward when I asked about limited registered papers, proof of vet checks etc and he rang me the next day to let me know the pups were all gone. (not true as my partner made contact shortly after he said he still had a male and female available) There were too many alarm bells for me and I did wonder how he managed to get away with advertising on DOL. Please email me at [email protected] with details of the breeder. If nobody tells us of issues, we have no idea there is a problem. Even if you do not have any proof of this that you can send, if we know of a potential issue, we can place the breeder in our suspect file so if we get any further complaints about wrongdoings (even without proof), there is a good chance that they are actually doing something wrong and we can remove them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I recently came across a dodgy backyard breeder selling Akita pups in Loganlea. He was registered breeder online with DOL yet his pups were being advertised on sites like trading post, gumtree et which I thought was odd. Just to let you know ethical breeders do also advertise on the sites you quoted. I know because I am one of them. :D Exactly it is not WHERE a Breeder advertises it is how they raise their pups and how they choose the puppy buyers for their pups that counts. x3 Most people have no idea where to find ethical registered breeders but will go to gumtree, trading post etc because that's where they buy other things. If good breeders don't advertise on these sites then well meaning people who don't quite grasp the difference between an ethical breeder and a registered breeder will get ripped off. I advertise where-ever I can to try and get the widest audience for my pups - it's all in the checking that goes on afterwards that counts. Unfortunately the vast majority of pups in my breed advertised on THIS site are dodgy BYBer's pumping out sub standard rubbish for huge money, so that's no recommendation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I recently came across a dodgy backyard breeder selling Akita pups in Loganlea. He was registered breeder online with DOL yet his pups were being advertised on sites like trading post, gumtree et which I thought was odd. Just to let you know ethical breeders do also advertise on the sites you quoted. I know because I am one of them. :D Exactly it is not WHERE a Breeder advertises it is how they raise their pups and how they choose the puppy buyers for their pups that counts. x3 Most people have no idea where to find ethical registered breeders but will go to gumtree, trading post etc because that's where they buy other things. If good breeders don't advertise on these sites then well meaning people who don't quite grasp the difference between an ethical breeder and a registered breeder will get ripped off. I advertise where-ever I can to try and get the widest audience for my pups - it's all in the checking that goes on afterwards that counts. Unfortunately the vast majority of pups in my breed advertised on THIS site are dodgy BYBer's pumping out sub standard rubbish for huge money, so that's no recommendation! x 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 (edited) Most people have no idea where to find ethical registered breeders but will go to gumtree, trading post etc because that's where they buy other things. If good breeders don't advertise on these sites then well meaning people who don't quite grasp the difference between an ethical breeder and a registered breeder will get ripped off. I advertise where-ever I can to try and get the widest audience for my pups - it's all in the checking that goes on afterwards that counts. Sandra, I agree with you that most people have no idea where to find ethical registered breeders. They don't know the difference between 'breeder' and 'registered breeder'. And many who know that a 'registered breeder' has something to do with 'showing dogs', then mistakenly think they will only sell their dogs to other show people & not as pets. So I'd support your belief that it's a good thing to get links to ethical registered breeders out in places where people generally look for pets. It's an excellent opportunity to explain to people who then make enquiries, what are the ethical guidelines that registered breeders follow. And why that has benefits all round.....the welfare of the dogs, the best interests of adopters and the satisfaction of good breeders who've developed their breed well.....& screen for the best match of a good home. I'd also like to see more PR by breed clubs as that's another excellent route for prospective pet buyers. Many breed clubs have a 'Puppy' (Mature Dogs, too) officer. In the meantime, I've found the Dogzonine Breed Community Pages great for directing puppy/mature dog buyers to....for my breed of choice. Many happy customers! Why not advertise this service in places where pet buyers go, too? Edited October 21, 2011 by mita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lushos Posted October 21, 2011 Author Share Posted October 21, 2011 Just confirming I have received your email however I need more information apart from another breeder confirming to you that they are a 'backyard breeder'. So, what do you do or who could I talk to if I found out a "backyard" breeder is selling pups as pure breed? What is your definition of a backyard breeder? There are a lot of breeders out there that many would label a 'backyard breeder' that are ANKC registered and abide by the ANKC rules, only breed purebred dogs and register all dogs/pups with the ANKC. [ Please email me at [email protected] with details of the breeder. If nobody tells us of issues, we have no idea there is a problem. Even if you do not have any proof of this that you can send, if we know of a potential issue, we can place the breeder in our suspect file so if we get any further complaints about wrongdoings (even without proof), there is a good chance that they are actually doing something wrong and we can remove them. OK - the conditions the pup were in at 2 weeks old was appauling ... they were lying on tiles with NO BLANKETS , towels or any kind of bedding nearby.. The female dog has had 3 litters already this year - and a fourth is planned for late december... how can THAT be good for an adult dog to have so many pups in one year? The reason I found this out - was dates of pups born on the "breeders" website (which has all been removed now - but I have been watching the website for around 6 months now... The reason I know thi is becasue the breeder has only 2 dogs on premisis and could not go into much detail of the parentage other than where the 2 dogs that I saw were there the original breeder and who it was - which is how I got to finding out about the unethical breeding going on there.. Do you really think that one breeder who sells 2 dogs to another PERSON (one male, one female) and then having that PERSON who purchased from the ethical breeder break a de sexing contract with the original breeder is OK? This so called breeder broke the agreement with the original breeder to breed dogs clearly.. the original breeder did not consent to the dogs being used to breed. So howis that "gossip & assumtion" this breeder avoided all my questions re: papers and registration and her qualifications... I was so gutted when I left that place - I was shaking and crying... it was appauling conditions and the adult dogs were not in good condition. I had no idea about registered councils or any of that - which is why I came here - for help.. I can only report what I saw... and I was disgusted by what I did see... as far as papers go - YES it is important to me, when I am paying nearly $2000 for a pup that I have a pup that is of the best health, raised in the correct conditions and well looked after - what I saw was no where near even me - as a simple person who has not much of an idea about breeding and so on could see things were not as they should be there... I came here for help and ideas and I thank you for giving me advice of the correct authorities to report to - I can now investigate further and report the person correctly - through the right channels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirty Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I don't think it is physically possible for a dog to have four litters in 12 months. The vast majority of bitches only come into season once every six months? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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