Mollyrulz Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I have a Rescue girl (small mixed breed) and she has got increasing worse during heavy rain and/or thunderstorms. HSe scratcehs until she bleeds and she will scratch/bite at anything - including my door frame when I lock her in the room under the stairs. She also destroyed ie shredded a THICK cardboard box in that room druing the last storm we had last week. There is always a lot of blood on the floor, dorr etc where she has scratched. This includes the tiles IF I put her on a lead and attach her to my exercise bike in the middle of the lounge (thinking she won't have anything to scratch so cannot hurt herself. I have tried - putting her in a dark room where she can feel "safe", holding her and putting her in my bed under the covers, out her in her crate with a big blanket over the crate and sitting with her and holding onto her with her lead on. None has worked!! Took her to the Vet and she prescribed Reconcile (Doggie Prozac).... very expensive at $88 per month for 30 tablets which has to be taken daily for the rest of her life. IF we want to stop, she must be weaned off it. I would like to know whether othres have used it AND whether it helps ie keeps her calmer and not "anxious" when storms occur - does it make them "crazy" after she stops taking it?? I would not like her to lose her quality of life once she is on this drug AND it is VERY COSTLY if taken monthly.. Any advice would be appreciated...sorry for long posts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Have you seen a behaviourist about her problems or just medicating? Medication without behavioural work wont help the dog long term. I think speak to a good veterinary behaviourist first and then go from there. If the dog is that bad it hurts itself every time it's stressed and cannot be safely managed then you have to look if there is quality of life for this animal in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I think speak to a good veterinary behaviourist first and then go from there. If the dog is that bad it hurts itself every time it's stressed and cannot be safely managed then you have to look if there is quality of life for this animal in general. Agree with this .. poor little dog.Get yourself an assessment from someone recommended, and work from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lavendergirl Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Is the behaviour only storm related? I would have another talk to the vet about the type of medication she is on. If the behaviour only manifests when a storm is occurring then I would wonder whether the tranquilizer type medication would be more suitable - that is only used when storms are expected rather than taking a medication every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mollyrulz Posted October 20, 2011 Author Share Posted October 20, 2011 It IS mainly storm related and heavy rain - showers are ok. My vet is also a Behaviourist vet and Molly is generally "hyper-active" and when she came to me, has been attacked by a Beagle and therefore very "anxious" when she sees another dog UNLESS they are dogs she has socilaised with - we walk with a few dogs and she is fine with them BUT any new dogs are not ok ....but haveing said that, she is fine at the dog park. I did ask the Vet about a "knock-out" pill I could give her when a storm happens but she seems to think that as she is hurting herslef a lot, she shd be on Prozac! I have got the drug BUT have not started it as I want others opinion on this ....don't want to "wean" her off so to sepak and I understand about her "quality of life" and it doesn't help we live in Brisbane and we are now going into our "storm season".. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 So, what behavioural modification/training was suggested to help with the problems Molly has ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paganman Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I took mt staffordx girl to a vet/behaviorist for dog aggression and all she did is was prescribe Clomicalm which was expensive and didnt make any difference.I learnt a lot from a seminar I went to by Steve Courtney of K9 Force and then I had a private consultation which helped no end coz he told me things to do to modify the behavior.I reckon giving your dog a sedative when theres going to be a storms a better idea no way would I put a dog on Prozac.Theres a good behaviorist in Brisbane called Jane Harper shes not a vet but ive seen good things about her all the time on dogz perhaps she can help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Reconcile is used a lot in separation anxiety, but can also be used any time a dog needs to learn to change a behaviour that is deeply ingrained, usually because it is linked to an emotional response. The Reconcile just makes it easier for them to break out of their habits. Sometimes behavioural problems can be a result of chemical imbalances with the dog. Reconcile helps where there is not enough serotonin doing its serotonin thing, which is kind of complicated but can be seen particularly in compulsive behaviour. Vets tend to prescribe Clomicalm because it is very safe, so it's a good place to start. The side-effects are almost non-existent. Reconcile is also used to treat sudden onset and very intense fear or panic where the trigger happens often or is unpredictable, making it difficult to treat with faster-acting tranquillisers. Even just experiencing thunderstorms where she doesn't feel panicked is a form of behaviour modification training. Whether it sticks or not, though, is anyone's guess. More information on Reconcile here: http://www.drugs.com/vet/reconcile.html If it was me, I would just give it a go. Sounds like her quality of life coming into storm season is unlikely to get much worse. If you decide it's not worth it, you don't have to do a long tapering off, because the drug has a long half-life in the body, so the effects kind of taper off on their own once you stop giving it to her anyway. Be aware of the possible side-effects. It's a good idea to keep a record of relevant behaviour now before she starts the drug and then record it as she goes onto it and that way you'll be able to see if there is an effect or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lavendergirl Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 It IS mainly storm related and heavy rain - showers are ok. My vet is also a Behaviourist vet and Molly is generally "hyper-active" and when she came to me, has been attacked by a Beagle and therefore very "anxious" when she sees another dog UNLESS they are dogs she has socilaised with - we walk with a few dogs and she is fine with them BUT any new dogs are not ok ....but haveing said that, she is fine at the dog park. I did ask the Vet about a "knock-out" pill I could give her when a storm happens but she seems to think that as she is hurting herslef a lot, she shd be on Prozac! I have got the drug BUT have not started it as I want others opinion on this ....don't want to "wean" her off so to sepak and I understand about her "quality of life" and it doesn't help we live in Brisbane and we are now going into our "storm season".. Sometimes they prescribe a tranquilizer for use in conjunction with an antidepressant as the antidepressant can take some weeks to kick in and the dog needs relief urgently. Did the vet say it would take a while to take effect? I would definitely give her medication as it sounds like her situation is severe. She might not necessarily be on it for life but she probably can't learn any behaviour modification while so stressed poor girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mollyrulz Posted October 20, 2011 Author Share Posted October 20, 2011 I did some "training" with k-9 (not Steve Courtney) and he gave me a CD to play and it didn't affect her b'cos there was no atmospheric change! BUT when there is heavy rain (no sounds of thunder), she still panics and is beside herself... I will have another chat with the Vet and my main aim is to help her get over the anxiousness and retain quality of life (like a human) ... Has someone tried Reconcile to treat for 6 mths (example) and then stopped?... It's just that at $88/mth for the rest of her life is a bit extreme considering she is only 5 1/2 years old. Any suggestions ie try for 6 mths and see how we go?? After I stop, does it get worse. Corvus - saw the side effects. i guess with every drug, there are bound to be side-effects :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 the factor should not be cost but quality of life. If you dont like what your vet has told you find someone else to give you an opinion. You use medications like that as they are needed and under supervision, if the dog needs it for X amount of time and it's working then you keep using it. You never just 'stop' medications like that you wean the dog down slowly so it's brain can cope with the change in biochemistry that is occuring now the dosages are changing. Same as in humans. A situation like this is not something people can answer over the internet. A serious problem where the dog is causing itself such extreme physical harm needs a professional, if that doesnt help or you dont want to shoulder the costs then do the dog a favour and PTS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lavendergirl Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Just another thought, some folks have great success with the Thundershirt for storm phobias though I don't think it works so well for other problems. You could try a firm fitting t-shirt and see if that helps any before buying a Thundershirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonny_beagle Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 There are books like scardey dog or the cautious canine that might help you with ideas about how to try to start to manage her behaviour, in combination with medication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 yes. with this poor girl having problems both from being around some other dogs, and noise/storms , there is a real need for professional assessment/ behaviour modification Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mollyrulz Posted October 21, 2011 Author Share Posted October 21, 2011 THANKS for all your advice/views... to PTS is not the solution (re Nekhbet)as I rescued her from a shelter 4 years ago to give her a chance at life. I have started Reconcile today and will monitor and will try to contact Jane Harper to see if she can help with re-training her. I also have a pure-bred Lab (almost 3 yrs old) which I got as a puppy and he has been trained to not fear storms as we played with him and offered him treats during storms etc so he is well balanced...unfortunately with the rescue girl, she came to me when she was almost 1 1/2 years old and she was not as terrified of storms in those days as she is now :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I did not say it was a solution, you did not read my entire post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lavendergirl Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Well good luck and I hope something can be done to help her. It would be interesting to have an update as to how she gets on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winterpaws Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 One of my dogs has a weird issue in spring / summer where he gets really upset about being placed outside. We;re not sure what started it as it only started last year when he was about 7 years of age. It is definetely seasonal though and related to warmer weather. After trying lots of behavioural and medical stuff we ended up putting him on clomicalm last summer as we were quite fearful that he would end up hurting (or killing) himself due to his behaviour when outside. He was weaned off the clomicalm in autumn when the weather changed and all winter we have had no issues with him. A few weeks back we noticed that he was starting to show signs of stress on the few hot days we had so we have got him back on meds. The vet has recommended Reconcile this time as the long terms affects are apparently not as bad as clomicalm. We did notice some changes in his behaviour. He was shaking a lot and had lost his appetite. He also started to show a real interest in our cats for the first time in his life! On the vets advice we are now treating him with a tablet every other day and the side effects seem to have disappeared. I have to say that so far neither the clomicalm or reconcile have completely stopped the behaviour - they have just lessened the severity of his reactions. I won;t be keeping him on reconcile over winter. If the vet agrees he will come off it and then go back on if he needs it next summer. But with storm behaviour I guess you would definitely need to stay on it as it is not a defined season like with us. Have you tried a thunder shirt as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lavendergirl Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Hi Mollyrulz If you are in Brisbane I notice that the RSPCA Superstore in Springwood has the Thundershirt at the moment. It is $60. They are getting good feedback from customers who have storm phobic dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mags Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Goodluck with dealing with her anxiety, sometimes medication is needed to relieve the anxiety enough for behaviour modification to be able to be effective. Hope that is the case with your girl and you are able to get on topof her issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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