Latent Learning, Retention And Insights

[corvus]

Erik has always been one for showing a big improvement in a behaviour he's been having trouble with after a break of a few hours at least. I don't know much about latent learning, but I understand that breaks help us consolidate what we've learnt, and sleep is important for reorganising new memories. The strangest thing has been happening with him lately. Last week he spontaneously grabbed a ball he found in the park and put it in my hand. I started teaching him a retrieve months ago. I did lots of practise getting him to pick an object up out of my hand and I had started shaping him to pick something up off the ground and put it in my hand, but it needed a lot more work. So perhaps you can imagine my surprise when I haven't done any work on it at all for over a month and suddenly Erik is picking up balls and putting them in my hand. I've tried it a few more times and he's especially good when I toss the ball to him and he catches it on the full, which is what we were playing around with last time I did some work on it. He's just magically improved a behaviour well beyond what I have taught him??

Then yesterday I started doing some work on a knee vault I had been teaching him and straight off the bat he was doing it better than he's ever managed before. It's been about a week since I last visited that behaviour with him. It's like he's finally got the whole point of knee vaults. I think with both this one and the retrieve I finished our last training session just when he had done one or two that were much closer to what I wanted. Maybe he's just retained the last version he got rewarded for? I have no idea.

And then he did something else intriguing yesterday. I sent him to a little stand that people sit in that resembles wide stairs. I then cued him to back up the stairs, which he can do, but he wouldn't. I tried a few times and he wouldn't move. So I called him (and Kivi) off the stand. Erik came down, paused, then turned around and hopped up again, turned himself around so he was facing me and straight, and when I cue him to walk backwards he did a textbook step up onto the stair behind with his back feet. It was exceptional. He backed up several, just about did a handstand in the process as he hunted for the stairs with his back feet, then came down and backed up again. What's with that? Did he know what I was cueing before and just wasn't set up properly to do it? He was quite deliberate about how he set himself up the second time. He was very straight and forward on the stair so he had enough room to lift his back feet. So weird.

Has anyone else experienced things like this? I don't really see it with Kivi. His tricks are much easier, so maybe that's why, but he just doesn't really do these big leaps in understanding that Erik seems to.

[Weasels]

I read an interview once with Jay Sisler, awesome trick trainer, where he said exactly the same thing - if his dogs weren't getting something he'd just leave it for a few weeks then when he came back to it they did much better. Of course he had exceptional dogs, but i've always applied it to my training and been surprised at how often it works

Eta- just in case anyone hasn't seen it :D

Edited October 19, 2011 by Weasels

[Pippi]

I read an interview once with Jay Sisler, awesome trick trainer, where he said exactly the same thing - if his dogs weren't getting something he'd just leave it for a few weeks then when he came back to it they did much better. Of course he had exceptional dogs, but i've always applied it to my training and been surprised at how often it works

Eta- just in case anyone hasn't seen it :D

That is just awesome - especially working 2-3 dogs at once. Thanks for posting, loved it.

[bedazzledx2]

Yesterday I took my kelpie pup, Zac, sheepdog training for the first time...for both of us! Interesting that the instructor not only talked about body language and rewards (in the form of allowing the dog back on the sheep as a reward) but also latent learning.

Have a go and let him see the sheep and a bit of a run at them...get a few turns in...that'll do and put him away to think about it. Get him out again and he has processed such a lot! Almost looked like he knew what to do! Third time I was told it will either be his best go or his worst...lets see... it was his best! Amazing!

I have always trained obedience this way... 5 minutes at a time and then put him away to have a think. It also means you don't put too much pressure on for too long. I remember starting to teach Brooklyn scent work as a youngster and he was just not getting it. It wasn't that important as we were only in Novice at that stage so I forgot about it for a couple of months. When I started again he knew pretty much exactly what to do.

[ness]

Yeah its amazing what they can put together after a break - I did that a little with Kenz when I was teaching her to weave. She had a few days of 2x2 weaving then an extended break of about a month before coming back and finishing the process.

We also experienced something similar recently when I decided to do a full Open obedience round with her when she has probably not touched the exercises in nearly 8 or so months. Especially not a retrieve over the jump or even a retrieve on the flat. She came out and never missed a beat .

[Weasels]

Glad you enjoyed the vid Pippi :D there is a part 2 on youtube too but this is the better of the two i think.

--

Bedazzled2 i''m so glad you enjoyed herding i find it great training because sheep are the highest reward for the kelps!

This was our experience when we started too - after about a month the dogs had a week off and when we went back it was like everything had just clicked. I'm still not entirely sure if it was latent learning or just them thinking "if i'm extra good we won't miss another training week!"

Do you train at Mandurah? It sounds like the same trainer but i thought herding training was on hold for this month...

Edited October 20, 2011 by Weasels

[bedazzledx2]

No this was with Simon Leeming in Mount Helena...only 10 minutes up the road from me...Mandurah is a cut lunch and a water bag!!!!

[Weasels]

No this was with Simon Leeming in Mount Helena...only 10 minutes up the road from me...Mandurah is a cut lunch and a water bag!!!!

ok that makes more sense - maybe i'll see you at a trial one day ;)

Eta: found the interview i mentioned in my post this morning, it was actually with his family - http://www.workingaussiesource.com/stockdoglibrary/scott_sisler_article.htm

Edited October 20, 2011 by Weasels

[corvus]

I have always trained obedience this way... 5 minutes at a time and then put him away to have a think. It also means you don't put too much pressure on for too long. I remember starting to teach Brooklyn scent work as a youngster and he was just not getting it. It wasn't that important as we were only in Novice at that stage so I forgot about it for a couple of months. When I started again he knew pretty much exactly what to do.

The training program for my PhD project is structured with 5 minutes on and 3 minutes off for half an hour. They totally need those breaks, particularly because they are driving their own training sessions and if they don't get a break some of them take one anyway and then they forget to go back to it. I usually train in short stints like that as well. Sometimes they start to wander off when I dismiss them, then come back for more training. Even Kivi does this if I've been doing something physically challenging with him. I remember when I first taught him to balance on a log he kept slipping and wasn't very happy, so I let him have a break, but 10 seconds later he went back to the log on his own to try again.

I often marvel at how willing my dogs are to do stuff once they realise what it is I want them to do. It's not just willingness, but determination. It's not even really the treats. They get them, but sometimes it's like an afterthought and they seem surprised. They get quite focused and they find ways overcome obstacles to do the behaviour.