Leema Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I have heard, anecdotally, that desexing is not popular in some European countries (such as Scandinavian countries and Germany), and that it is in fact illegal in some countries. Could anyone provide me with any articles that examine this in more detail? I would be particularly interested in any articles that consider how this correlates with their shelter admissions and euthanasias. Thank-you in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzy82 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 (edited) Don't have any articles, but I'm originally from Norway where it's illegal to desex dogs unless there are medical reasons. However, the law is very old and these days most vets will desex if you just ask them to. I'm a member of a Norwegian dog forum though, and I have noticed a lot of resistance to desexing in there. Most people don't do it unless it's an older dog and there are medical issues. No one does it just because they're not gonna breed the dog. They also don't have a limited register, there is just one register where all purebreds dog go, and any dog can be bred. However, it's not really an issue. The great majority of dog owners are very responsible, they train their dogs, the dogs live inside (and thus can't jump the fence when it's in heat etc), if two dogs do accidentally mate, the two owners will usually make a written contract regarding the puppies, the owner of the male dog gets a certain amount of money per puppy. If someone's female dog gets out and mates with someone's male dog, the owner of the male dog will usually consider it a form of theft and demand that a contract be made. Breeding for profit is frowned upon, and most dog owners won't breed their dog just to make money or just because the dog is "lovely". Generally they will breed for temperament or working titles, or they have shown the dog etc. Also, pet stores can't sell puppies, so there are no puppy farms, so a lot fewer puppies are produced. So the whole attitude towards breeding is different. Edited October 19, 2011 by fuzzy82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 How very interesting fuzzy! I wonder why that culture of dog ownership and breeding has developed/endured. Have dogs never been sold in pet shops? Does that mean people need to deal with a breeder so they 1. Can't buy on impulse; 2. Get given more information about the requirements of the dog; 3. Have to demonstrate to the breeder that they are a suitable home for the dog etc etc so maybe dog ownership is seen more of a privilege and responsibility by people in general than by many people here in Aus. Just thinking out loud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leema Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 I found this article, but I'm still interested in any more insights. http://www.deathrowpets.net/PDFs/Update_5/A%20Different%20Perspective.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaJ Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I know desexing of dog for other reasons than medical was unlawful until 1989 in Sweden. In the last 5-10 years desexing for owner convenience has become more common. Breeders selling puppies with desexing contracts are virtually unheard of in Sweden, some breeders I have spoken to say "I would cry if the puppy owners told me they had desexed their new puppy at 6 mths of age." For a breeder it can be very valuable to have a mature age entire dog in a companion home. I know the lack of "routine" desexing has been very lucky for some breeds where they only very recently found the DNA marker for carriers of some diseases. Some of the older entire companiondogs showed clear through DNA and would likely be valuable for the breeding program. I found a lot of articles re' desexing of dogs in the Nordic countries when I googled it - not in English though :-). I didn't find any articles relating to desexing/euthanasia/shelter admission. Time for another google search... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dame Aussie Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Sorry I don't have any articles but my OH is from Europe and it's true that they don't desex their dogs as much as we do over here. They see it as being done more for the convenience of the owner rather than the health of the animal. It also seems over there that the ownership of dogs is taken more seriously, not as many idiots getting a dog 'cause it looks tough and just leaving it in the back yard. Dogs are inside a lot and in some places allowed in shops and on public transport, it's a much better attitude than we have here I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 While we're on the topic of dogs in Nordic countries, can someone explain to me what is meant by a "working dog" in Sweden? It has been a source of confusion for me for a while. The context is dogs that are bred for working dog competitions. Do they mean Schutzhund? This is different to field trials for gundogs, herding trials, and earthdog trials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatsofatsoman Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I know a lot of people from Europe and they frown upon it - a lot were dismayed when I was giving Boon the chop. They see it as having a designer dog - physically changing the way a natural dog should be purely for your own convenience. I tried explaining the advantages in preventing cancers and such but nope couldn't get past the ol' playing god card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacqui835 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Why do dogs in Europe live longer? Not an academic article but interesting none the less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I visited Europe a couple of times in the last 5 years and the dogs are incredibly well behaved. I didn't see any strays and no dog fights, no grumpy or anxious dogs and only two accidents - one of which was a puppy on a 8 hour train trip so that was bound to happen. The train steward dealt with it exactly as he would have an accident with a child. The owners were mortified on each occasion (different dogs and places). Most male dogs I saw had all their bits. Most females I saw - did not have any sign of having had puppies but I'm no expert. They seem to have a different attitude to urban dog ownership. And even in rural areas I visited - there didn't seem to be any farm dogs loose to chase cars or people. I guess dogs might be more precious to them. In Berlin - you got a strong sense of the months of nothing to eat and no way to keep warm after the war - that they don't take anything for granted now. And they don't want to go back there so they make an effort to remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leema Posted October 20, 2011 Author Share Posted October 20, 2011 Why do dogs in Europe live longer? Not an academic article but interesting none the less. I found this today, and it's interesting! Was going to post it here, but you beat me to it. Thank-you for the continued thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaJ Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 While we're on the topic of dogs in Nordic countries, can someone explain to me what is meant by a "working dog" in Sweden? It has been a source of confusion for me for a while. The context is dogs that are bred for working dog competitions. Do they mean Schutzhund? This is different to field trials for gundogs, herding trials, and earthdog trials. Corvus This link might be of interest. Google translate will give you some idea of what it is about. http://www.skk.se/prov-tavling/olika-prov-och-tavlingar/bruksprov/ Sorry I am time poor today so no time for any explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCresties Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Why do dogs in Europe live longer? Not an academic article but interesting none the less. In the UK neutering is very common, so I find the remark "Fogle told Ted it's very rare that a British Citizen brings him a dog to neuter" a bit odd? It's pretty standard for 'responsible' pet owners have their dogs and cats neutered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaJ Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 It's pretty standard for 'responsible' pet owners have their dogs and cats neutered. In the Nordic countries it is standard for 'responsible' dog owners to keep their dogs safe, contained and/or under control - desexed or entire ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCresties Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Ah sorry worded that wrong - I'm not saying at all if you leave your dog entire then you are an irresponsible owner I meant that in terms of people who actually care for their pets rather than the numbskulls who just have them as the latest fashion accessory. I have never heard of it frowned upon by vets or discouraged, and there are usually campaigns running to encourage neutering. The UK isn't as relaxed as the rest of Europe when it comes to dog ownership and places you can take them, but it isn't as restrictive as here. I lived in Oslo for a couple of years and was surprised how popular Dachshunds were, they were everywhere in the city Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 (edited) It has been mentioned somewhere but I can't remember where. A working dog in this instance was a Gundog and you could only have one if you were a registered hunter and held a current license. People couldn't just go out and think, I would like a Weimaraner and get one. Also in one of the European countries it is illegal to hunt rabbits. A group of people did with thier Whippets. Officials saw the footage, found the poeple invloved and seized the dogs and euthed them from memory. The rabbits are considered property of the King in that country. Edited October 20, 2011 by OSoSwift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaJ Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 It has been mentioned somewhere but I can't remember where. A working dog in this instance was a Gundog and you could only have one if you were a registered hunter and held a current license. People couldn't just go out and think, I would like a Weimaraner and get one. Also in one of the European countries it is illegal to hunt rabbits. A group of people did with thier Whippets. Officials saw the footage, found the poeple invloved and seized the dogs and euthed them from memory. The rabbits are considered property of the King in that country. The King should look after his rabbits a bit better then Do you remember what country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdogs Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I know someone from the Baltic region who has an entire male and entire female dog living together. He told me that they do breed and have had a number of litters, but that he never wanted puppies, especially because the majority of them had genetic defects. When I mentioned desexing to him he looked at me aghast. It seems that for him, the dogs having unhealthy puppies was just an unfortunate side-effect of having a male and female dog - desexing would never come into the equation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 While we're on the topic of dogs in Nordic countries, can someone explain to me what is meant by a "working dog" in Sweden? It has been a source of confusion for me for a while. The context is dogs that are bred for working dog competitions. Do they mean Schutzhund? This is different to field trials for gundogs, herding trials, and earthdog trials. Corvus This link might be of interest. Google translate will give you some idea of what it is about. http://www.skk.se/prov-tavling/olika-prov-och-tavlingar/bruksprov/ Sorry I am time poor today so no time for any explanation. Thank you! That answers my question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 It is difficult to generalise on this as Europe is not a country. It is many & they are vastly different is so many ways. Dog ownership in the scandanavian countries like Norway for example would be so different than in Spain or Portugal. Their whole culture & attitude is different. Then there is Russia, Poland, Hungary etc another culture that varies within itself. Germany. France, UK, all other cultures. They all have different laws, breeding rules, dog ownership rules & animal welfare rules. Some don't actually have any animal welfare rules or laws. I know in the UK pet dogs are often desexed. As an english person I do find the australian attitude towards dogs odd & fairly rigid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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