Why Is It So

[Jsk]

For me it is the cost and face judging.

I do not see the point of going to a local show when you can mark the catalogue before the show even starts. I would much prefer to travel a bit, even though your against the same dogs generally it seems the results are anyone's guess and not a fore drawn conclusion.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

Having just seen the latest NSW Gazette and ACT Schedules I've got another reason for you - recycling.

I don't think there is any excuse for contracting a judge that has judged 2 shows judging the same groups in the last 6 months in the same area. Even if they are a fantastic, honest, personable, professional judge.

I guess someone might say it's cheap, or they are known not to charge - I don't know. I do know that 5 or 6 extra entries would easily cover any basic $50 judging fee and a decent, interesting judge, usually from a bit further afield, covers other costs in my experience because you get more income through entries.

Do the same old, same old by contracting people in our own backyards over and over again and I can't understand why anyone would be surprised when entries are flat at best and awful at worst. Are committees just not asking judges what they've done in the last 12 months before offering appointments?

Please note, I've made no comment about face judging in this context, but if you have that as well, obviously it compounds the problem.

[conztruct]

Why don't we have less shows? Some months there are shows on every single weekend and people seem to go to lots of them and travel as well - maybe numbers are declining because people are getting "burned out".

I see less shows - actually make that less CH shows, something that may also address the issues raised in this and other threads of:

recycling judges

making the CH title more difficult to achieve (less shows means less points on offer requiring exhibitors to go to the CH qualifying shows = more competition, bigger show, BIS, BIG a pretty awesome achievement - this happens in England although the rules to qualify as a champion are different too - maybe we should look at these)

less exhausted club volunteers

I don't even pretend to have all the answers but maybe it's worth thinking about......people are leading busier and busier lives so maybe if there was a bit of prestige and value attached to some shows and they weren't so readily available it would result in better patronage.

[yarracully]

Having just seen the latest NSW Gazette and ACT Schedules I've got another reason for you - recycling.

I don't think there is any excuse for contracting a judge that has judged 2 shows judging the same groups in the last 6 months in the same area. Even if they are a fantastic, honest, personable, professional judge.

I guess someone might say it's cheap, or they are known not to charge - I don't know. I do know that 5 or 6 extra entries would easily cover any basic $50 judging fee and a decent, interesting judge, usually from a bit further afield, covers other costs in my experience because you get more income through entries.

Do the same old, same old by contracting people in our own backyards over and over again and I can't understand why anyone would be surprised when entries are flat at best and awful at worst. Are committees just not asking judges what they've done in the last 12 months before offering appointments?

Please note, I've made no comment about face judging in this context, but if you have that as well, obviously it compounds the problem.

We have found that there are quite a few judges that simply refuse to travel to country areas to judge. On the other side of the coin there are some judges that will travel and judge and do it for next to nothing. We have been lucky recently in that one judge paid their own travel costs and then donated their judging fee back to the club. Must add this is a small country club that struggles to break even at nearly every show it has

[yarracully]

Why don't we have less shows? Some months there are shows on every single weekend and people seem to go to lots of them and travel as well - maybe numbers are declining because people are getting "burned out".

I see less shows - actually make that less CH shows, something that may also address the issues raised in this and other threads of:

recycling judges

making the CH title more difficult to achieve (less shows means less points on offer requiring exhibitors to go to the CH qualifying shows = more competition, bigger show, BIS, BIG a pretty awesome achievement - this happens in England although the rules to qualify as a champion are different too - maybe we should look at these)

less exhausted club volunteers

I don't even pretend to have all the answers but maybe it's worth thinking about......people are leading busier and busier lives so maybe if there was a bit of prestige and value attached to some shows and they weren't so readily available it would result in better patronage.

Why have less shows. This would only cause more people to turn away from showing altogether. If there are less shows in your area would you honestly keep showing or would you look for something else to do as a hobby. We only have three shows a year here. At that rate it is hard to even justify doing these shows. In order to stay interested we travel away a bit for shows. If we didn't travel then I wouldn't even bother with showing at all. Local shows simply arent enough to justify. Now while that may not be the situation in other areas that is how it is here.

If people are feeling "burnt out" then they should simply give themselves a break. Why do we have to lose a few shows simply because some people cant be responsible and miss a few shows of their own accord.

I see no reason why a local show should be cancelled because some one else is burnt out. No one holds a gun to their head and forces them to enter every show thats on. They choose to enter the show. If they want a break they can have one, but not at the expense of others that want to show.

[conztruct]

Why don't we have less shows? Some months there are shows on every single weekend and people seem to go to lots of them and travel as well - maybe numbers are declining because people are getting "burned out".

I see less shows - actually make that less CH shows, something that may also address the issues raised in this and other threads of:

recycling judges

making the CH title more difficult to achieve (less shows means less points on offer requiring exhibitors to go to the CH qualifying shows = more competition, bigger show, BIS, BIG a pretty awesome achievement - this happens in England although the rules to qualify as a champion are different too - maybe we should look at these)

less exhausted club volunteers

I don't even pretend to have all the answers but maybe it's worth thinking about......people are leading busier and busier lives so maybe if there was a bit of prestige and value attached to some shows and they weren't so readily available it would result in better patronage.

Why have less shows. A number of reasons:

1) Less CH shows would mean that there was more prestige to a CH title than just travelling around to the shows people know they won't have competition at - if there were say 12 shows in a region a year where CH points were allocated anyone who was going for a CH would have to turn up to them and go for the challenges against greater competition (in most cases).

2) Less CH shows would mean less recycling from a limited judge pool.

3) If there were only say 12 shows where CH points could be obtained there would be more prestige attached to them and CH titles.

Another way I could ask the question is why do we have so many? Is it so everyone can get their average dogs titled giving them a sense of achievement which will make them continue showing? If so, it's not working because numbers are dropping. Is it so people don't have to incur travel expenses by having shows everywhere and anywhere? If so, why are entries falling?

As I said I don't pretend to be the expert it was just a suggestion.

This would only cause more people to turn away from showing altogether. Why?

If there are less shows in your area would you honestly keep showing or would you look for something else to do as a hobby. Well yes! I'm prepared to travel, I have competitive dogs that are capable of winning challenges so if there were a limited number of shows where CH points were available of course I'd go to them because I'm competing for the points. It would make me work harder with my dogs to have them in awesome condition and ready for these big events instead of just relying on the fact that if I go out to whoop whoop with 75 entries for their Ag show I'll be unlucky if I strike another of my breed.

We only have three shows a year here. At that rate it is hard to even justify doing these shows. Why is it difficult to justify doing shows in your local area?

In order to stay interested we travel away a bit for shows. If we didn't travel then I wouldn't even bother with showing at all. Local shows simply arent enough to justify. Now while that may not be the situation in other areas that is how it is here. Fair enough but having less shows doesn't mean that you don't have to travel to them. If you're saying the travelling is an enjoyable part of showing, there wouldn't be anything stopping you from travelling with your dogs just for a holiday rather than a show (?)

If people are feeling "burnt out" then they should simply give themselves a break. Why do we have to lose a few shows simply because some people cant be responsible and miss a few shows of their own accord. So even if numbers are falling at shows people should have a break - isn't that encouraging decreasing numbers at shows? In my area I know a lot of people who will put entries and travel to shows even when they don't really feel like because there are low entries and they want to support the small clubs here, in fact many almost consider it an obligation....if they didn't have the personally appointed obligation of attending a great number of shows, then it would be less tiresome

I see no reason why a local show should be cancelled because some one else is burnt out. No one holds a gun to their head and forces them to enter every show thats on. They choose to enter the show. If they want a break they can have one, but not at the expense of others that want to show.

I'm not saying that all local shows should be cancelled just the number of them reduced. I can only speak for my area in Qld which ranges from about Gympie I think up to around Mackay - the suggestion I'm proposing is that rather than all the clubs in the area hold a minimum of 3-4 champ shows a year they maybe be given 1 each which would add up to about 12-15. Of course there should still be an even distribution in different locations so nobody is disadvantaged.

As I said just a suggestion I came up with from observations and listening to discussions at shows. I really like the English system where there are limited shows at which CH points can be obtained although their CH system is different I think and you have to win a certain number of challenges - I'm not absolutely sure on that..... but it would mean that to get a CH title you would more than likely have to compete against the best to achieve thereby putting some prestige to it and qualifying it as an award earned by beating competition instead of driving far enough to avoid it.

[Gayle.]

I like the US system, where once a dog is titled it moves to a class and competes against other titled dogs and the non-titled dogs compete for points. That would mean more people would stick around with young dogs to get them titled, unlike now where there are some very big winning dogs who've been titled 50 times over, and continue to take out BOB week after week, and others in the breed simply stop showing because it's just not worth the time and cost. it's not like that in all breeds or in all states but in some it definitely is and the numbers in the breed classes diminish rapidly. I suspect the pointscore competitions are in part to blame for this.

[nabs]

Being a long term exhibitor I noticed the numbers drop off significantly when the tail docking ban was introduced. There are many many breeders of traditionally docked breeds that just gave up showing and breeding. Breeds like Dobes and Boxers were numerically very strong. Now you don't get a lot at shows.

Cost of owning dogs, showing, people these days being time poor all play a big part in lesser entries. Maybe if the controlling bodies did more to promote our sport our profile would be raised. Joe Public really has little idea of the dog world and how to get started in it.

Queensland has a strong contingency of junior handlers which is very good for the sport. We need to encourage the youngsters positively. Dog showing is a good family sport and a great day out.

[Gayle.]

And here we have yet another idea.

Last night I took 2 Maremma Sheepdogs to Hillsbrough grounds

as they *ostencibily* wanted dogs from group 5 to go over.

I was there over an hour and not 1 person had the deciency

to speak to me. Not 1 person had the deciency to let me know

what they would need or for that matter IF they still wished

to have Maremma or for that metter ANY dogs to go over.

With this kind of plain ignorance is it any wonder that new

people don't stay long?

I personally struggle to come up with any kind of a reason to

tell my puppy people they will gain any benifit at all from

being a member of their state body.

After 10 years I am still a newbie and I have been happy being

a newbie, BUT, people IF you want help, new members or just plain

folks to enter shows, then how about making an attempt at showing

good manners? A smile? Would it kill you?

I can promise you I can think of way more interesting things to

do with my dogs. and I just may do them instead of showing a lot

more often in future.

End Rant

Linda

That's really sad that you went to all that trouble and you weren't even acknowledged. I have heard of the same thing happening to someone else at KCC Park, she'd been told some trainee group 5 judges needed dogs to go over so she took along her Australian Shepherd and no one even looked at her dog let alone touched it. She ended up leaving in utter disgust.

I had a strange encounter with "officialdom" at a recent show. Very strange. I'm still a bit puzzled by it. I got my numbers in the stamped, self addressed envelope I'd included with the entry and on the back was a handwritten note "Don't use your kennel name as not all secretaries know who you are." Well, I don't expect anyone to know who I am and there wasn't a kennel name in sight as I'd addressed the envelope to me....my name.....and there was no kennel name on the entry as the dog was co-owned by his breeder and me and was entered under my name and hers. No kennel name there. I assumed it was written on the wrong envelope and wasn't meant for me.

I went to the office to collect my catalogue and handed the guy behind the window the envelope which had "Catalogue Paid" on it as well as the mystery note. He pointed out the mystery note to me and I told him I didn't use a kennel name, I used my name.

He checked the catalogue and saw the dog was entered in my name and another name (G. Knowles and L.Matthews). He called to a lady who I assume was the secretary and asked her about the mystery note. She said the dog was entered in a different name than the envelope was addressed to. I said no it wasn't. She said the name on the envelope was not one of the names on the entry. I said yes it was.

So the bloke pointed out that it was very confusing, the dog was entered under the names Knowles and Matthews and the envelope was addressed to Knowles. (They had actually crossed it out and written Knowles and Matthews on my envelope before posting it back). I said it wasn't confusing, how could it be confusing, I needed the number to come to me as I was showing the dog, not Matthews as she lives in South Australia. He said it was very confusing as it was different to the entry.

In the end, I did this :rolleyes: and this and walked away and thought "Faaaark! Who's confused now??? And these are the people who organise the shows I spend my hard earned money entering."

I wonder what they do when people show dogs they don't own. And expect the numbers to go to the person who'll be showing the dog, not the owner. That must really confuse them, or maybe they just don't bother with sending them anywhere.

OK, off topic, just a funny little story about confused people.

[Rebanne]

In the end, I did this :rolleyes: and this and walked away and thought "Faaaark! Who's confused now??? And these are the people who organise the shows I spend my hard earned money entering."

I wonder what they do when people show dogs they don't own. And expect the numbers to go to the person who'll be showing the dog, not the owner. That must really confuse them, or maybe they just don't bother with sending them anywhere.

OK, off topic, just a funny little story about confused people.

not a funny little story at all but a nasty little story. As a first time show secretary last year I can tell you it's not bloody easy sorting out owners/handlers/payers etc whent there may be 3 or more different names to be sorted out for one dog entry. There is the owner on the entry form, the envelope is addressed to someone else and the cheque is signed by yet another person. Multiple that by quite a few and it's a massive headache. In one case I had about 4 different breeds of dogs, all owned by different people, with the numbers going to someone else and the yes the cheque was signed by yet another person.

It might be your hard earned money but it's the volunteers helping out at ground level who pay in blood, sweat and tears. Instead of making fun of them maybe you could help out instead and then you'll find out just what a good job they do.

[Gayle.]

But the cheque, the entry form and the envelope were all in my name, the entry form had one other name on it and the envelope was in the same envelope as the entry form and the cheque. And there wasn't a kennel name in sight, not even the breeders.

It wasn't much of a stretch to understand that the self addressed envelope with the name Knowles on it was to be sent with the number for the dog entered under the name of Knowles, which was written on the entry form and also written on the cheque which was in the same envelope as the entry form and the self addressed envelope. All with the name Knowles on them.

Where was the kennel name referred to in the hand written note on the back of the envelope? Who's kennel name?

[rebelsquest]

Where was the kennel name referred to in the hand written note on the back of the envelope? Who's kennel name?

Did you ask that to the show secretary when you picked up your catalogue?

[Gayle.]

Where was the kennel name referred to in the hand written note on the back of the envelope? Who's kennel name?

Did you ask that to the show secretary when you picked up your catalogue?

The guy handing out the catalogues didn't know when I asked him and the lady he asked just snapped that the dog was entered in a different name than the one on the envelope. Which he wasn't. Same name. And she didn't answer the question about the kennel name which started all the confusion in the first place so I'm still none the wiser as to who's kennel name they were referring to.

[Nekhbet]

personally, as an outsider who considered showing with her dogs, its the atmosphere. I have been a few times, you try and ask questions or just watch and there are so many sour faces. It feels like if you're not part of the 'in' crowd you're not welcome or encouraged. Such a shame really that so many seem to see it as a threat instead of something to encourage and more good dogs being perpetuated and shown publically.

[Rebanne]

personally, as an outsider who considered showing with her dogs, its the atmosphere. I have been a few times, you try and ask questions or just watch and there are so many sour faces. It feels like if you're not part of the 'in' crowd you're not welcome or encouraged. Such a shame really that so many seem to see it as a threat instead of something to encourage and more good dogs being perpetuated and shown publically.

just do it! I knew no one, knew nothing, my only advantage, if you could call it that, was I had trialled in obedience and agility, so had a very vague idea of what was going on. And it was very vague. I sat down with total strangers who were only too pleased to help me out. I told the steward I was new to all this, in fact told the stewards at my first few shows I was a newbie. Honestly the stewards and judges were all so nice and helpful. The people I talked to and sat next to were the same. I'm not part of any in crowd, but I have a good time, after 5 years, quite a few people recognise me and we nod and smile at each other, I have made friends and we all sit together, people will help me out if I need a hound holder or a handler. Even people I don't know. It's not that hard. I don't know why some people make out it's a big conspiracy against them, I've enjoyed it since day one. I'm quite happy to sit on my own with my dogs if no one else I know is there, I usually strike up a conversation with the nearby people, I am happy to read a book, whatever. It's my day out and I enjoy it. I don't rely on other people to make it fun for me, I do that myself.

[Alyosha]

We did the same Rebanne, just jumped in as newbies a few years ago. In any hobby there are those who take it very, very seriously. Then there are those who are having a great day out, catching up and meeting people and hanging out with their dogs.

People who are interested should stick with it for a little while. If everyone who got bucked off a horse never went back not many people would ride either!

[yarracully]

This would only cause more people to turn away from showing altogether. Why?

If there are less shows in your area would you honestly keep showing or would you look for something else to do as a hobby. Well yes! I'm prepared to travel, I have competitive dogs that are capable of winning challenges so if there were a limited number of shows where CH points were available of course I'd go to them because I'm competing for the points. It would make me work harder with my dogs to have them in awesome condition and ready for these big events instead of just relying on the fact that if I go out to whoop whoop with 75 entries for their Ag show I'll be unlucky if I strike another of my breed.And I too am prepared to travel. In fact with only three shows a year locally I don't have a lot of choice. Now while in some areas of this wide brown land there may be more shows more often that is not the case everywhere. we have just finished our last show for the year. Our next is in April. Cutting back the number of shows as you mentioned would mean those out this way would simply say its not worth doing any at all.

We only have three shows a year here. At that rate it is hard to even justify doing these shows. Why is it difficult to justify doing shows in your local area?I'm saying that if we cut back the number of shows I could not justify showing at all. In order to maintain interest in showing we need more shows in our area. If we cut from three back to only two I could not justify the effort required to continue showing. I would no doubt find another interest which I could enjoy regularly and then you add to the current trend of numbers dropping. No doubt there are others that are also on the edge of leaving the show scene and cutting back the chance to show adds to this trend

In order to stay interested we travel away a bit for shows. If we didn't travel then I wouldn't even bother with showing at all. Local shows simply arent enough to justify. Now while that may not be the situation in other areas that is how it is here. Fair enough but having less shows doesn't mean that you don't have to travel to them. If you're saying the travelling is an enjoyable part of showing, there wouldn't be anything stopping you from travelling with your dogs just for a holiday rather than a show (?) Ahh the luxury of a holiday. that would be nice. Reality check. Not everyone gets the chance to have holidays. As for the travelling if the number of shows were to be cut then there would be less to travel too and as likely as not further to travel. As an example the nearest non-local show in our state is 300 k's away. This club only holds one show a year. It is currently struggling. If it were to be decided that this show is one to be cut, the next nearest show in our state is 750k's away. I don't plan on driving that distance after a day at work on Friday and then again on Sunday Night to get back for work on Monday. Especially with the nocturnal wildlife we have it is too dangerous for humans and dogs alike. So again less shows means more would give away showing

If people are feeling "burnt out" then they should simply give themselves a break. Why do we have to lose a few shows simply because some people cant be responsible and miss a few shows of their own accord. So even if numbers are falling at shows people should have a break - isn't that encouraging decreasing numbers at shows? In my area I know a lot of people who will put entries and travel to shows even when they don't really feel like because there are low entries and they want to support the small clubs here, in fact many almost consider it an obligation....if they didn't have the personally appointed obligation of attending a great number of shows, then it would be less tiresome That is their choice as I said before who is holding a gun to their head? They choose to make it tiresome for themselves. But again why should others have to miss out or have shows cut because some people make these decisions

I see no reason why a local show should be cancelled because some one else is burnt out. No one holds a gun to their head and forces them to enter every show thats on. They choose to enter the show. If they want a break they can have one, but not at the expense of others that want to show.

I'm not saying that all local shows should be cancelled just the number of them reduced. I can only speak for my area in Qld which ranges from about Gympie I think up to around Mackay - the suggestion I'm proposing is that rather than all the clubs in the area hold a minimum of 3-4 champ shows a year they maybe be given 1 each which would add up to about 12-15. Of course there should still be an even distribution in different locations so nobody is disadvantaged.

As I said just a suggestion I came up with from observations and listening to discussions at shows. I really like the English system where there are limited shows at which CH points can be obtained although their CH system is different I think and you have to win a certain number of challenges - I'm not absolutely sure on that..... but it would mean that to get a CH title you would more than likely have to compete against the best to achieve thereby putting some prestige to it and qualifying it as an award earned by beating competition instead of driving far enough to avoid it.The biggest issue with using the english system here is that england is nowhere near as big as Australia. We have sheep and cattle stations bigger than most european countries. What we need is an Australian system.

Sorry but I just don't agree with your idea of cutting back the number of shows. At least not as it stands. Perhaps with some more thought but as you have already mentioned it I don't see it working in fact I only see it making the decline greater.

[conztruct]

This would only cause more people to turn away from showing altogether. Why?

If there are less shows in your area would you honestly keep showing or would you look for something else to do as a hobby. Well yes! I'm prepared to travel, I have competitive dogs that are capable of winning challenges so if there were a limited number of shows where CH points were available of course I'd go to them because I'm competing for the points. It would make me work harder with my dogs to have them in awesome condition and ready for these big events instead of just relying on the fact that if I go out to whoop whoop with 75 entries for their Ag show I'll be unlucky if I strike another of my breed.And I too am prepared to travel. In fact with only three shows a year locally I don't have a lot of choice. Now while in some areas of this wide brown land there may be more shows more often that is not the case everywhere. we have just finished our last show for the year. Our next is in April. Cutting back the number of shows as you mentioned would mean those out this way would simply say its not worth doing any at all.

We only have three shows a year here. At that rate it is hard to even justify doing these shows. Why is it difficult to justify doing shows in your local area?I'm saying that if we cut back the number of shows I could not justify showing at all. In order to maintain interest in showing we need more shows in our area. If we cut from three back to only two I could not justify the effort required to continue showing. I would no doubt find another interest which I could enjoy regularly and then you add to the current trend of numbers dropping. No doubt there are others that are also on the edge of leaving the show scene and cutting back the chance to show adds to this trend

In order to stay interested we travel away a bit for shows. If we didn't travel then I wouldn't even bother with showing at all. Local shows simply arent enough to justify. Now while that may not be the situation in other areas that is how it is here. Fair enough but having less shows doesn't mean that you don't have to travel to them. If you're saying the travelling is an enjoyable part of showing, there wouldn't be anything stopping you from travelling with your dogs just for a holiday rather than a show (?) Ahh the luxury of a holiday. that would be nice. Reality check. Not everyone gets the chance to have holidays. As for the travelling if the number of shows were to be cut then there would be less to travel too and as likely as not further to travel. As an example the nearest non-local show in our state is 300 k's away. This club only holds one show a year. It is currently struggling. If it were to be decided that this show is one to be cut, the next nearest show in our state is 750k's away. I don't plan on driving that distance after a day at work on Friday and then again on Sunday Night to get back for work on Monday. Especially with the nocturnal wildlife we have it is too dangerous for humans and dogs alike. So again less shows means more would give away showing

If people are feeling "burnt out" then they should simply give themselves a break. Why do we have to lose a few shows simply because some people cant be responsible and miss a few shows of their own accord. So even if numbers are falling at shows people should have a break - isn't that encouraging decreasing numbers at shows? In my area I know a lot of people who will put entries and travel to shows even when they don't really feel like because there are low entries and they want to support the small clubs here, in fact many almost consider it an obligation....if they didn't have the personally appointed obligation of attending a great number of shows, then it would be less tiresome That is their choice as I said before who is holding a gun to their head? They choose to make it tiresome for themselves. But again why should others have to miss out or have shows cut because some people make these decisions

I see no reason why a local show should be cancelled because some one else is burnt out. No one holds a gun to their head and forces them to enter every show thats on. They choose to enter the show. If they want a break they can have one, but not at the expense of others that want to show.

I'm not saying that all local shows should be cancelled just the number of them reduced. I can only speak for my area in Qld which ranges from about Gympie I think up to around Mackay - the suggestion I'm proposing is that rather than all the clubs in the area hold a minimum of 3-4 champ shows a year they maybe be given 1 each which would add up to about 12-15. Of course there should still be an even distribution in different locations so nobody is disadvantaged.

As I said just a suggestion I came up with from observations and listening to discussions at shows. I really like the English system where there are limited shows at which CH points can be obtained although their CH system is different I think and you have to win a certain number of challenges - I'm not absolutely sure on that..... but it would mean that to get a CH title you would more than likely have to compete against the best to achieve thereby putting some prestige to it and qualifying it as an award earned by beating competition instead of driving far enough to avoid it.The biggest issue with using the english system here is that england is nowhere near as big as Australia. We have sheep and cattle stations bigger than most european countries. What we need is an Australian system.

Sorry but I just don't agree with your idea of cutting back the number of shows. At least not as it stands. Perhaps with some more thought but as you have already mentioned it I don't see it working in fact I only see it making the decline greater.

I don't agree with you at all, but I guess we'll just agree to disagree.

Shows, especially in smaller and regional areas are already failing to attract sufficient numbers to make them financially viable which means that club members either have to chip in personally or if they're lucky enough secure some sponsorship (difficult) - those people who are burning themselves out are providing the extra entries after show secretaries literally beg people to enter because they are facing a massive loss (eg Caboolture show in this Show section seeking entries and it's in a metropolitan area where it's a 50k drive for Brisbane people - only 150 by the original advertised date).

Declining entries are here already with out system of a multitude of shows and at a point where it's really only the committed people showing anyway. Think of it this way - there are so many shows on throughout the year (yes my minimum travel out of my local area is mostly 300k minimum too), where CH points are available. If the number where the CH points were limited it would not only place more value on the CH title but would increase entries at these eligible shows. It's a juggling act - is it better to have 3 shows or one show with 3 times the entry? It depends on perspective - yours is that you'd rather have the 3 shows, the alternative is greater participation and less expense (time and money) having one show. Since the question was about the declining numbers at shows, the latter is the perspective I have taken.

Sorry but you're making an assumption that the decision you'd make in that situation is what everyone else would do. There are lots of people who don't show now because they don't see any value in the CH title because anyone can pretty much get one by going to shows all over if they have to - maybe a lot of those people would join the show scene again if there was a little prestige attached to it. That would be an assumption and not a fact, but every bit as valid as your assumption. Too much of something makes people complacent, reduce supply and it makes it desirable (for most anyway).

[Gayle.]

I was under the impression that each kennel club has to hold a certain amount of championship shows per year, to justify their existence.

[Gayle.]

personally, as an outsider who considered showing with her dogs, its the atmosphere. I have been a few times, you try and ask questions or just watch and there are so many sour faces. It feels like if you're not part of the 'in' crowd you're not welcome or encouraged. Such a shame really that so many seem to see it as a threat instead of something to encourage and more good dogs being perpetuated and shown publically.

It's a bit easier if you go with someone you know, who already knows the ropes. I agree it can be very intimidating for a newcomer, it's easy to say "Oh just ask" but when you don't know who to ask......they all appear to be so busy......or what exactly you're supposed to be asking, it's not quite so easy.

Not all people make you welcome either, I was lucky in my breed there were a few regulars who made sure I sat near them and they helped me groom my dog and made sure I knew what was going on and that I was in the right place at the right time. But there was one DOLer, who started showing her dog about the same time as me, in the same group, and we'd often see each other at shows. And every single time, she'd be sitting on her own, near the rest of the (large) group of people showing her breed and not once did anyone speak to her let alone offer to help her out, or include her in a conversation. She stopped showing her dog before he was a year old, but to her credit she gave it a red hot go, week after week, but it can't have been a fun day out for her.

Edited November 3, 2011 by GayleK