Why Is It So

[DogNerd]

There are other reasons as to why we're taking a break. It's not solely based on others behaviour. I can make the decision to keep showing these Summer months and just not be near those people. It could be hard if the people are in your breed, though.

The point is that it's happening and it's making new people not want to continue and in some cases even start showing. So it's affecting numbers isn't it...

[SkySoaringMagpie]

However, I do respect that not everyone finds poo flinging interesting.

PSML. It's interesting the first time, but after that poo is just poo, LOL.

I guess part of my point is that there are so many other things to do, even with the dogs, that it's very easy to move on to something more fun or more meaningful. Probably that does give the bullies and the fakers a lot of power as they can make it 'not fun' very quickly, there is very little consequence for bad behaviour in reality, and all the factors that others have mentioned which affect judging quality have already made it less than meaningful. The social time around the ring with friends is mostly what showing has going for it. That's is certainly something good, but I am not sure it's enough given all the other pressures. It has the feel of being a very old fashioned and somewhat eccentric sport, with noone really looking out for its future. Just mho.

I do agree with this, I sometimes think ANKC/the CCs need to set up an advisory committee made up of people who have no show pedigree themselves (ie, no parents or grandparents who show/ed) and who have been showing for less than 5 years. It's a culture that often has no idea how batty it really is. Harmlessly batty is fine, but it's also scarily batty sometimes and the longer people have been in it, the less they can see it. Which is tricky because the longer people have been in it, the more likely that is to be seen as a recommendation for a senior committee position that is supposed to be guiding the future of the sport.

I also agree with many of the points Nancy raises, especially the difficulty obtaining a main register dog free of a thousand conditions.

[kosmology]

I believe if a breeder thinks a potential purchaser of a pup is worthy of obtaining one of their pups on the main register, then they may agree to place it on the main regsiter. e.g. If the potential purchaser inquires about future matings and tells the breeder of their desire to show/breed; if the breeder trusts their credentials; if the potential purchaser asks to be put on a waiting list - well ahead of time!! That then shows the breeder the purchaser is genuine and dedicated, especially if they are prepared to wait months for a particular pup from their kennel.

Limited registering may then ensure against compulsive buying of puppies, and potential unscrupulous breeding practices.

I have always viewed limited regsitration as an opportunity for breeders to, as much as possible on their part, prevent unscrupulous/irresponsible breeding.

Any measure put in place to prevent any facet of irresponsible pet ownership gets a big from me. If someone really really wants to show dogs, they'll find a breeder willing to sell them a pup on the main register.

[Gayle.]

Limit register doesn't prevent unscrupulous breeding, if someone wants to breed with a limit register dog they can. They just can't register the puppies. I'd bet London to a brick that a good number of backyard breeders got their start with a limit register dog. All it really prevents is that particular dog being shown.

[kosmology]

Limit register doesn't prevent unscrupulous breeding, if someone wants to breed with a limit register dog they can. They just can't register the puppies. I'd bet London to a brick that a good number of backyard breeders got their start with a limit register dog. All it really prevents is that particular dog being shown.

Yes, I understand that. I own a Belgian Shepherd who was bred by a backyard breeder. I purchased her as a 10wk old pup from Belgian Shepherd Rescue Grafton NSW. I'm pretty sure her parents were registered (main or limited - who knows).

Anyway, I still reckon "If someone really really wants to show dogs, they'll find a breeder willing to sell them a pup on the main register".

Edited December 2, 2011 by kosmology

[Jetpoint GSP]

Yes but how many people who have an interest are put off? When I got my first - showing was no where near the top of my list. Have wanted to 'have a go' for ages but would never have said I was a diehard. You lose so many lovely people by not letting them in. Someone shouldn't have to really really want to, go through god knows how many breeders (some very rude to enquiries about main reg dogs if you haven't shown before), and be generally discouraged in order to have the option to have a go at showing. We should be encouraging people in - NOT making it almost impossible. People with bad intentions will always find a way to BYB, if you screen your buyers well, encourage them, EDUCATE them, and be approachable I think you'll find that a much better way to ensure your dogs don't end up in the wrong hands or accidentally in pup than putting everything on limited register.

[kosmology]

Yes but how many people who have an interest are put off? When I got my first - showing was no where near the top of my list. Have wanted to 'have a go' for ages but would never have said I was a diehard. You lose so many lovely people by not letting them in. Someone shouldn't have to really really want to, go through god knows how many breeders (some very rude to enquiries about main reg dogs if you haven't shown before), and be generally discouraged in order to have the option to have a go at showing. We should be encouraging people in - NOT making it almost impossible. People with bad intentions will always find a way to BYB, if you screen your buyers well, encourage them, EDUCATE them, and be approachable I think you'll find that a much better way to ensure your dogs don't end up in the wrong hands or accidentally in pup than putting everything on limited register.

Hey! Don't get me wrong! Yes, I too wonder how many people with a (real) interest are "put off".

I went through a lot of breeders, a couple of rude ones, even ones that never returned my call and are now stuck with pups they can't seem to get rid of. I assume they're on limited register.

I even had a backyard breeder trying to convince me to buy one of their pups.

But hey, I'm just one of the lucky ones I guess. It was a real blessing to acquire my pup, and I'm glad I wasn't "put off". I think it's called determination?

And you know what, if I couldn't find someone willing to sell me a pup in my chosen breed on the main register, I would've still got one on the limited register, and showing wouldn't have crossed my mind.

Interestingly, I had a Katydid GSP bitch on 'breeders terms' back in the day, didn't even think about showing back then, let alone breeding. She was sterilised at 6 months and was of course a lovely, gentle companion for 14 years. The breeder retained her very similar looking litter sister for showing, and I assume breeding.

[Ceilidh]

Just a different point of view for you all to think about/ comment on.

I have been trying to look at the big picture - not just conformation showing to see why the purebred dogworld is shrinking.

Looking at the ANKC statistics (all available on the ANKC website)

25 years ago in 1986 a total of 95,792 puppies were registered.

25 years later 2010 a total of 66,040 registered - this is a 32% reduction.

Therefore in my opinion this will flow on and effect show numbers.

In addition limited register was introduced in that time (and in my opinion has been largely abused since - as it was originally intended for puppies who do not meet the standard, or did not meet the standard well enough to breed) further reducing available purebreds.

Add that to things discussed here - i.e., face judging, return of favours, nastiness, fuel costs etc., and I suppose that explains it.

In my opinion we need to produce more purebred main register dogs and make them available to people without strings attached.

The ANKC has some statistics on their site which estimate ANKC registered puppies are about 20% of total puppies born each year. I personally believe from my research that it is more likely about 10% of all puppies being ANKC registered. So if you look at how many of these go on limited register you will see an ever decreasing amount of purebred registered dogs available for breeding.

We are turning people away and encouraging them into the "designer" mongrel dog market.

So how can we improve at shows to start - Obedience and Agility do seem to be going well and increasing in numbers.

Nothing can be done about fuel prices. But have you ever thought about what equipment you have for shows today compared to what you had 10-15-20-25 years ago?

Back in 1995 when we commenced showing Neapolitan Mastiffs we had a canopy on our existing 4wheel drive, an umbrella tent, two stakes, couple of towells, esky, water bowls for dogs. These days we have my vehicle purchased for ease of transporting dogs, a 6berth dual berth trailer with wardrobe (especially made to our specs), 3 different Gazebos including a 6x3m. Floor mats, 6 large size crates for shows - the list goes on.

Show entry fees - I know people complain about this, but compare the fees today with 10-15-20-25 years ago. The entry fees haven't even kept up with CPI - yet overall judging fees have increased (due to higher travel costs, accomodation), ribbons, sashes and stationary have all increased, as has groundhire, insurance etc.,

This is a large part of the reason why so many "ordinary" prizes occur.

I personally would be happy to receive only a Sash for a group or in show win and nothing else for shows with say under 500 entries. Larger shows might be able to consider cash instead of trophies?

Anyway just a few thoughts - would be delighted to hear opinions.