Why Is It So

[Wyntervale]

personally, as an outsider who considered showing with her dogs, its the atmosphere. I have been a few times, you try and ask questions or just watch and there are so many sour faces. It feels like if you're not part of the 'in' crowd you're not welcome or encouraged. Such a shame really that so many seem to see it as a threat instead of something to encourage and more good dogs being perpetuated and shown publically.

Awwww come to shows with me!!!!!! I'll be nice to you... until you start winning then I'll kick you in the shins and run away crying :p

In all seriousness though, if you want to show, come along to some with me and the fluffernutters... there will be fun and merriment involved (and perhaps a tipple or two).. that's what it's about for me, win or lose

[smacka]

I don't honestly think cost has all that much to do with it......people spending amazing amounts of money on completely stupid things, without batting an eyelid. If someone really wanted to show dogs, they'd find a way to afford it. Those here who've said cost is a factor are still showing......they might be showing less but they still find a way to afford the shows they do enter.

Don't you think statement that is just a little contradictory?......

When people speak of cost I think they are talking total cost. Not just entry cost.

Petrol being a biggie. Petrol being two- three times the price it was just ten years ago for .e.g.

Depending where one lives fuel/food/accommodation could severely reduce the amount of shows an individual enters this days.

Run a line through the 10,000+ members of Dogs NSW & the reduction in entries would be substantial.

25-30% p.a. maybe?

Couple that with disenchantment & an aging demographic & think you are getting close to the mark.

The Bill Spilstead complex might serve western Sydney o.k. but is a hike for everyone else.

1/2 a tank of fuel would add $30-$40 to the day. Which in turn could mean only one show that w/e where previous two days were the norm.

Edited November 6, 2011 by smacka

[SparkyTansy]

I once helped out a newbie and boy did she hate to lose. After a few shows she no longer sat with us as we were "competition" i guess. She also told non-showies at dog parks etc that she was winning best in shows etc. it was all very strange but she only lasted 5 or 6 shows. If she lost, she would stomp back to her area, she was awful to her dog, and she once angrily threw a chair and stormed off to the car. Some people are just not able to handle the losing aspect, and even people that are, need full understanding that they will not always win.

[OSoSwift]

I once helped out a newbie and boy did she hate to lose. After a few shows she no longer sat with us as we were "competition" i guess. She also told non-showies at dog parks etc that she was winning best in shows etc. it was all very strange but she only lasted 5 or 6 shows. If she lost, she would stomp back to her area, she was awful to her dog, and she once angrily threw a chair and stormed off to the car. Some people are just not able to handle the losing aspect, and even people that are, need full understanding that they will not always win.

My goodness what a brat!!! poor dog

[Gayle.]

Poor dog! I always praise my boy no matter what. Even if he's been a wrigglebutt in the ring, he gets a pat and a "good boy!" as we leave the ring.

I expect that bad losers at dog shows are bad losers everywhere. They are probably the same kids who'd tip the Monopoly board up cos someone else bought Park Lane.

As an aside, I once heard a judge ream out a top showie over the way he spoke to his dog in the ring.

[aussielover]

Most of the dog owners I know and talk to, consider showing to be antiquated and essentially a beauty pagent at best and a freak show at worst

One of my friends was quite into showing but stopped due to the bitchiness.

Media has a lot to do with public perception of dog shows, PDE did nothing to encourage people to buy and become interested in pedigree dogs.

Also there is nothing much you can do if your dog isn't already "good enough". You can't change their conformation. It is very disheartening to be told your dog is a poor example of the breed and to have all their faults pointed out to you.

Where as in dog sports people get encouraged to bring the best out in their dog, you can improve your dogs performance with hard work and dedication.

I have found the agility crowd to be quite supportive and encouraging, sure there is probably a bit of bitchiness but generally not about beginners and I don't think many peopple have been told their dogs are no good at all and they should give up (although cheeky suggetsions of getting a border collie are made :D )

Edited November 7, 2011 by aussielover

[benshiva]

Any sport can be bitchy, anything that involves passes or a winner can be bitchy.

Go past those people and find the ones who are not. I know some wonderful people in showing, obedience and agility. I know some I wouldn't waste my breathe on as well.

I agree!! Conformation is my thing for want of a better word. Agility is my husbands domain. We've both tried our hand at obedience and we've both spent a lot of time around the rings at all three disciplines. For those that think it doesn't exist outside the "show" world open your eyes. There are some VERY nasty people in all three disciplines. Find the good ones and stick with them. I must be so lucky because the people I hang with at shows are fanbloodytastic!!! We have a brilliant time at shows and we ALWAYS welcome questions from newbies. Just seek us out and start asking

[*Lolapalooza*]

I once helped out a newbie and boy did she hate to lose. After a few shows she no longer sat with us as we were "competition" i guess. She also told non-showies at dog parks etc that she was winning best in shows etc. it was all very strange but she only lasted 5 or 6 shows. If she lost, she would stomp back to her area, she was awful to her dog, and she once angrily threw a chair and stormed off to the car. Some people are just not able to handle the losing aspect, and even people that are, need full understanding that they will not always win.

Shudder

[smacka]

Most of the dog owners I know and talk to, consider showing to be antiquated and essentially a beauty pagent at best and a freak show at worst

One of my friends was quite into showing but stopped due to the bitchiness.

Media has a lot to do with public perception of dog shows, PDE did nothing to encourage people to buy and become interested in pedigree dogs.

Also there is nothing much you can do if your dog isn't already "good enough". You can't change their conformation. It is very disheartening to be told your dog is a poor example of the breed and to have all their faults pointed out to you.

Where as in dog sports people get encouraged to bring the best out in their dog, you can improve your dogs performance with hard work and dedication.

I have found the agility crowd to be quite supportive and encouraging, sure there is probably a bit of bitchiness but generally not about beginners and I don't think many peopple have been told their dogs are no good at all and they should give up (although cheeky suggetsions of getting a border collie are made :D )

[/quote

Obviously most people you talk to don't know what they are talking about.

Dog shows are essentially a exhibition of prime breeding stock, the exhibition of dedicated persons blood sweat & tears.

Freak show? That would funny if it wasn't so pathetic.

Typical of the ignorant though.

And being exceptional well bred doesn't preclude dogs from excelling in other doggie activities.

Well bred pure breeds dominate agility, obedience & fly ball.

The example you related of a newbie being pointed out all the failings of his/her ''show dog'' is rubbish, it wouldn't happen unless he/she requested an honest expert assessment.

If he/she didn't ask, he/she would have never known.

If your example truly wished to be involved in the exhibition of pure breed dogs he/she would have put in those same hard yards you speak of BEFORE he/she bought a dog & turned up a show expecting to win because some uninformed relo/friend said "he's a lovely dog, you should show him" Duh

What would you consider the outcome if said relo/friend had have said ''he's a really smart dog, you should enter him in an agility trial"?

Double Duh

Many, many people have had remarkable results with their ever first "show dog".

Why? How?

Most because they did their homework & put the time in before they bought their ''show dog''.

Some, just dumb luck.

Another fallacy purveyed by the uninformed is that ''show dogs'' are all pampered pooches, kept in cotton wool & only come out on show days, where the facts are most are your average, knock about, garden variety family pets.

Albeit, very well bred garden variety, knock about family pets.

Newbies will never learn anything from just attending one or two shows & sitting mute.

If they really want to show, & really want to know, ask questions. And if they listen & absorb good advice, i'll guarantee their second show dog is better than their first, conformation wise.

The one after that....onward & upward.

Always remembering.

You get what you pay for.

[Trisven13]

Smacka - when did you last talk to the "average joe" about dog showing. By "average joe" I mean someone down the pub, or at the milk bar or petrol station etc - just a normal person who has a pet dog, who loves their dog regardless of its pedigree or heritage.

I was at the Pub on Friday night talking to the locals about showing the next day at Holbrook Show. Firstly I had the "cool can I enter my dog" questions - then I explained how that worked. Then I had the "Bet you'll win cause you've got the rarest dog" from my "mates". Lastly I had the hecklers - first from the guy who has showed previously who is convinced that most dog people are a pack of wankers, based on his experiences showing at Sydney Royal years ago for his ex-wife (a pug breeder of 26 years) and lastly from the local country boys who've been to all the local shows and seen us all in our finery who said that "dog show people are soooo snobby, they never talk to anyone and if you dare go near the dogs they yell at you".

I've been showing for about 4 years now and I LOVE it but I honestly think many people don't speak to people outside of dog showing to fully recognise how it is perceived. We need to recognise, honestly, how negatively dog showing is perceived and be honest about how that can change without losing the integrity of the sport.

At the Melbourne Royal this year one of the young people working within the dog arena stopped at our little booth during the day and said that we were the friendliest people she'd met in the 10 days she'd been working there - . How the hell can that be??? All we did was smile, have our dogs on display and have information and the time to answer questions if someone asked. Yeah, sure, we were knackered at the end of the day (and there were 3 of us taking shifts) BUT we were there to both do well in the ring AND promote our breed. The number of people who commented on how nice it was to be invited to pat our dogs and talk to us about them was quite sad. Yes it helps that I have a breed that is notoriously happy to be with people but even if your breed isn't that happy to talk to strangers surely you can be "up" and chat to the people walking past for ONE day?????

[Gayle.]

At my work , more than one person thinks dog shows are about dogs doing tricks.

[Rottshowgirl]

At my work , more than one person thinks dog shows are about dogs doing tricks.

I get that too, some people think you run around with your dog looking pretty AND do obedience.

Nope, my dog's just the Zoolander of the dog world, judged for looks alone

[smacka]

Smacka - when did you last talk to the "average joe" about dog showing. By "average joe" I mean someone down the pub, or at the milk bar or petrol station etc - just a normal person who has a pet dog, who loves their dog regardless of its pedigree or heritage.

I was at the Pub on Friday night talking to the locals about showing the next day at Holbrook Show. Firstly I had the "cool can I enter my dog" questions - then I explained how that worked. Then I had the "Bet you'll win cause you've got the rarest dog" from my "mates". Lastly I had the hecklers - first from the guy who has showed previously who is convinced that most dog people are a pack of wankers, based on his experiences showing at Sydney Royal years ago for his ex-wife (a pug breeder of 26 years) and lastly from the local country boys who've been to all the local shows and seen us all in our finery who said that "dog show people are soooo snobby, they never talk to anyone and if you dare go near the dogs they yell at you".

I've been showing for about 4 years now and I LOVE it but I honestly think many people don't speak to people outside of dog showing to fully recognise how it is perceived. We need to recognise, honestly, how negatively dog showing is perceived and be honest about how that can change without losing the integrity of the sport.

At the Melbourne Royal this year one of the young people working within the dog arena stopped at our little booth during the day and said that we were the friendliest people she'd met in the 10 days she'd been working there - . How the hell can that be??? All we did was smile, have our dogs on display and have information and the time to answer questions if someone asked. Yeah, sure, we were knackered at the end of the day (and there were 3 of us taking shifts) BUT we were there to both do well in the ring AND promote our breed. The number of people who commented on how nice it was to be invited to pat our dogs and talk to us about them was quite sad. Yes it helps that I have a breed that is notoriously happy to be with people but even if your breed isn't that happy to talk to strangers surely you can be "up" and chat to the people walking past for ONE day?????

So you mustn't think my reply had any credibility? That's interesting.

You must agree with the antiquated, beauty pageant, freak show comments? That's interesting also.

Glad you enjoy the scene though. Which is really interesting, if the above is true.

Many decades of dedicated, ethical people have made it possible for you enjoy the benefits of their dedication.

I take exception to people who don't understand or respect that dedication by posting such trash talk in a Show forum at a pure breed site.

The ignorance of your average joe in the pub? It happens. Although I find more interest than ignorance.

Probably my breed though. Terriers do have a special appeal. ( & I'm not exactly a stranger to having a libation or six)

Men in beacon suits with hairdresser dogs certainly do draw some curious comments I must admit.

But hey,

Live & let live.

But why do they wear that stuff? Makes me cringe,just a little,I must admit.

Just my thoughts.

[Paptacular!]

At my work , more than one person thinks dog shows are about dogs doing tricks.

Yes, this, as well as 'do you dress them up?" :rolleyes:

[becks]

We are probably lucky in a way with having had Crufts on TV for so many years, people interested in dogs and just have pets (instead of performance in some way) still have a general idea of what showing is all about and recognise obedience and the dancing with dogs, agility etc are done as different sports.

Trisven13 does raise some valid points though about what the average dog owner thinks.

[Gayle.]

Smacka - when did you last talk to the "average joe" about dog showing. By "average joe" I mean someone down the pub, or at the milk bar or petrol station etc - just a normal person who has a pet dog, who loves their dog regardless of its pedigree or heritage.

I was at the Pub on Friday night talking to the locals about showing the next day at Holbrook Show. Firstly I had the "cool can I enter my dog" questions - then I explained how that worked. Then I had the "Bet you'll win cause you've got the rarest dog" from my "mates". Lastly I had the hecklers - first from the guy who has showed previously who is convinced that most dog people are a pack of wankers, based on his experiences showing at Sydney Royal years ago for his ex-wife (a pug breeder of 26 years) and lastly from the local country boys who've been to all the local shows and seen us all in our finery who said that "dog show people are soooo snobby, they never talk to anyone and if you dare go near the dogs they yell at you".

I've been showing for about 4 years now and I LOVE it but I honestly think many people don't speak to people outside of dog showing to fully recognise how it is perceived. We need to recognise, honestly, how negatively dog showing is perceived and be honest about how that can change without losing the integrity of the sport.

At the Melbourne Royal this year one of the young people working within the dog arena stopped at our little booth during the day and said that we were the friendliest people she'd met in the 10 days she'd been working there - . How the hell can that be??? All we did was smile, have our dogs on display and have information and the time to answer questions if someone asked. Yeah, sure, we were knackered at the end of the day (and there were 3 of us taking shifts) BUT we were there to both do well in the ring AND promote our breed. The number of people who commented on how nice it was to be invited to pat our dogs and talk to us about them was quite sad. Yes it helps that I have a breed that is notoriously happy to be with people but even if your breed isn't that happy to talk to strangers surely you can be "up" and chat to the people walking past for ONE day?????

So you mustn't think my reply had any credibility? That's interesting.

You must agree with the antiquated, beauty pageant, freak show comments? That's interesting also.

Glad you enjoy the scene though. Which is really interesting, if the above is true.

Many decades of dedicated, ethical people have made it possible for you enjoy the benefits of their dedication.

I take exception to people who don't understand or respect that dedication by posting such trash talk in a Show forum at a pure breed site.

The ignorance of your average joe in the pub? It happens. Although I find more interest than ignorance.

Probably my breed though. Terriers do have a special appeal. ( & I'm not exactly a stranger to having a libation or six)

Men in beacon suits with hairdresser dogs certainly do draw some curious comments I must admit.

But hey,

Live & let live.

But why do they wear that stuff? Makes me cringe,just a little,I must admit.

Just my thoughts.

Smacka, you seem to be very defensive about dog shows and how they are perceived by outsiders. Do you not think they have a negative image? There are enough people come on here.....visitors to dog shows, first time showies, people interested in showing their dog or buying a puppy to show.....who tell of unhappy experiences, rude people at shows etc that there comes a time when maybe you need to agree that there could be some credibility in their statements.

I doubt anyone goes to a dog show expecting people to be rude to them, or expecting it to be a confusing experience where it's impossible to figure out what's going on and no programs available to the public and no friendly face to ask. The first time I went, I was excited about going and seeing all the different breeds, but quite, quite puzzled when someone came up to me, stood staring at me for a long while then said bluntly "Never seen you here before, you don't look like you belong"....or something to that effect, then stalked off.

The second time I went, I was with a friend from interstate who was showing her dogs in Melbourne and when her bitch won the challenge, I was very taken aback when one of her competitors swore at her and told her in no uncertain terms what she thought of my friends beautiful dog.

I was there with my friend for the purpose of learning how dog shows worked before I jumped in with my own puppy and had a go. My friend said to me later "I wish you hadn't heard that."

The topic is about falling numbers at dog shows. Yes they are falling. Rapidly. At the rate of about 100 per annum in Victoria. Why? Who knows, but pretending everything is hunky dory in the happy land of dog shows and that all the dedication of people who went before us is now giving us a lovely, friendly place to play on weekends probably isn't going to help the number of entries increase.

Trisven doesn't post trash, by the way. Never has, as far as I know. She raises some very valid points too.

Edited November 7, 2011 by Gayle.

[Trisven13]

Smacka - when did you last talk to the "average joe" about dog showing. By "average joe" I mean someone down the pub, or at the milk bar or petrol station etc - just a normal person who has a pet dog, who loves their dog regardless of its pedigree or heritage.

I was at the Pub on Friday night talking to the locals about showing the next day at Holbrook Show. Firstly I had the "cool can I enter my dog" questions - then I explained how that worked. Then I had the "Bet you'll win cause you've got the rarest dog" from my "mates". Lastly I had the hecklers - first from the guy who has showed previously who is convinced that most dog people are a pack of wankers, based on his experiences showing at Sydney Royal years ago for his ex-wife (a pug breeder of 26 years) and lastly from the local country boys who've been to all the local shows and seen us all in our finery who said that "dog show people are soooo snobby, they never talk to anyone and if you dare go near the dogs they yell at you".

I've been showing for about 4 years now and I LOVE it but I honestly think many people don't speak to people outside of dog showing to fully recognise how it is perceived. We need to recognise, honestly, how negatively dog showing is perceived and be honest about how that can change without losing the integrity of the sport.

At the Melbourne Royal this year one of the young people working within the dog arena stopped at our little booth during the day and said that we were the friendliest people she'd met in the 10 days she'd been working there - . How the hell can that be??? All we did was smile, have our dogs on display and have information and the time to answer questions if someone asked. Yeah, sure, we were knackered at the end of the day (and there were 3 of us taking shifts) BUT we were there to both do well in the ring AND promote our breed. The number of people who commented on how nice it was to be invited to pat our dogs and talk to us about them was quite sad. Yes it helps that I have a breed that is notoriously happy to be with people but even if your breed isn't that happy to talk to strangers surely you can be "up" and chat to the people walking past for ONE day?????

So you mustn't think my reply had any credibility? That's interesting.

You must agree with the antiquated, beauty pageant, freak show comments? That's interesting also.

Glad you enjoy the scene though. Which is really interesting, if the above is true.

Many decades of dedicated, ethical people have made it possible for you enjoy the benefits of their dedication.

I take exception to people who don't understand or respect that dedication by posting such trash talk in a Show forum at a pure breed site.

The ignorance of your average joe in the pub? It happens. Although I find more interest than ignorance.

Probably my breed though. Terriers do have a special appeal. ( & I'm not exactly a stranger to having a libation or six)

Men in beacon suits with hairdresser dogs certainly do draw some curious comments I must admit.

But hey,

Live & let live.

But why do they wear that stuff? Makes me cringe,just a little,I must admit.

Just my thoughts.

OMG where did I SAY that it was an antiquated beauty pageant? If I thought it was a waste of time and a worthless pursuit I wouldn't engage in it would I? What I said, in response to why the numbers were falling, was that we need to look at how it is perceived by your average joe rather than being defensive about what we know it to be. Its no different to advertising a product or promoting a service within business. You need to know what the public want, what they think you provide and try to bridge the gap.

As for your bolded comment you obviously haven't read the many times I've talked in this very forum about the pleasure I and my dogs get from showing.

[smacka]

Gayle.

I make no apologies for defending my hobby against what I consider spurious & depreciating falsehoods.

Beauty pageants? freak shows?....come on! Such uninformed insults need to be challenged.

Or do you think that grin & bear it is the best strategy? Head in the sand & it will just go away?

Also me thinks you should actually read the posts in sequence & in their entirety to get your facts straight before commenting/attacking.

Never once have I condoned poor behaviour, nor did I accuse Trisven of trash talking.

Such miscomprehension & accusation are but a classic example of the misrepresentationism that is blighting the hobby in general. Which, unfortunately, is typical.

I also find your ''you don't belong here'' story very difficult to accept without a wrinkling my brow & raising my eyebrows. Very difficult.

Exhibitor V exhibitor animosity on display I can agree with. Personality conflicts & all that.

One sees or hears of such behaviour often. As one would at every other sport/pastime/hobby where humans gather for competition.

Bitching & whinging are not the sole domain of dog shows. Go to a kids footy game for a real education in A grade whinging & bitching.

But such an unprovoked assault on a visiting spectator quietly observing? I have never ever even heard of such a thing.

[smacka]

Deary, deary, deary.

Please read the posts in sequence, before commenting.

Is that to much to ask?

[Gayle.]

Wrinkle your brow and raise your eyeborows, both of them if you must, but it happened.

And I think you are the one with your head in the sand saying "no no no no no" denying there is amything wrong. Instead of blindly defendng what is a dying activity, how about admitting there are some parts that could bear changing and an image that's in desperate need of a polish and a positive spin?

For what it's worth, I spent many years involved in junior sport, firstly with a husband who was a junior football and cricket coach, then with my own four children playing and competing in football, cricket, indoor cricket, basketball and gymnastics. And never did I see or hear the nasty and childish behaviour I see and hear at dog shows. And not by the juniorr contingent either.