Why Is It So

[braeleighgirl]

I to am new to the dog show world too and having just competed in my first show last weekend. I must say I was encouraged by another breeder to give it ago and could not have done it without her help ie preparation and knowing what other stuff I needed.

But I can see where the intimidation comes in having spoken to several different breeders trying to even get a puppy to begin with the "cattiness" was already there that would have been enough to put me off if it was for the other friendly people. Mind you though it's not even the things said to you it's the stuff you hear about later.

And getting a particular dog on full register is another problem from one person who approached me at the show the comment was made that you needed to go interstate to get a dog on full register.

Also the costs in getting everything my OH's eyes still boggle when I mention more things that I need :D hehe

[Gayle.]

Having a scroll through this thread and you'd have to wonder why anyone would want to start showing anyway, and why people do it in the first place.

It's not true that all sports are like this......I've been competing in herding trials this year and it's so far from the dog show world that the only common denominator is the dogs. From my first day of training, I found it to be friendly and welcoming and there's no bitchiness in sight. No one cares about who bred who's dogs, or who's at what level......pedigree show dogs compete alongside registered mutts, on equal footing. Herding is something that's taken over some of the weekends I used to show, because the atmosphere at a herding trial, the togetherness of the competitors and the encouragement of the spectators makes you want to go back again.

[smacka]

Having a scroll through this thread and you'd have to wonder why anyone would want to start showing anyway, and why people do it in the first place.

It's not true that all sports are like this......I've been competing in herding trials this year and it's so far from the dog show world that the only common denominator is the dogs. From my first day of training, I found it to be friendly and welcoming and there's no bitchiness in sight. No one cares about who bred who's dogs, or who's at what level......pedigree show dogs compete alongside registered mutts, on equal footing. Herding is something that's taken over some of the weekends I used to show, because the atmosphere at a herding trial, the togetherness of the competitors and the encouragement of the spectators makes you want to go back again.

If ''In my opinion'' decided your herding results your comparison would be valid.

But it doesn't, so it's not.

[Gayle.]

Having a scroll through this thread and you'd have to wonder why anyone would want to start showing anyway, and why people do it in the first place.

It's not true that all sports are like this......I've been competing in herding trials this year and it's so far from the dog show world that the only common denominator is the dogs. From my first day of training, I found it to be friendly and welcoming and there's no bitchiness in sight. No one cares about who bred who's dogs, or who's at what level......pedigree show dogs compete alongside registered mutts, on equal footing. Herding is something that's taken over some of the weekends I used to show, because the atmosphere at a herding trial, the togetherness of the competitors and the encouragement of the spectators makes you want to go back again.

If ''In my opinion'' decided your herding results your comparison would be valid.

But it doesn't, so it's not.

I was referring to previous comments in this thread that "all sports are the same" when it comes to politics, bitchiness, nasty people etc. They aren't. And there aren't that many other activities where "in my opinion" decides the results. "In my opinion" coupled with no justification for the opinion....ie, no verbal or written critique or point scorecard, makes dog showing in a class of it's own. Even cat shows have judges giving verbal critiques about the cats, to justify their choice of winner.

The fact that it's an activity involving dogs and big, mature, grown up people, competing for *something* makes it a very valid comparison.

Edited November 5, 2011 by GayleK

[Lhok]

As spectators my husband and I weren't too impressed with what we saw. There was no map or times to show or tell you were to go if you were looking for a particular breed so we got lost and confused. We kept asking people about the breeds we were interested in and no one could tell us/didn't care to talk to us we felt so bad for even turning up.

If it hadn't of been for a lovely lady who was in the middle of grooming her Skye Terrier to give us a lend of her catalog and spoke us through it to find out what we would like to know my husband and I would have walked away. After we knew where we wanted to go we were delighted to talk to the owners of the Akitas that were there and they were even happy enough for us to have a cuddle so we eventually walked away with a positive.

Also on a note re volunteering, I know this wouldn't be the case for most clubs but I have offered to help at shows before, I know I have no idea about the show scene apart from what I have seen/heard and read but nothing has come of it so I haven't bothered to follow up with anything regarding it.

--Lhok

[stonecutter]

GayleK - could non-conformation sports like herding be seen as more friendy because more than one dog can gain a pass towards a title on the day? My understanding is that everyone who did well enough (to the standard) can pass. Whereas in conformation - only one dog and one bitch within the breed can come away with Ch points.

[Gayle.]

GayleK - could non-conformation sports like herding be seen as more friendy because more than one dog can gain a pass towards a title on the day? My understanding is that everyone who did well enough (to the standard) can pass. Whereas in conformation - only one dog and one bitch within the breed can come away with Ch points.

Possibly. But that doesn't explain the snippy attitude of others who don't show the same breed, the impatience of club secretaries, the snide remarks you overhear when watching from the sidelines.

It also doesn't explain the rudeness of dog show people to newcomers or onlookers, and although everyone seems to get defensive about it, there's more than a little anecdotal evidence to show that it's rife and it's not limited to any breed in particular.

If you showed up at a herding trial to have a look to see what it's all about, you'd go away knowing more about it, having been welcomed by humans and dogs, you'd be offered a hot drink and a meal if lunch was on and you'd leave there all inspired to have a go at herding.

[Shazzapug]

Having a scroll through this thread and you'd have to wonder why anyone would want to start showing anyway, and why people do it in the first place.

It's not true that all sports are like this......I've been competing in herding trials this year and it's so far from the dog show world that the only common denominator is the dogs. From my first day of training, I found it to be friendly and welcoming and there's no bitchiness in sight. No one cares about who bred who's dogs, or who's at what level......pedigree show dogs compete alongside registered mutts, on equal footing. Herding is something that's taken over some of the weekends I used to show, because the atmosphere at a herding trial, the togetherness of the competitors and the encouragement of the spectators makes you want to go back again.

If ''In my opinion'' decided your herding results your comparison would be valid.

But it doesn't, so it's not.

I was referring to previous comments in this thread that "all sports are the same" when it comes to politics, bitchiness, nasty people etc. They aren't. And there aren't that many other activities where "in my opinion" decides the results. "In my opinion" coupled with no justification for the opinion....ie, no verbal or written critique or point scorecard, makes dog showing in a class of it's own. Even cat shows have judges giving verbal critiques about the cats, to justify their choice of winner.

The fact that it's an activity involving dogs and big, mature, grown up people, competing for *something* makes it a very valid comparison.

But I think it doesnt compare cos one is a beauty contest and the other is an ability race/contest.

[Shazzapug]

GayleK - could non-conformation sports like herding be seen as more friendy because more than one dog can gain a pass towards a title on the day? My understanding is that everyone who did well enough (to the standard) can pass. Whereas in conformation - only one dog and one bitch within the breed can come away with Ch points.

Possibly. But that doesn't explain the snippy attitude of others who don't show the same breed, the impatience of club secretaries, the snide remarks you overhear when watching from the sidelines.

It also doesn't explain the rudeness of dog show people to newcomers or onlookers, and although everyone seems to get defensive about it, there's more than a little anecdotal evidence to show that it's rife and it's not limited to any breed in particular.

If you showed up at a herding trial to have a look to see what it's all about, you'd go away knowing more about it, having been welcomed by humans and dogs, you'd be offered a hot drink and a meal if lunch was on and you'd leave there all inspired to have a go at herding.

Once again the good get tarred with the same brush as the bad...way too general a statement.

[Gayle.]

Whatever. The topic posted by the OP is this:

Why Is It So why are numbers dropping off in the rings/shows

and my comments are as valid as anyone else's.

[Mandalay]

Yes everyone can have there say and all is fair in war, love and dog show, I say

As a person that has been involved with a few different dog sports over the years, Showing is not for every one either is Hearding or Obedience or what ever your choice....

OR heaven help me, your age.......now my breed of choice is the Pug, not great at heading really but then I have never tried

So yes all have you say by all means but I think you have to take into account breed preference......

[SkySoaringMagpie]

Whatever. The topic posted by the OP is this:

Why Is It So why are numbers dropping off in the rings/shows

and my comments are as valid as anyone else's.

Depends what you mean by valid. If you mean "we are all entitled to an opinion" - well opinion is just that, not fact.

I have been really irritated by a show secretary once in 6 years of dog showing. Does that mean one of us is wrong?

[OSoSwift]

Any sport can be bitchy, anything that involves passes or a winner can be bitchy.

Go past those people and find the ones who are not. I know some wonderful people in showing, obedience and agility. I know some I wouldn't waste my breathe on as well.

[OSoSwift]

I do ponder if in this day and age where many are brought up as we are all winners, yadda yadda, whether or not some do not like it as it fosteres a competive streak in people.

Many young people are brought up that having a winner or loser is bad, some I know personally cannot handle critisism. I took a young friend to a show, her bitch (only one of it's breed) won her class and got non awarded for the challenge. She took it personally got her bitch desexed within a fortnight and vowed never to go back as she did not handle her bitch being non-awarded at all.

Many people who apparently know, have told us to teach our young-uns there is no such thing as failure (even our school systems have no fail anymore)so in an atmosphere such as the show ring where there are failures and there are dogs non-awarded maybe they just cannot handle the fact they have failed when they have not been taught to have resilience?

[Shaar]

I do ponder if in this day and age where many are brought up as we are all winners, yadda yadda, whether or not some do not like it as it fosteres a competive streak in people.

Many young people are brought up that having a winner or loser is bad, some I know personally cannot handle critisism. I took a young friend to a show, her bitch (only one of it's breed) won her class and got non awarded for the challenge. She took it personally got her bitch desexed within a fortnight and vowed never to go back as she did not handle her bitch being non-awarded at all.

Many people who apparently know, have told us to teach our young-uns there is no such thing as failure (even our school systems have no fail anymore)so in an atmosphere such as the show ring where there are failures and there are dogs non-awarded maybe they just cannot handle the fact they have failed when they have not been taught to have resilience?

Some people cannot handle losing.

I remember in primary schoool we had our yearly cross country. I would come last every year.

My best friend who used to win every year decided on the last ever cross country in grade 6 she would walk the course with me and finish just behind me so I didn't come last in our last year at that school.

Sorry, off-topic but that just reminded me of that, feeling nostalgic now.

The b*tchiness has always been there, I don't see it in every breed or with every person though. When I was a newcomer to my breed the current people in it were fantastic to me. The whole group has generally been very supportive and we all congratulate each other on our wins.

[Belljari]

personally, as an outsider who considered showing with her dogs, its the atmosphere. I have been a few times, you try and ask questions or just watch and there are so many sour faces. It feels like if you're not part of the 'in' crowd you're not welcome or encouraged. Such a shame really that so many seem to see it as a threat instead of something to encourage and more good dogs being perpetuated and shown publically.

just do it! I knew no one, knew nothing, my only advantage, if you could call it that, was I had trialled in obedience and agility, so had a very vague idea of what was going on. And it was very vague. I sat down with total strangers who were only too pleased to help me out. I told the steward I was new to all this, in fact told the stewards at my first few shows I was a newbie. Honestly the stewards and judges were all so nice and helpful. The people I talked to and sat next to were the same. I'm not part of any in crowd, but I have a good time, after 5 years, quite a few people recognise me and we nod and smile at each other, I have made friends and we all sit together, people will help me out if I need a hound holder or a handler. Even people I don't know. It's not that hard. I don't know why some people make out it's a big conspiracy against them, I've enjoyed it since day one. I'm quite happy to sit on my own with my dogs if no one else I know is there, I usually strike up a conversation with the nearby people, I am happy to read a book, whatever. It's my day out and I enjoy it. I don't rely on other people to make it fun for me, I do that myself.

This is exactly how Iam also! I go to enjoy myself with my dogs Iam happy to talk to anyone and I do or Iam happy just to sit with my dogs and watch whats going on.

Just like anything you do in life you have people who are not very friendly and others that are very friendly.

[smacka]

I don't think the whinging & bitching constantly referred to here is any more,or less, than any other sport/hobby/pastime participated in by such a diverse variety of people. Some will always find something to whinge/bitch about no matter what.

What is mostly being termed here as whinging & bitching is, in most cases, actually a release of frustration expressed by informed comment.

The majority of breeder/exhibitors, if not all, could be correctly described as breed experts.

Breed experts appreciate & admire outstanding examples of their breed.

These people know the worthy winners. They also know the not so worthy.It's the awarding of the latter which sometimes results in uncomplimentary comment.

If you took the time to listen and/or ask the "thë whinger" the whys & wherefores of their "whinge" you may just learn something about that particular breed.

"Ïn my opinion" is incontestable & as such is open to abuse, which it often is. Too often.

Hence the frustation.

It has also been my experience that the majority of exhibitors are more than happy to chat about their breeds in particular & the show scene in general.

There is always the exception of course, but they are in the minority, a very small minority.

[Gayle.]

As I said earlier, I don't believe it's the bitching the face judging, the opinions etc....because I think that's always been there. I believe the major reason for declining numbers is a huge decline in interest in the people of Australia in owning pedigree dogs. They've been told by TV "experts" that cross breeds are better pets and that's what they now buy.

If there's a decline in owning pedigree dogs, it will flow on to a decline in breeding them, making them available to newcomers for breeding (with a justifiable worry that they may be used for cross breeding) which will then flow on to the showcase of the pedigree world, the dog show.

It's happened very fast, it's still happening and by and large, the controlling bodies in the pedigree dog world are just letting it happen.

[smacka]

As I said earlier, I don't believe it's the bitching the face judging, the opinions etc....because I think that's always been there. I believe the major reason for declining numbers is a huge decline in interest in the people of Australia in owning pedigree dogs. They've been told by TV "experts" that cross breeds are better pets and that's what they now buy.

If there's a decline in owning pedigree dogs, it will flow on to a decline in breeding them, making them available to newcomers for breeding (with a justifiable worry that they may be used for cross breeding) which will then flow on to the showcase of the pedigree world, the dog show.

It's happened very fast, it's still happening and by and large, the controlling bodies in the pedigree dog world are just letting it happen.

Interesting theory.

But I think cost, dissatisfaction with the controlling bodies preoccupation with nest feathering & protecting their own against any criticism, the limited register & the sudden unpopularity of the previously docked breeds have all contributed more to the fall off more than the rise in popularity of designer mongrels.

[Gayle.]

I think they've probably been a contributing factor but a lot of them were there well before numbers started to decline so rapidly and had no effect.

It would be interesting to see the numbers for non-docked breeds and if they've fallen off dramatically as docked breeds have. I do think limited register has a lot to answer for.......puppies are immediately being taken out of the equation for breeding and new puppy buyers placed under immediate suspicion if they even breathe a word about wanting to eventually breed.

I don't honestly think cost has all that much to do with it......people spending amazing amounts of money on completely stupid things, without batting an eyelid. If someone really wanted to show dogs, they'd find a way to afford it. Those here who've said cost is a factor are still showing......they might be showing less but they still find a way to afford the shows they do enter.

I believe there is one other reason, but I'm not going to go into it here, wrong place to discuss my particular other theory.