SparkyTansy Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 not that it is indicative of showing numbers, but DogsWest memberships were up slightly on last year not including associates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conztruct Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 (edited) I quite enjoy showing but I agree, that there are some absolutely perplexing decisions at times but that's what you get with subjective judging I guess. Yep - I'm sure face-judging happens which is a shame - there is little in the way of accountability for judges decisions though so unless something is done about that, things will continue. If you don't have a system that encourages excellence with appropriate checks and balances then it's not going to work really well. From my perspective, this year was the first year I did the Brisbane Royal. Showing in the indoor venue, with people watching was totally different and to be honest it was much more of a buzz that the usual shows I do. We were also lucky that one of the judges was excellent at "whooping" up the crowd and getting them involved so it was really enjoyable. Maybe we need more shows like this - I see it as a possibility in our areas and north in particular as it would also take unseasonal weather out of the equation - problem is finding an appropriate venue. I also really enjoy the Ag shows moreso than the other champ shows but have noticed that the dogs kind of get pushed off to the side where nobody really sees them. I think this is a bit of a shame because a lot of people like looking at the dogs. I agree with a lot of the reasons people have advised for declining numbers but I think the time factor is a really big one - we are leading busier and busier lives and more to schedules. Sometimes being at a dog show all day waiting just seems like unproductive time when there's other things that need to be done at home, etc so I think that may be a bit of a deterrent. I know this tends to happen in our regional area where we only have 2 judges and the day can really drag on - I wonder if it would make a difference if we did get some extra judges to further split the groups and reduce the time of the show - I also see it as an excellent opportunity for new judges with one or two groups to be used and to gain experience. I wonder whether it would be worth a few people involved in shows getting together and talking about it and maybe making some recommendations and trialling a few of the suggestions and providing some feedback so others can consider similar initiatives. Edited October 25, 2011 by conztruct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Lolapalooza* Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 I wonder if it's beacause 15-20 years ago people had more time? Maybe worked less and had more time to do dog stuff, mortgages weren't so horrendous 10 years ago. I work shift work so luckily I often have days off during the week...I dont know how people can work 5 big days then spend all weekend getting up early to go to shows, they must be pooped and never get anything done?! Face judging happens of course but I truly think most judges do their best and it's the few that ruin it for the many (this could be me being a mary poppins here ) I think that for new people to get good dogs is hard as they are unknowns and with the days of oodles and 'puppy farms' their is a lot of distrust. and breeders spend so much time and effort getting their 'lines' that some don't just want to hand them to people. JMO also the council wont let you have as many dogs now, and ANKC should advertise more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 I think for someone coming into showing it can be extremely hard to be able to get a dog on mains to show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Well I have followed this thread with interest and I have not seen one of the most obvious reasons for declining numbers and that is...... its been been declining over the last 20 years since the hey day of dog showing. Many of us are 20 years older and and are pensioners and can not afford to show and breed like we used to. Also many of us have dropped of the perch. So why aren't younger people getting involved? Possibly because their are far more interesting things to do today than wash concrete and pick up dog poo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandalay Posted October 25, 2011 Author Share Posted October 25, 2011 Thankyou everyone for getting involved in this topic, seems we have alot of points of view.. As I read with interest one that keeps coming up is C O S T !!!! I know this is not a cheap sport with the rising cost of not only your membership to Canine bodies, to show entries, cost of petrol & Accommodation.......the price of a decent pup for showing can be way over the top (when many cash in on this & not sell these "Newbies" show quality pups..... Face judging has always been there but I feel it is more blatant now or do these judges just do not care either?? Still this is my hobby, I enjoy it, I do not spend huge amounts of money on travel, I only show in my area under certain judges and maybe only do 1 day instead of 2 as yes I have other things to do......but others maybe out every w/e week day travelling around like the Leyland Brothers, rain,hail, snow or shine.....breeding batch after batch of puppies, I feel it is some of these people that have made a fair mess of this sport and breeds. BUT who is ACCOUNTABLE ...the people themselves or the controlling bodies???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dellcara Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Thankyou everyone for getting involved in this topic, seems we have alot of points of view.. BUT who is ACCOUNTABLE ...the people themselves or the controlling bodies???? it has been a good topic ... Like you Mandalay I will often do 1 show on a weekend of 2 or more ... I have many other things to do than spend all my weekends at dog shows. I do of course enjoy showing (and with some success ) .... but again like you i find that face judging is far more blatant than it used to be ... and voting with your feet doesn't seem to work. I have seen the same judges get appointments from their mates over and over again despite drawing terrible entries. Who's accountable ??.... sadly no-one !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarakay Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 I have also been reading this thread and I just need to ask what do you call "face judging" is it the same person winning or do you think it is "payback" we have a dog that does well in the ring and we are not "faces" we believe that our breeder has entrusted us with a very good dog,also a lot of our wins have been under judges that went through judges training when they had to judge x amount of dogs before they were allowed to progress to the next groups,there is a few judges around that took 20+ yrs to get their AB license,none paid for their last groups they had to do the hard yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 In our group, the same dogs win most of the time and they win under all different judges, they win at Royals, they win at specialty shows, they win in other states......they are simply really beautiful dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Thankyou everyone for getting involved in this topic, seems we have alot of points of view.. BUT who is ACCOUNTABLE ...the people themselves or the controlling bodies???? it has been a good topic ... Like you Mandalay I will often do 1 show on a weekend of 2 or more ... I have many other things to do than spend all my weekends at dog shows. I do of course enjoy showing (and with some success ) .... but again like you i find that face judging is far more blatant than it used to be ... and voting with your feet doesn't seem to work. I have seen the same judges get appointments from their mates over and over again despite drawing terrible entries. Who's accountable ??.... sadly no-one !!! I got told once that it's really rude to show up on the last day of a 3-show weekend. And yet I often only show on a Sunday because I have other things to do on Saturdays and I work on weekdays, so Sunday is generally my only free day to go to a show, and if it's the last day of a 3-show weekend, then so be it. It's not rude, it's just a time constraint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dellcara Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 There are many consistent winning dogs around that win under a multitude of judges. In my opinion when people talk about "face judging" they are referring to the cases where some people win no matter the quality of the dog .... Judges always come under a hard time - you can't please everyone - and of course there are far more losers than winners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dellcara Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 I got told once that it's really rude to show up on the last day of a 3-show weekend. And yet I often only show on a Sunday because I have other things to do on Saturdays and I work on weekdays, so Sunday is generally my only free day to go to a show, and if it's the last day of a 3-show weekend, then so be it. It's not rude, it's just a time constraint. I'd be ignoring that comment GayleK .... what a silly statement for someone to make .... It's most defintely NOT rude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkyTansy Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 I got told once that it's really rude to show up on the last day of a 3-show weekend. And yet I often only show on a Sunday because I have other things to do on Saturdays and I work on weekdays, so Sunday is generally my only free day to go to a show, and if it's the last day of a 3-show weekend, then so be it. It's not rude, it's just a time constraint. I'd be ignoring that comment GayleK .... what a silly statement for someone to make .... It's most defintely NOT rude. Agree! especially as you have given them the benefit of your entry for one of the days - that's one more entry fee than they would have received!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emery Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 There are many consistent winning dogs around that win under a multitude of judges. In my opinion when people talk about "face judging" they are referring to the cases where some people win no matter the quality of the dog .... Judges always come under a hard time - you can't please everyone - and of course there are far more losers than winners. I agree with this but also believe it that the person can take in any dog or breed and win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirst_goldens Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 I like showing, but I don't do it very regularly as I get sick of it quickly. I have three weekends of shows coming up and after that I'm gonna need a 3 month break to recover! LOL! To be honest, since I've discovered herding, I'm more inclined to spend my money and time on that because like you with obedience, I find herding to be extremely positive and very, very friendly. I've never had anyone say anything negative about my herding dog, only very encouraging and positive things and the same with my handling. I've only ever been made to feel like we belong, not like we have to prove that we're good enough to be there. And yet the bolded section is how I have felt in all the years I have been showing. I know not everyone is as lucky as me, but getting into showing has been a positive experience for me, and Mum. We have shown in two groups and people from both have been nothing but helpful and encouraged us, both in our breed and in others. Many of them are now great friends and I love going to shows to see them, win or lose. I know there is negativity there too, I have occasionally experienced it, but not often, and from people who's oppions don't matter to me anyway. I must agree with this i have been VERY lucky as a newbie my first show dog is 8 months now and i dabbled in handling of others to start with and most have been really nice and helpful. There are people i dont wish to befriend but we are civil and i think that is general good manners! just because u dont like someone or their dogs doesnt give u a reason to be down right rude and abbrasive! We found at our last specialty that no matter where u get a judges from someone knows them and has their lines etc.. including international and if they dont know them once the name of the judge is announced in the shedule every competitor adds them on facebook!! we are trying to think of ways to prevent this happening as some put up albums of their dogs and their progeny and BAM all those dog were put up in a row... very dissapointing considering the time and effort that goes into a champ show and contracting international judges!! So i guess many of my reasons are much like everyone elses.. time, money, faces, dissapointment... etc... etc.. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shazzapug Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 If kennel clubs dropped the price of entries, only has to be a dollar, then maybe some of us would enter and be able to enter more than the usual...as I believe it is the costs that affect entries more than any face judging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaar Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 I sometimes only enter the first day of a 2 or 3 day show. If I have been beaten on the Saturday people probably think "sour grapes" that I didn't go the next day but that's their problem... I know I just never entered for whatever reason (work, family engagement etc). I don't have a problem with the entry cost of actual shows, ours are always around the $10 mark except for Royals, it's the petrol travelling to shows that's the killer, that's why I rarely venture down south unless it's a big show or I am going halves in petrol with someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandalay Posted October 26, 2011 Author Share Posted October 26, 2011 In our group, the same dogs win most of the time and they win under all different judges, they win at Royals, they win at specialty shows, they win in other states......they are simply really beautiful dogs. Yes GayleK There are some beautiful dogs out there, BUT , wouldn't you think that one beautiful dog out of a line up is the only that can win ???? I have seen some outstanding group line up's in ALL groups and the judge has a terrible time because they are after all the Best of there breeds out there. I will agree there are dogs that win everywhere but I would have thought that maybe advertising & handling may help just a winny bit......another thing a lot of people can not afford to do, is have there dog /face posted in every mag you would like to pick up..... Just a thought !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Well, that's not true in at least one case I know of. I've never seen the dog/face plastered in any magazine. Just the regular small pics of group wins that appear in every Dogs Vic magazine but they aren't submitted by the owners of the dog. They are just show results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 For me it's simply the cost, where I used to show all the time, anywhere and everywhere, I will now pick the judges that I have done well under and will only travel for them. Same goes for the home shows, I would enter all of them, now I only enter if I like the judges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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