pie Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I haven't stepped foot in the obedience ring for quite a few years now but there was plenty of bitching going on there when I was competing. Yes I have seen it in dogsport rings as well Yep... but I think it's inevitable when large groups of people get together, especially when competing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I have found in obedience that although there is some bitchiness (as there is in any group of people), people I don't even know cheer and congratulate me for getting a Q! If a dog in the ring does something wrong, everyone outside the ring groans... people genuinely want others to be successful. I don't even know whether showing is like this or not but the perception to most people is that it is not so friendly. And it's all about what people think, whether it's true or not. For my next obedience/agility dog I will consider showing as well but I just don't know whether there are enough positives for me to want to go down that path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whippets Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Nothing worse than seeing 2 70+ year old ladies going fist to cuffs over who had the best fruit cake. The Cake Ladies at ag shows are the worst!!!! Getting back to dogs: 1/ It's harder to keep dogs now with all the council bureaucratic hoops you have to jump through. Alot of breeders have thrown theirs hands up and given up. 2/ Face judging is and will always be around. But with that being said, get yourself (or breed) a great show dog and it will win. 3/ We live in PC world. Some people get overly sensitive about the tiniest things. 4/ If you really know what kind of person you are, any crap that anyone else says should just wash over you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 It's interesting that the decline in show numbers has happened quite rapidly. When I first started to show, just a few years ago, there were regularly entries of 1100-1200 in Vic metro shows. Today I got my numbers for a show on Saturday and there's 770 entered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I haven't stepped foot in the obedience ring for quite a few years now but there was plenty of bitching going on there when I was competing. Yes I have seen it in dogsport rings as well Yep... but I think it's inevitable when large groups of people get together, especially when competing Yep you are right about that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonecutter Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 (edited) Very nice words GayleK Someone mentioned about other dog activities - we also train OB and have been to a DWD workshop - I like the fact that every dog that does well to the written standard/requirements can get a pass towards the title or qualification. I know that can't be the case in conformation shows - but I feel more encouraged to try one of these other activities (when Ziva is old enough). Also, on young people in showing - I'm not sure if I'm classified as young (32), but having been to shows most weekends for the last 3-4 months - every young person I've chatted to in my group (non-sporting), except 1, who is involved in showing comes from a family who already shows/breeds. I'm the only person who is new to showing (and owning a dog) that I've met so far, besides Katie P (also in JS) I'm always chatting to strange people - Ziva is a great ice breaker coz she's so cute and friendly :D Edited October 20, 2011 by stonecutter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huntia Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 (edited) I also think that the lack of judging accountability causes a few people to lose interest. I personally would like to see a system where a dog is judged against a points sheet. And then this sheet could be made available so the exhibitor could see why their dog didn't get put up. This would also go a long way towards eliminating the face judging or payback judging. There are many other competitions where each individual entry is judged against a set sheet of points. I am a new exhibitor and new to my breed as well and this would be very useful! I believe this is how the JS is judged in Japan Kind of on the above topic, I would love to get more actual feedback from judges. One of the main reasons we show is to get a judge's opinion on our dog and how closely it meets the standard. Every now and again you come across a judge who will explain their reasoning for putting certain dogs up, or provide some feedback on your dog, but really it's not that often. Me too. I would love feedback from the judges!! I come from a background of showing cattle (at a school level) and the judge always gives a critique and reasons why he/she has picked their say top 4. I would love that in dog showing. At least than you could learn what you or your dog were doing wrong or right according to that particular judge. :D As a newbie to showing that would be wonderful :D ETA I went to one specialty show last April and the judge critiqued each dog.....it was so nice to get some feedback Edited October 20, 2011 by Huntia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huntia Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I would love to be able to show more often than I do currently. Unfortunately my husband does not enjoy the dog show world and with a 6 yr old and a 3 and 1/2 yr old, a farm to run and a job through the week most weekends are family time away from the ring. I have on occassion taken the 2 kids with me by myself, but it is not quite as relaxing with my 2 adorable munchkins with me. Generally I try to show at least once a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedi knight Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I also think that the lack of judging accountability causes a few people to lose interest. I personally would like to see a system where a dog is judged against a points sheet. And then this sheet could be made available so the exhibitor could see why their dog didn't get put up. This would also go a long way towards eliminating the face judging or payback judging. There are many other competitions where each individual entry is judged against a set sheet of points. I am a new exhibitor and new to my breed as well and this would be very useful! I believe this is how the JS is judged in Japan Kind of on the above topic, I would love to get more actual feedback from judges. One of the main reasons we show is to get a judge's opinion on our dog and how closely it meets the standard. Every now and again you come across a judge who will explain their reasoning for putting certain dogs up, or provide some feedback on your dog, but really it's not that often. Me too. I would love feedback from the judges!! I come from a background of showing cattle (at a school level) and the judge always gives a critique and reasons why he/she has picked their say top 4. I would love that in dog showing. At least than you could learn what you or your dog were doing wrong or right according to that particular judge. :D As a newbie to showing that would be wonderful :D At specialty shows they do critiques which are brilliant we mainly stick to the specialty show scene these days things are alot different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huntia Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I also think that the lack of judging accountability causes a few people to lose interest. I personally would like to see a system where a dog is judged against a points sheet. And then this sheet could be made available so the exhibitor could see why their dog didn't get put up. This would also go a long way towards eliminating the face judging or payback judging. There are many other competitions where each individual entry is judged against a set sheet of points. I am a new exhibitor and new to my breed as well and this would be very useful! I believe this is how the JS is judged in Japan Kind of on the above topic, I would love to get more actual feedback from judges. One of the main reasons we show is to get a judge's opinion on our dog and how closely it meets the standard. Every now and again you come across a judge who will explain their reasoning for putting certain dogs up, or provide some feedback on your dog, but really it's not that often. Me too. I would love feedback from the judges!! I come from a background of showing cattle (at a school level) and the judge always gives a critique and reasons why he/she has picked their say top 4. I would love that in dog showing. At least than you could learn what you or your dog were doing wrong or right according to that particular judge. :D As a newbie to showing that would be wonderful :D At specialty shows they do critiques which are brilliant we mainly stick to the specialty show scene these days things are alot different Jinx... I had just edited to add that! :D Wouldn't it be nice if they could do this for at least the challenges of each breed. I know it would be time consuming...but welcome to us newbies :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedi knight Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 the whole show scene could do with a shake up other wise it is only going to get worse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjelkier Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I have found in obedience that although there is some bitchiness (as there is in any group of people), people I don't even know cheer and congratulate me for getting a Q! If a dog in the ring does something wrong, everyone outside the ring groans... people genuinely want others to be successful. I don't even know whether showing is like this or not but the perception to most people is that it is not so friendly. And it's all about what people think, whether it's true or not. For my next obedience/agility dog I will consider showing as well but I just don't know whether there are enough positives for me to want to go down that path. I have often been cheered on by people I have never met before when I win and I do the same for others. Only last weekend a lady I have never even seen before congradulated me on my Minors BOB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayly Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 After the first class in group I ever won, Mum and I got congratulated by heaps of people we didn't know or know well, including so called faces, all breed judges and big winners. My first BIG was the same. Every BOB or challenge or class in group winner in my breed I try to make sure I say congratulations. I don't have to have agreed with the result, but they stil deserve the congrats. I like showing, and I obviously I have been lucky enough to miss most of the crap that apparently goes on. I've seen a lot of crap, and sure, I know some people have bitched about me or my dog but I don't understand the point in getting hung up about it. All I can do is be the person I want to be, set an example for others, make sure I don't make the experience a negative one for people around me, and enjoy my day. But I've only been showing for 5 years, so who knows, maybe in another 5 I will feel differently. Right now I am really craving a day at a show, I haven't been to one in a few weeks and uni is doing my head in! Its my way to unwind from uni and gives me something else to think about. I cope much better with uni work when I've had the little break for a day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 (edited) After the first class in group I ever won, Mum and I got congratulated by heaps of people we didn't know or know well, including so called faces, all breed judges and big winners. My first BIG was the same. Every BOB or challenge or class in group winner in my breed I try to make sure I say congratulations. I don't have to have agreed with the result, but they stil deserve the congrats. I like showing, and I obviously I have been lucky enough to miss most of the crap that apparently goes on. I've seen a lot of crap, and sure, I know some people have bitched about me or my dog but I don't understand the point in getting hung up about it. All I can do is be the person I want to be, set an example for others, make sure I don't make the experience a negative one for people around me, and enjoy my day. But I've only been showing for 5 years, so who knows, maybe in another 5 I will feel differently. Right now I am really craving a day at a show, I haven't been to one in a few weeks and uni is doing my head in! Its my way to unwind from uni and gives me something else to think about. I cope much better with uni work when I've had the little break for a day! The topic is about why numbers at shows are dropping, and people feeling insulted by their fellow competitors is a very valid reason as to why they no longer show, and could be, in part, one of the reasons entries are falling. Just because you aren't upset by it, doesn't mean someone else isn't going to be and it doesn't mean their feelings are less important than yours. I don't personally think it plays a big part as I suspect it's always been like that, the same as "face judging". My husband used to come to every show with me, now he flatly refuses, he absolutely hates it. Hates the atmosphere and hates what he hears going on around him. I asked him one day why he hears so much more than me and he pointed out that he is usually sitting reading a newspaper, minding his own business and not talking. People assume he's not listening so they say all kinds of things in his earshot. Edited October 20, 2011 by GayleK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonecutter Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 After the first class in group I ever won, Mum and I got congratulated by heaps of people we didn't know or know well, including so called faces, all breed judges and big winners. My first BIG was the same. Every BOB or challenge or class in group winner in my breed I try to make sure I say congratulations. I don't have to have agreed with the result, but they stil deserve the congrats. I like showing, and I obviously I have been lucky enough to miss most of the crap that apparently goes on. I've seen a lot of crap, and sure, I know some people have bitched about me or my dog but I don't understand the point in getting hung up about it. All I can do is be the person I want to be, set an example for others, make sure I don't make the experience a negative one for people around me, and enjoy my day. But I've only been showing for 5 years, so who knows, maybe in another 5 I will feel differently. Right now I am really craving a day at a show, I haven't been to one in a few weeks and uni is doing my head in! Its my way to unwind from uni and gives me something else to think about. I cope much better with uni work when I've had the little break for a day! Good on you - I always say congrats to the winners as well - basic good sportspersonship (if that's a word!), some say thankyou, others ignore me - doesn't worry me at all. For a while I was bringing my uni work to a show - but it was a nice relaxing environment to do the work in :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandalay Posted October 21, 2011 Author Share Posted October 21, 2011 Huntia I watch cattle judging a few time , yes the judge is held accountable as they MUST give a critque of the beast, not just a I liked this one better, Right down to the size of it testicles I understand that with the number of dogs they judge this would be alittle hard, BUT I would like to state most of the people showing their breed know more about the breed than the judges do, I have never moaned about being beaten by a better dog that is what it is all about (Improving the breed) .... We can see so many of the breeds being ruined & that is sad.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyValley Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 After the first class in group I ever won, Mum and I got congratulated by heaps of people we didn't know or know well, including so called faces, all breed judges and big winners. My first BIG was the same. Every BOB or challenge or class in group winner in my breed I try to make sure I say congratulations. I don't have to have agreed with the result, but they stil deserve the congrats. I like showing, and I obviously I have been lucky enough to miss most of the crap that apparently goes on. I've seen a lot of crap, and sure, I know some people have bitched about me or my dog but I don't understand the point in getting hung up about it. All I can do is be the person I want to be, set an example for others, make sure I don't make the experience a negative one for people around me, and enjoy my day. But I've only been showing for 5 years, so who knows, maybe in another 5 I will feel differently. Right now I am really craving a day at a show, I haven't been to one in a few weeks and uni is doing my head in! Its my way to unwind from uni and gives me something else to think about. I cope much better with uni work when I've had the little break for a day! Mostly this but a bit different. I was involved in agility before showing and have only been in showing for a few years I probably class as a younger exhibitor (21) and at shows my friends are all similar age or a little bit older. Recently at the Perth Royal a young girl who was awaiting a puppy in my breed to arrive from over East came up and introduced herself, she expressed an interest in showing. I talked to her for a while and exchanged details, if it turns out that her pup is not able to be shown (she hadn't realised she had to ask the breeder about that until I told her) I will invite her to handle my bitch when she is better behaved and let her know about Junior Handlers. I also encouraged her to look into agility if she can't show. I have also recruited a field trailer to showing (very excited about handling his dog) and a second is likely to start next year. These are all dogs in my breed and potential 'competition' to my dog, two of the people I have encouraged have bitches similar ages to mine (one a few months older, one a few months younger) but I really don't care! I would rather see the dogs out there. I am interested in UG Field Trialling, the people who compete locally have been soooo helpful, inviting us out to trials, training days, one trailer even invited us along to ongoing private training sessions that do not benefit his own dog, just some up and comer pups. These people seem to remember that they will become extinct without new blood, not see everyone new as competition, when did show people stop caring? Also just a note - obedience is NOT flourishing as someone earlier mentioned, numbers are dropping in that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swift09 Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 no one has mentioned shift work, people work 24/7 these days in most industries, no more automatic weekends off. I have to book to get weekends off and was bold enough to request 3 out of 4 right now. Thank you Boss for giving them to me :D I love my showing, I go to shows expecting nothing but to have a good time. It is my hobby, my time out of a busy stressful life to just sit around with my dogs. I rarely take notice of who is judging, I take more notice of the weather, but I do like showing under internationals as they are more likely to have seen multiples of my breed. But it doesn't really matter. I haven't shown for most of this year due to breeding a litter, but the shows that I have been to, the other exhibitors I have sat near have all been nice, which is true for the majority, for all my short showing career, nearly 5 years now. Yes it costs a fortune in petrol, especially now I am towing a larger trailer, but it's just a cost I factor in. I would be quite well off if I didn't have dogs but life would be pretty boring then. I agree with Rebanne, I work retail and there is no 9 to 5 weekday work. Makes it very hard to get to dog shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkyTansy Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 (edited) Since I started showing, I have watched and learned. some people gave me help and support when I started and i, in turn, supported and helped newcomers to my breed and even people not in my breed. I feel I have done my bit to give back to the dog show world, and yet, there are times that I feel that I shouldn't be there because of comments I have heard or general attitude from people that I have done nothing to. I have had a much better experience from Field Triallers and Retrieving people.They seem to acknowledge that their sport is reducing in numbers and they put effort in to help new people. Part of their struggle is one of space and time... trials have to be held further and further out of capital cities to allow for space (and birds) Edited October 21, 2011 by SparkyTansy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedi knight Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 (edited) my husband feels that the judging and showing has lost its way as a breeder/exhibitor the reason why you breed and show are to improve the breed if possible, then you take what you have breed to a dog show to show what you have breed and to see how you stack up to others, and to the breed standard, and to socialize with other breeders to learn and develop more about the breed, as you never stop learning but when dogs win due to whose holding the lead or how the dog was handled, makes you think do i breed to what the judges want ,or do i stick to the breed standard ,thats where the judges need to really know there standard and judge fairly as if they are not careful people will ask them selves do i breed to the judges standard or do i stick to the actually breed standard as people do get kennel blind as then when you lose to a better dog (been judged fairly ) you can then look and learn to breed a better dog next time thats how you improve the breed thats why we enjoy the specialty shows as we get a critique on the dogs (feed back from the judge )and the feed back you get from others is very helpful as we are all interested in the same thing BREEDING BETTER DOGS let me ask you this as well for some breeds it is near impossible to win a best in show due to the breed of a dog which is sad for instance how often has a bull terrier won a best in show at a all breeds Edited October 21, 2011 by jedi knight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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