lilli_star Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 In my years in WA there was a group trying to do Lab rescue, but I think they gave up cause they rarely found any dogs to rescue . . . the demand for Labs is far greater than the supply . . . between toilet paper adds and Guide Dogs you have a huge built in PR campaign. Which can only be a good thing. And the demand greater than supply, another reason why prices are following an upward trend! Unfortunately that's not the case in NSW. Just ask Amanda at Labradog Rescue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyBlue Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Would i be better off looking at their scores rather then price and going for better scores.? Yes, you should be looking for health first and foremost. Or you could keep an eye on this page: http://www.rescuealabrador.com/dogs-available-for-adoption Scores AND temperament AND conformation AND knowledge of the lines. The breed will go down the gurgler if we select by hip and elbow scores alone. Unfortunately, some of the more important health aspects, such as prone-ness to cancer, bloat, and heart problems are hard to quantify. And Labs generally have great temperament, but there are a few of 'em out there that I wouldn't have a bar of because either they don't have an off switch, or they aren't biddable. Also, the difference between 0:0 and a 2:1 hip scores simply be how the dog was positioned for the X-rays, or who did the reading and how they were feeling on the day. In my years in WA there was a group trying to do Lab rescue, but I think they gave up cause they rarely found any dogs to rescue . . . the demand for Labs is far greater than the supply . . . between toilet paper adds and Guide Dogs you have a huge built in PR campaign. Really? So at the other end that could be the difference between above and below the breed average..... We paid $600 for Jackson in '98. Milly was 'free' to a good home (not that they screened me or anything lol). I'd be happy to pay $1500 for a good dog and a good relationship with the breeder. If all goes to plan this next dog will be with me until my 4th decade - given that I pay more in rent each month to me the initial cost is not a priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilli_star Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 In my years in WA there was a group trying to do Lab rescue, but I think they gave up cause they rarely found any dogs to rescue . . . the demand for Labs is far greater than the supply . . . between toilet paper adds and Guide Dogs you have a huge built in PR campaign. Which can only be a good thing. And the demand greater than supply, another reason why prices are following an upward trend! Unfortunately that's not the case in NSW. Just ask Amanda at Labradog Rescue As RubyStar said, puppies are a LOT of work- I had never had a puppy as a 'grownup' before, and it definitely was a lot harder than I expected! Don't discount getting an older pup or even an adult dog just because you have kids. You might find it will actually be a whole lot easier and that it will fit into your family a lot better. Sometimes breeders also have older dogs that have proven unsuitable for breeding or showing, but have still grown up withn a family environment, are toilet trained, have some obedience etc. Of course at the end of the day, it's up to you. I have to say though that I don't think I will go down the puppy route again in a hurry, but would more likely consider an older dog either through rescue, or a breeder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Yeah but aren't all puppys Yes, most puppies go through the destructive/nipping/biting/toilet training/etc. stage but the difference with a larger breed, like a Labrador notorious for being handfuls as pups, is significant. We just want you to be sure of what you are getting into when you have 4 small young children who are at an age that will take up a lot of your time and are small enough to get hurt by a Lab puppy. I don't have kids myself but I have read in the Lab Thread people asking advice on how to get their Lab puppies to stop nipping their kids and hang off their clothes, and their kids were becoming scared of the puppy. In a lot of cases, the poor dog ends up being left outside because the family just can't cope with its behaviour and don't find a way to train it out of them Rewind back almost 5 years ago, I brought home my first ever Lab puppy. She bowled my then 2 year old niece over many times which ended in tears, she nicked off with my shoes, sunnies, anything I was silly enough to leave within her reach and she thought it was a hoot to run around with it playing keepy-off!! If I chased her, I never got it back. If I didn't chase her, she would chew it up. She also knocked over my parents outdoor fountain and it broke to smithereens - just so thankful it didn't fall on her! She got into the bin and ate glad wrap at 9 weeks old just as mum put it in there - was hit with an x-ray bill within a week of her being home! She would pull me over to see other dogs at obedience class and reduced me to tears on many occasions because I couldn't control her. Labs just LOVE other dogs and people so it takes a lot of work to stop them doing this. Meanwhile, my parents have recently gotten a miniature schnauzer pup. Yes she has to be toilet trained and trained manners like any other dog, but general puppy behaviour is so much easier to control. I have nieces and nephews aged 2-7 years old and she cannot bowl them over and hurt them. They all sit on the floor playing with her and her toys. She snuggles in their lap when tired and they love it! She takes off with any shoes in sight but her tiny little mouth doesn't do any damage, oh and we can easily catch her and get them off her! So we aren't really that diligent about keeping things out of her reach because she doesn't really do anything to them. She only weighs a few kilos so can't pull my mum's arm off at obedience to say hello to other dogs. Anyway I just wanted to leave you with a few things to think about because I just want to help you make an informed choice. If it is definitely a puppy you are after, I strongly suggest looking at smaller breeds that will be more manageable with 4 small children. And if it is a Lab you are definitely after, don't discount an older rescue or ex-show dog from a breeder If you want any more advice, feel free to PM me. I hope you don't take offence to the advice I have offered, I just have your family and the breed's best interests at heart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suziwong66 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 RS I think you've adequately described the challenge of lab puppies. I'm adding a video of Wilbur (17 weeks) taken today. Two to three times a day he has a silly period...This video is his late in the day silly period. He and i had been playing in back yard; it was nice and civilised. Then my OH came home and Wilbur just lost any sense of self control. Although I'm laughing when Wilbur jumps on me (i'm sitting on the grass with the camcorder) it's really hard and rough and very difficult to stop him. The force of him running into a child would result in at best tears. Wilbur has done puppy school and is a beginner obedience schooler. For his age he's very well trained; i spend a lot of time training him...but he's still a puppy and learning self regulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trinabean Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Yeah but aren't all puppys Yes, most puppies go through the destructive/nipping/biting/toilet training/etc. stage but the difference with a larger breed, like a Labrador notorious for being handfuls as pups, is significant. We just want you to be sure of what you are getting into when you have 4 small young children who are at an age that will take up a lot of your time and are small enough to get hurt by a Lab puppy. I don't have kids myself but I have read in the Lab Thread people asking advice on how to get their Lab puppies to stop nipping their kids and hang off their clothes, and their kids were becoming scared of the puppy. In a lot of cases, the poor dog ends up being left outside because the family just can't cope with its behaviour and don't find a way to train it out of them Rewind back almost 5 years ago, I brought home my first ever Lab puppy. She bowled my then 2 year old niece over many times which ended in tears, she nicked off with my shoes, sunnies, anything I was silly enough to leave within her reach and she thought it was a hoot to run around with it playing keepy-off!! If I chased her, I never got it back. If I didn't chase her, she would chew it up. She also knocked over my parents outdoor fountain and it broke to smithereens - just so thankful it didn't fall on her! She got into the bin and ate glad wrap at 9 weeks old just as mum put it in there - was hit with an x-ray bill within a week of her being home! She would pull me over to see other dogs at obedience class and reduced me to tears on many occasions because I couldn't control her. Labs just LOVE other dogs and people so it takes a lot of work to stop them doing this. Meanwhile, my parents have recently gotten a miniature schnauzer pup. Yes she has to be toilet trained and trained manners like any other dog, but general puppy behaviour is so much easier to control. I have nieces and nephews aged 2-7 years old and she cannot bowl them over and hurt them. They all sit on the floor playing with her and her toys. She snuggles in their lap when tired and they love it! She takes off with any shoes in sight but her tiny little mouth doesn't do any damage, oh and we can easily catch her and get them off her! So we aren't really that diligent about keeping things out of her reach because she doesn't really do anything to them. She only weighs a few kilos so can't pull my mum's arm off at obedience to say hello to other dogs. Anyway I just wanted to leave you with a few things to think about because I just want to help you make an informed choice. If it is definitely a puppy you are after, I strongly suggest looking at smaller breeds that will be more manageable with 4 small children. And if it is a Lab you are definitely after, don't discount an older rescue or ex-show dog from a breeder If you want any more advice, feel free to PM me. I hope you don't take offence to the advice I have offered, I just have your family and the breed's best interests at heart A very good, thoughtful post Rubystar. Very relevant to anyone with kids looking at one of the larger, more boisterous breeds. Although I'm raising a boxer pup I can really relate to the challenges you faced with your Lab five years ago! My youngest child is 5 years old and with the benefit of hindsight I think I would have been better off waiting a little longer to get a puppy. Big, bouncing boofer of a third child that he is..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 (edited) Suzi, Wilbur is gorgeous A bit like my nutcase Ruby was when she was a puppy! I've only experienced the one Lab puppy, as I got Millie as an adult rescue (and have never regretted it!). I'm looking forward to my next nutcase Labrador but this time round I am more prepared, and I am still childless! I remember when the family would visit with the young kids, they would keep telling me to put Ruby outside as she was too boisterous. But how was she supposed to learn how to behave around people and kids if I did that? So I refused, even though it made me unpopular with the family who didn't have any patience for a big boisterous pup. Instead, I sat on the floor with her with a lead on and encouraged calmness. A lot of people forget to do this and its such a basic thing to teach inside manners! Just takes a bit of time and patience. Now the kids just get whacked in the face with their madly wagging tails! Edited October 17, 2011 by RubyStar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suziwong66 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Suzi, Wilbur is gorgeous A bit like my nutcase Ruby was when she was a puppy! I've only experienced the one Lab puppy, as I got Millie as an adult rescue (and have never regretted it!). I'm looking forward to my next nutcase Labrador but this time round I am more prepared, and I am still childless! I remember when the family would visit with the young kids, they would keep telling me to put Ruby outside as she was too boisterous. But how was she supposed to learn how to behave around people and kids if I did that? So I refused, even though it made me unpopular with the family who didn't have any patience for a big boisterous pup. Instead, I sat on the floor with her with a lead on and encouraged calmness. A lot of people forget to do this and its such a basic thing to teach inside manners! Just takes a bit of time and patience. Now the kids just get whacked in the face with their madly wagging tails! Yes lab pups learning to be around kids just doesn't happen without a great deal of puppy supervision We had a four turning 5 year old and 8 turning 9 year old when we got our first lab. It was a lot of work teaching Casper to be gentle with the girls...and to be honest he was still like a boisterous puppy at 10 years old....although he had better self control by then. Wilbur is totally spoiled; i'm not working atm and i can (and do) devote my day to him most of the time We get in about 3 small training sessions and one larger one every day; and i'm constantly getting him to use his learned behaviours to maintain them. I think the media have a lot to answer for in creating the myth that labs just turn into these lovely calm family/service dogs. The reality is so far from that; there's a lot of daily work that occurs. Time and patience as you say is such an important factor in their 'manners' training. We're thinking of a second lab pup in a few years...i need a bit of a gap to make sure Wilbur and i have built a strong foundation of training before i start all over again with another one. Even though they learn quickly and are people motivated i've found them much more work than our first family dog; a German Shepherd. Keiran our GS grew out of the boisterous puppy stage by about 2yrs...but not our dear old Casper....and i'm guessing Wilbur will still be a goose, even though a well trained one, by that stage too Wilbur is really mouthy/bity...i don't remember Casper being this bad, but he was a baby 14 years ago so i've probably forgotten it Both Miss19 and i have experienced Wilbur drawing blood When he's calm he's just beautiful...but he's really only calm late at night when he's allowed out of his crate to come and lay next to me on the lounge. it's our quiet time. The rest of the time he's like an energiser bunny on crack I'm in agreement with you about not recommending a lab puppy for the OT due to the number and ages of the kids. I'm concerned it would be a recipe for disaster with a boisterous puppy growing fast into a boisterous and very sturdy and heavy dog. I can't imagine such busy parents having the time to devote to training a lab puppy; it's such a full on job. A mature lab would be a better option IMO. If I had been a child when Wilbur ran into me like he did in the video, i'd be flat on my back. He hit me with such force and he's just playing and having fun. He has no concept of his power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wantsapuppy Posted October 17, 2011 Author Share Posted October 17, 2011 No offense taken I really appreciate the honesty that's what I'm here for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I've copped what felt like it would no doubt turn into a black eye when I've had my head too close to the ground. Ruby was playing with me and whacked me with full force, her skull into my cheekbone. OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! On the flip side, this is what Crazy Labs turn into with maturity and training Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suziwong66 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I've copped what felt like it would no doubt turn into a black eye when I've had my head too close to the ground. Ruby was playing with me and whacked me with full force, her skull into my cheekbone. OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! On the flip side, this is what Crazy Labs turn into with maturity and training that's what i'm aiming for with Wilbur *sigh* atm i've still got the jeans and shirt tearing monster We're off to obedience in the morning; i'll let you know if he publicly disgraces us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wantsapuppy Posted October 17, 2011 Author Share Posted October 17, 2011 Wilbur is gorgeous and Susie gorgeous poochies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I think many people forget that Labs are a working dog and a decent sized one at that. Many would never have a border collie or kelpie as they are too full on or need too much exercise but will buy a lab without a second thought to their energy levels, especially when young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 That's probably why lab puppies are made so cute, it's a survival mechanism so their new owners don't kill them! LOL! I've had 3 Aussie Shepherd puppies in our home and never experienced any real destruction beyond a few chewed toys and iPod cables, and a spate of chewed shoes from Isaak when he was about 8 months old and discovered that brand new Rivers shoes taste really good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilmisssascha83 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 (edited) Yeah but aren't all puppys Yes, most puppies go through the destructive/nipping/biting/toilet training/etc. stage but the difference with a larger breed, like a Labrador notorious for being handfuls as pups, is significant. We just want you to be sure of what you are getting into when you have 4 small young children who are at an age that will take up a lot of your time and are small enough to get hurt by a Lab puppy. I don't have kids myself but I have read in the Lab Thread people asking advice on how to get their Lab puppies to stop nipping their kids and hang off their clothes, and their kids were becoming scared of the puppy. In a lot of cases, the poor dog ends up being left outside because the family just can't cope with its behaviour and don't find a way to train it out of them Rewind back almost 5 years ago, I brought home my first ever Lab puppy. She bowled my then 2 year old niece over many times which ended in tears, she nicked off with my shoes, sunnies, anything I was silly enough to leave within her reach and she thought it was a hoot to run around with it playing keepy-off!! If I chased her, I never got it back. If I didn't chase her, she would chew it up. She also knocked over my parents outdoor fountain and it broke to smithereens - just so thankful it didn't fall on her! She got into the bin and ate glad wrap at 9 weeks old just as mum put it in there - was hit with an x-ray bill within a week of her being home! She would pull me over to see other dogs at obedience class and reduced me to tears on many occasions because I couldn't control her. Labs just LOVE other dogs and people so it takes a lot of work to stop them doing this. Meanwhile, my parents have recently gotten a miniature schnauzer pup. Yes she has to be toilet trained and trained manners like any other dog, but general puppy behaviour is so much easier to control. I have nieces and nephews aged 2-7 years old and she cannot bowl them over and hurt them. They all sit on the floor playing with her and her toys. She snuggles in their lap when tired and they love it! She takes off with any shoes in sight but her tiny little mouth doesn't do any damage, oh and we can easily catch her and get them off her! So we aren't really that diligent about keeping things out of her reach because she doesn't really do anything to them. She only weighs a few kilos so can't pull my mum's arm off at obedience to say hello to other dogs. Anyway I just wanted to leave you with a few things to think about because I just want to help you make an informed choice. If it is definitely a puppy you are after, I strongly suggest looking at smaller breeds that will be more manageable with 4 small children. And if it is a Lab you are definitely after, don't discount an older rescue or ex-show dog from a breeder If you want any more advice, feel free to PM me. I hope you don't take offence to the advice I have offered, I just have your family and the breed's best interests at heart Well said Rubystar. I would also say don't disregard a older rescue or ex-show dog. The link that Rubystar posted is where I got my Sasha from. I told them the sort of dog I was looking for ( I was initally enquiring about a dog on their website, but not all the dogs on the website are listed as they have so many in foster homes. When I spoke with them about the type of lab I wanted the lady suggested that maybe the one on the website wasn't for me but they had another one in their care that might be perfect. She was right. Not knowing about her history and being a bit concerned as I have young nieces, friends with young babies, kids and a cat I was unsure how she would react. The first day I got her my friend was over with her 2 year old daughter. I needn't have worried, she said hello and then laid down at my feet. I since then have introduced her to my 3 year old niece who LOVES her. My niece only comes over to see Sasha and not me LOL. They play ball together and not once has Sasha knocked her over. Sasha is now 4 ( I only got her a year ago from lab rescue). The other day I introduced her to my friend's 5 week old baby. Again Sasha proved to be a little star. She said hello to the baby and then just laid down at my feet. But if the child wants to play ( i.e. play fetch, sasha will retrive it, Just usually gives it back to me instead LOL ) We have been doing obedience which I think is really important for a lab as they are soo social and they are strong. Sasha was a puller, I never knew how strong they were but they are but she is sooo much better. I can now walk her with just a leash. Labs can be great with kids but you need to make sure that you put in the time to train them. Puppies can take up a lot of time and they can nip, accidently knock over a child etc, not to mention the toilet training, eating anything and everything. LOL. I have been lucky with Sasha. I made sure I had LOTS of different toys when I got her. And straight away made sure she played with her toys. I set boundaries in the house ( I live in a share house so this was important). She has been a dream, she hasn't destroyed the house, doesn't chew on shoes or furniture etc. Also remember labs are smart. Therefore they need things to do during the day if you aren't home otherwise they will be destructive. Might do some gardening for you whilst you are out of the house LOL Again just want you to make an informed decision, it seems there are so many labs that are in rescue due to the fact that the family that initally adopted them couldn't be bothered to train them, socialise etc, or didn't have the time as they had a family. I was speaking to someone in rescue who was telling me the constant excuses they are given as to why someone is giving up their dog. Maybe a smaller dog may be better but if you really have your heart set on a lab please remember it's for life and that they do truly make a wonderful pet. If you have any questions please feel free to continue ask and I hope you and your family find the perfect dog to add to your family. :-) Edited October 18, 2011 by lilmisssascha83 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dame Aussie Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Not ALL "rare breeds" come with a hefty price tag because they are rare. Sure, some of them do, but not all. I'd say price is dependent on not only rarity, but how many in an average litter, how easy/difficult they are to whelp, and popularity. Some rare breeds just aren't popular so don't fetch a fancy price tag or they'd never be sold! Labs are popular, hence the price tag. Doesn't matter how "common" they are, they are still pretty damn popular! $1000 is no longer the average price, I would say $1200 would be the norm now, with some up to the $1500-$1600 mark. This is true pointers are rare-ish and pedigree puppies can range from $500-$1500 ($1500 being very rarely the case especially for pets) I would have thought labs were around the $1000 $1200 mark but then i dont think many or any pedigree dogs should go for less than around the $1000 mark these days because really in the grand scheme it isnt that exspensive and it can cost quite alot for a breeder to do what they do! Pointers are one breed I had in mind when I said that. Lovely dogs, but I don't think they are in the public eye enough so the average Joe doesn't really know much about Pointers! I think Aussie Shepherds were in the same boat a few years ago but their popularity has risen in recent years, as has the price tag (someone please correct me if I'm wrong ) Yeah I'd agree with that.When we got Lili (Aussie) 3 years ago we paid $600 but now they're far more than that and just recently I've started seeing them around a lot more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huskies4life88 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 I paid $67 to get my husky girl out of the pound 5 years back best decision i ever made. But i do know a friend of mine who paid $1800 for a labrador, im not sure which breeder she went to though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 People need to be aware the it IS possible to get quality pedigree dogs, complete with ongoing breeder support, for a fraction of the cost of an 8 week old puppy. Dogs that are sent back to their breeders because the original owners can no longer care for them are often rehomed at no cost to the new owner. I got a lovely Australian Shepherd girl this way, she came desexed, microchipped, vaccinated and with a very impressive main register pedigree for the cost of the transport from Perth to Melbourne. My son got a gorgeous English Setter, retired from the show ring at 18 months, for $200. There are always good pedigree dogs being retired from the ring or from breeding programs who need caring homes, and they are often at very low, or no cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 People need to be aware the it IS possible to get quality pedigree dogs, complete with ongoing breeder support, for a fraction of the cost of an 8 week old puppy. Dogs that are sent back to their breeders because the original owners can no longer care for them are often rehomed at no cost to the new owner. I got a lovely Australian Shepherd girl this way, she came desexed, microchipped, vaccinated and with a very impressive main register pedigree for the cost of the transport from Perth to Melbourne. My son got a gorgeous English Setter, retired from the show ring at 18 months, for $200. There are always good pedigree dogs being retired from the ring or from breeding programs who need caring homes, and they are often at very low, or no cost. Yep I got a very impressive and wonderful girl for nothing for the same reason. Retired desexed bitch, came to live with me to go running on the beach daily She was a wonderful girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fox Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 (edited) Find what you like and pay what it costs. When it comes to a good pup from the right breeder a few hundred dollars either way should not sway your decision. If a breeder is charging an inflated price (ie twice the average cost or more for that breed) then ask them why. If they can't give you a reasonable answer as to why then look elsewhere. *eta, 'rare' coat colour or pattern is not a reasonable answer. Edited October 19, 2011 by SecretKei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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