Neuter Ch Classes- A Question To Ask

[GRD]

Things must be different in different states re Neuter in Group. I do note in SA that the order we go into the ring with the neuters is different but the only neuter classes offered have been 18 and 18A.

I have a bitch and there have been 3 orders we go in:

Firstly after the other bitch classes and before the bitch challenge, directly after the bitch challenge and before best of breed or after best of breed.

In all shows I have entered we have gone in for neuter in group then the group winner for neuter in show

The last one is the closest to the correct order, it should be after all class eliminations (classes in breed run offs) have been completed. When there is only one class (Open Neuter), it is only terminology that is incorrect. It should be Open Neuter in Group (Show) as this is the name of class 18, same as Best Australian Bred in Group or Best Australian Bred in Show.

[GRD]

Personally I think the people who put the classes in had the right idea but they cannot be involved in running shows or else they would have put procedures in place and published them

I wrote the rules for the points system and the title and have had more experience running shows than I care to remember. The rest of the Neuter class regulations had already been in place for 9 years before the points and titles were added, and it may have incorrectly assumed that the classes would run correctly.

Seeing that there is such a variation in how the classes are being offered and the possibilty that as more clubs offer them, the more variation there could be I will draft a set of guidelines and forward them to the member bodies.

[Amstaff_Ambition]

At the show i referred to earlier there was a Best Neuter In Group and Best Neuter in Show along with all the neuter classes offered (puppy, junior, inter and open)

My boy ended up getting Best Neuter In Group and Best Intermediate Neuter In Group (yes 2 sashes with this written on it) from a lineup of all BOB neuters regardless of class, after this the other classes in group were run except for intermediate obviously as we had already won that. Now for In Show all the Neuter In Group winners went in to compete for Neuter In Show again regardless of class, winner was from the Open Class so we got to go back in again for Intermediate and won that.

As i had only entered shows that offered the 1 neuter class (open) before this show i was confused about how it would run but that's how it panned out for that show.

Is this not now other shows with multiple neuter classes offered are run?

[-Megz-]

At the show i referred to earlier there was a Best Neuter In Group and Best Neuter in Show along with all the neuter classes offered (puppy, junior, inter and open)

My boy ended up getting Best Neuter In Group and Best Intermediate Neuter In Group (yes 2 sashes with this written on it) from a lineup of all BOB neuters regardless of class, after this the other classes in group were run except for intermediate obviously as we had already won that. Now for In Show all the Neuter In Group winners went in to compete for Neuter In Show again regardless of class, winner was from the Open Class so we got to go back in again for Intermediate and won that.

As i had only entered shows that offered the 1 neuter class (open) before this show i was confused about how it would run but that's how it panned out for that show.

Is this not now other shows with multiple neuter classes offered are run?

The extra steps are incorrect as per the process as it's meant to run. There is no provision for the BNOB's to compete against each other in this way. (It's awesome they did it this way and this is the best way forward if additional points were to be offered)

For the cataloguers out there this is the Darwin Royal Group 5 Catalogue (marked from 2011 DR) This is how our catalogues look at all shows really.

http://royal.k9territory.com/17group5.pdf

You can see that both Baby Puppy's and Neuters are highlighted black, this assists the person doing challenges to identify which dogs are eligible for points and which aren't. Neuters are put after the BOB/RUBOB line but before the next breed subheading.

[oakway]

Personally I think the people who put the classes in had the right idea but they cannot be involved in running shows or else they would have put procedures in place and published them

I wrote the rules for the points system and the title and have had more experience running shows than I care to remember. The rest of the Neuter class regulations had already been in place for 9 years before the points and titles were added, and it may have incorrectly assumed that the classes would run correctly.

Seeing that there is such a variation in how the classes are being offered and the possibilty that as more clubs offer them, the more variation there could be I will draft a set of guidelines and forward them to the member bodies.

Yes and you did a dam good job.

[experiencedfun]

GRD that is great, and I wasn't having a go at anyone, it just seems from way down south that there isn't any procedures. Our Stewards association said this week that they have not been issued with anything yet.

Your interpretation is what I was thinking but after being told by two different people in the VCA Office who are also show secretaries that there is a Neuter Best In Group etc I got totally confused.

BTW I have been running large metropolitan all breeds shows with entries over 1000 for over 15 years and also gave a show secretaries lecture to aspiring show secretaries.

[GRD]

GRD that is great, and I wasn't having a go at anyone, it just seems from way down south that there isn't any procedures. Our Stewards association said this week that they have not been issued with anything yet.

Your interpretation is what I was thinking but after being told by two different people in the VCA Office who are also show secretaries that there is a Neuter Best In Group etc I got totally confused.

BTW I have been running large metropolitan all breeds shows with entries over 1000 for over 15 years and also gave a show secretaries lecture to aspiring show secretaries.

In order that a guide to the neuter classes is as comprehensive possible, could those of you in different states please send me a copy of a catalogue (a single breed will be enough) where both the entire and neuter classes are listed. Everyone seems to have their own way of doing catalogues and it would be a great help to see exactly how the neuters are been listed.

Thanks

Graham

[angelsun]

I get that there isn't really Neuter in Group but Open Neuter in Group and as such, like the other 'normal' classes, doesn't get any points but although Open in Show doesn't gather any extra points either....it's VERY frustrating to be offered ONLY Open Neuter classes, go Best Neuter in show and still just come away with 6 points. I understand that the two types of competition must run the same and as such the same point system applies.....I"m simply whinging and saying that it just doesn't seem fair (stomps foot) No worries..I'll get over it!

30 some odd points to go!