New Legislation Apparently Hasn't Changed The World

[SpotTheDog]

Two dog attacks in two days in the Age - one a toddler bitten by the family's malamute, the second a child on a swing bitten by the family's Staffie.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/second-child-mauled-by-pet-dog-20111014-1lnsq.html

Deary me, I thought this new legislation was changing everything? I thought it was solving the 'dog bite problem'?

A four-year-old girl has been taken to hospital after her pet dog bit her on the head in Melbourne’s outer east this morning, the second dog attack on a young child in as many days.

Paramedics said the girl was playing on a swing in her backyard in Mooroolbark when the dog, believed to be a Staffordshire terrier, attacked her just before 11am.

‘‘The dog briefly latched onto the girl and caused quite a deep wound on her forehead which extends into her hair,’’ advanced life support paramedic Margaret Harris said.

Advertisement: Story continues below ‘‘Her mother remained very calm which helped keep the girl calm until we arrived.’’

Ms Harris said the girl was given pain relief through an inhaler and nasal spray to calm her down.

‘‘The pain relief drugs helped settle her and she was actually sleepy as she was taken to the Royal Children’s Hospital in a stable condition,’’ Mrs Harris said.

It comes less than 24 hours after a toddler was bitten on the top of the head and on her cheek by her family’s pet dog at a home in Werribee.

The 16-month-old girl suffered a five-centimetre gash to the top of the head and a one-centimetre wound under her left eye.

That dog is believed to be a Malamute and is understood to have been a long-time pet of the family’s.

Paramedic Michael Garland said the girl’s parents used face washers to stem the bleeding before help arrived about 5.30pm.

‘‘As you could imagine both the mother and father were very upset along with the child,’’ Mr Garland said.

‘‘We loaded the girl and her mother into the back of the ambulance before dressing the wounds to the child’s head with a pad and bandage.

‘‘Once we had controlled the bleeding our biggest concern was trying to console the child as much as possible and keep her nice and calm.

‘‘With her mother’s help we managed to calm her and she actually slept most of the way to the Royal Children’s Hospital.’’

Mr Garland said the incident could have been a lot worse given the circumstances.

‘‘Thankfully her mother was with her at the time it happened. So it wasn’t as though she had been left alone with the animal either. As her mother said, it all happened so quickly,’’ he said.

The attack comes two weeks after the end of an amnesty period for owners to register dangerous dog breeds in Victoria.

The state government introduced the amnesty after the death of four-year-old Ayen Chol, who was killed by a neighbour’s pitbull mastiff after it ran into the girl’s St Albans house in August.

[laneka]

It will not change until humans change and start being responsible for their dogs and stop thinking 'it will never happen to me and my dog would not do that' It is not a dog problem but like everything else it is a human problem.

[grumpette]

So very true Laneka.

Socialise, supervise at all times, in all settings, and train your dogs, regardless of size and breed.

If you cannot put in the time, if you cannot make the commitment, if you cannot ensure that they are secure and under control at all times, get a bloody pet rock.

[RubyBlue]

It will not change until humans change and start being responsible for their dogs and stop thinking 'it will never happen to me and my dog would not do that' It is not a dog problem but like everything else it is a human problem.

Agreed! I personally recon my dog would be fine with kids but its never worth the risk in testing that theory - it only takes one wrong move.

I feel sorry for the parents but in both these cases it was their responsibility to keep both their child and dog safe.

Edited October 14, 2011 by RubyBlue

[KatrinaM]

Are you trying to say people shouldn't have their childen around dogs, even while supervised?

[Cat]

It doesn't really say they were supervised.

[Squinter]

‘‘Thankfully her mother was with her at the time it happened. So it wasn’t as though she had been left alone with the animal either. As her mother said, it all happened so quickly,’’ he said.

Not sure about the Mally one but the staffie one was supervised. The mum was in the yard with the child and family pet.

[Hafhafa Hounds]

‘‘Thankfully her mother was with her at the time it happened.

"With her..." does NOT = supervised!!!

JMHO

[TheCoat]

It's all well and good to blame the parents and lack of supervision and training/socialising the dogs, but what if it's just a crap dog with a poor temperament, that happens too? Sure there a precuations to be taken with dogs and kids, but kids not getting bitten by family dogs is not always good management, it can be having good dogs of stable temperament with a high threshold to aggression.

[Horse2008]

If the dogs were 'long term family pets' the parents would've known if they were unstable. At this point, I don't think it's a good idea to place blame, the parents blaming themselves is punishment enough.

There always have been and there always will be accidents, don't try to blame the dog alone, sometimes it is a surprise. It's NOT all their fault, unless the kid's parents are all powerful and all knowing. Surprises will always happen, it's part of being human.

It doesn't help that the government's legislation only blames one type of dog. It's not the dog's fault, having the dog killed or permanently muzzled won't fix anything. It's all the adults responsibility to keep the child from harm, EDUCATE them so it doesn't happen again.

[Steve]

Some times though its about the lack of understanding and eductation of the owner.We have discussions like this and we assume the adults who are supervising have a brain.

I remember a couple of years ago going to visit a friend who had a GSD - beautiful dog appeared to be well trained with good manners. Wasnt used to kids. Until the kids there that evening started to move then I watched as she chased and grabbed the small kids and tried to pull them down. Gave growls and was stalking them as they tried to duck her.The owner and most of the other adults there laughed and enjoyed it because they felt the dog was so good with kids and was playing with them.All I could see was any minute some kids was going to be really hurt.

My kids who have been around dogs all of their lives picked it in a minute and sat down and watched with me - I said that dog isnt playing its going to hurt one of those kids explained the body language I was seeing and that didnt make me very popular but it was really upsetting me - sure enough before the evenng do was over a 4 year old had to be taken to hospital to have stitches in her face - another had a nip on her leg but 'never mind the dog was just playing and didnt mean to hurt the kid' ive always remember that evening when I think of telling adults to supervise the dog with the kids because that night there were a dozen adults there who not only didnt have a bloody clue but who set the kids up for a bite and who wanted to argue that I was just paranoid.

[Hafhafa Hounds]

...because that night there were a dozen adults there who not only didnt have a bloody clue but who set the kids up for a bite ...

That's my point... Adults being THERE does NOT always = constant & vigilant supervision...

and honestly, from the description given in the media article, we can't tell an awful lot, can we? So it's a bit silly to make assumptions.

[sandgrubber]

Not to sound callous, but BFD. It's hardly news that a family dog bites one of the children in the family. It's usually a toddler. The bite is usually to the face. Often a few stitches are required. The adults should have supervised but didn't. For each child who gets bitten, there are a hundred who spend unsupervised time with the family dog and don't get bitten. I've had a small scar for fifty some years from a face bite I got as a toddler. My mother drank too much. My father worked all the time. It's going to take more than 'education' to prevent such accidents from happening . . . just as it will take more than 'education' to prevent siblings from beating each other up and occasionally breaking bones (I got bitten by a dog, yah, but I also broke my brother's arm . . . Mum was drunk . . . hence not attentive . . . and we could go on with the story about how she became alcoholic . . . yatta yatta yatta).

Sounds to me like the journos are in a mood to whip up the anti-dog mood created by a horrid fatal attack.

[KatrinaM]

Exactly Sandgrubber. Till we know all the facts we can't judge and the media are sometimes very careless with the truth.

[Erny]

It's hardly news that a family dog bites one of the children in the family.

It would have been rare news, if it occurred 30 or 40 years ago. Back then, parents were respected by their children. To hear "s/he won't do what s/he is told" would have been a rarity and it would have been regarded as shocking news. It was in my neighbourhood and hang-out places, anyway. We weren't subservient kids, we weren't afraid of our parents and we had a lot of freedom. But if Mum or Dad said "this is the way you should interact with the pup/dog", then that's the way we did it. I don't remember having to be told more than once and maybe one reminder if we forgot ourselves in fun. I don't remember Mum and Dad stopping me from playing with our first pup (I would have been about 8yo, I think). I also don't remember EVER copping a nip/mouthing or any trouble from the pup. So I guess they must have been around to supervise to some extent. That, or because it was my brother's pup (he was about 11 or 12 then) perhaps my brother was responsible enough to make sure that everything was as everything should be. We also weren't blocked into a postage stamp sized yard either. Times have changed. People need to adjust if they're going to have dogs in their lives.

Edited October 15, 2011 by Erny

[sandgrubber]

It's hardly news that a family dog bites one of the children in the family.

It would have been rare news, if it occurred 30 or 40 years ago. Back then, parents were respected by their children. To hear "s/he won't do what s/he is told" would have been a rarity and it would have been regarded as shocking news. It was in my neighbourhood and hang-out places, anyway. We weren't subservient kids, we weren't afraid of our parents and we had a lot of freedom. But if Mum or Dad said "this is the way you should interact with the pup/dog", then that's the way we did it. I don't remember having to be told more than once and maybe one reminder if we forgot ourselves in fun. I don't remember Mum and Dad stopping me from playing with our first pup (I would have been about 8yo, I think). I also don't remember EVER copping a nip/mouthing or any trouble from the pup. So I guess they must have been around to supervise to some extent. That, or because it was my brother's pup (he was about 11 or 12 then) perhaps my brother was responsible enough to make sure that everything was as everything should be. We also weren't blocked into a postage stamp sized yard either. Times have changed. People need to adjust if they're going to have dogs in their lives.

I agree with the sentiment but not the literal words, and I don't think that everyone had the benefit of parents as good as yours. It would not have been news that someone got bitten by a family dog 30 to 80 years ago. Or a century ago. Or two centuries ago. Find a copy of James Thurber's classic short story (1933) entitled "The dog who bit people" about a nasty-tempered Airdale named Muggs (go to http://sites.google.com/site/thurberworks/ if that doesn't work, try http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3c-GOjV911A&feature=related for a reading). It used to be that dog bites were sh#t that happened, apologies were made, there was a bit of brown nose-ing, and people got over it. A dog is a risk. You can drastically reduce that risk by selecting the dog, training the dog, and keeping an eye on what's going on. But nothing is gained by blaming the people, the dog, the breed, or whatever. Better to learn from the experieince and get on with it. As I've noted elsewhere: Napoleon was scarred by life by his wife's pug, Fortune, on his wedding night.

I think that dogs who seriously attack or kill, ie. consider children or adults as prey, are a different kettle of fish. I've never met such a dog, but if they exist, I vote PTS, and go after whoever bred them. But the ordinary dog, who may bite out of fear or misplaced attempts to play, or incompetent protection .. . may draw blood . . . chances of killing or seriously maiming are well below the dangers of a parent or sibling or lover killing the child, sibling, or lover.

[Steve]

but 30 years ago in my neighbourhood if you wanted your dog to stay safe you were repsonsible for it and accepted the consequences if you didnt

If you had a dog that ate the neighbours chooks you might get one chance but if it happened again the dog was put down. Dogs who werent kid friendly stayed at home and every kid knew where they were and which ones to stay away from and if they were percieved to be a threat past a potential nip stage the dog was gone.

[TheCoat]

Where I grew up, a lot of the neighbourhood dogs would roam around the street, the dog across the road spent more time at our place playing out the front with the kids than at home. He used to follow us to the shop after school learning we bought lollies and we would give him one, but he was a good dog, never remember any aggression from him. There was a bi colour GSD up the corner who would sometimes jump the front fence and bail us up, but just bark at us until the old lady who owned him came out and yelled out to the dog to get inside. We used to call him "socks" he was black with tan legs, but we used to see him laying on the porch and yell out "socks is on the porch" and run, then he would see us, chase us for a bark and hold??. There was a collie X and couple of Labs who would float around the street, they were all ok and we used to pat them, never recall anyone getting bitten. There was one in the street behind us that bit a couple kids on bikes riding past was about the only dog bite we heard of?.

When I was about 5 or 6 we had a black Lab, she was a cronic licker, I would lay on the floor and she would would give me bath and slobber all over me, she was bullet proof aggression wise, but I can't remember that I was supervised too much with her?. Mum taught her the command "enough" and if she was silly or giving you a lick attack and yelled "enough", she would stop. Perhaps we were lucky, perhaps the dogs were more relaxed back then???.

We used to have a dog catcher I remember, he had a light blue panel van with the whirly bird things on the roof that the dog trailers have used to have a cruise around and pick up the roaming dogs. Not that it kept the dogs in much, they would get picked up, collected from the pound at let out to roam again, but the dog catcher or ranger in the area was common, haven't seen a ranger cruising around for years??

Maybe the aggressive dogs were scooped up by the ranger, there were definitely dog catcher patrols often around the streets all those years ago. There were no leash rules and if a loose dog was with someone, they didn't pick them up. I remember telling the dog catcher the dog from across the road was ours when out the front playing???.

Edited October 16, 2011 by TheCoat

[espinay2]

I don't think we ever saw a ranger where we were. It was also a case of you take responsibility for your dogs actions. I remember clearly when we were kids (over 30 years ago) we were at my grandparents for a BBQ with family and friends. We were playing a game of backyard cricket and in the excitement my grandparents dog bit a family friend on the leg (I recall one bite but it did break the skin). As a result my grandparents made the decision fairly quickly to put the dog to sleep. No one blamed anyone (it was always considered an accident due to the high excitement of the game and person and dog getting tangled up going for the ball) but my grandparents decided with lots of grandkids around that was not a risk they wanted to take. As Steve said, in those days if a dog was going to progress past the nip stage (i.e. limited bite inhibition), the dog was gone.

[Mags]

It seemed to me when we were growing up, and I'm 50, everyone had dogs (and other pets for that matter) and we were trained early never to approach a dog we didn't know, don't ever pat someone else's dog without permission. Now part of that was about the risk of hydatids & keeping us safe from dog bites I'm sure but it was also about having manners and treating the dogs and their owners with respect.

These days how often do you see small children, encouraged by their parents I might add, run up to strange dogs flapping hands around or poking or slapping at them with the toy in their hand or .... and then run off squealing. My dogs try and ignore them as they are more interested in their walk but people go on about muzzled greys scaring people - I walk a muzzled grey and people are still happy to have their children run up to her squealing and poking (no idea of how to pat a dog)and then run off. Doesn't seem to occur to the parent to calmly walk over to us with their child and ask if its OK to pat my dogs. Nor does it seem to occur to the parent that I might not be interested in what their child wants and I might prefer that they didn't pat my dogs.

I do wonder how many bites are caused by a total disconnect between people and companion animals that we didn't see back then. Though I do know that where I grew up dog or people aggressive behaviour would not have been tolerated.

Edited October 16, 2011 by Mags