What To Give For Hd?

[Fynesse]

I have been reading up about it for hours on end and have discovered that its not a death sentence and can be managed. However, after reading extensively through threads on here and other forums, Im not completely lost as to what are the best additives. I think Ive been sold on Ester C and bought some yesterday, however I think I need to give more. Ive been looking at Technyflex, Glyde, Joint Guard, Sashas blend and I just dont know what is the best!!!!

From anyone who is using any of the above, comments, opinions on what is the best (or worthless) muchly appreciated.

Edited October 20, 2011 by Fynesse

[Nekhbet]

I found that the Ethical Nutrients high strength liquid fish oil and the Vets All Natural joint powder combined were the best. You need a capful per dog of the fish oil.

Everything else was just too expensive for me to use long term as I had a 50kg dog, and they did the same if not less then the two products I used.

[espinay2]

First thing - if you have been reading the threads here you will understand the importance of a correct diagnosis when it comes to suspecting HD. Make sure you get the x-rays sent to a specialist radiologist before making any major decisions for the dog.

Note that when it comes to symptoms, every dog is different and may require a different regime of treatment. that said, there are a wide range of treatments and products available and that can certainly be confusing for an owner.

The way I have always approached it is to use a 'stepped' approach to management, using the different steps as the dogs condition dictates. In this manner I have managed, for example, a dog with a hip score of 65 who remained mobile and happy until 10 years of age (when she passed from a totally unrelated condition). Note this is only one example, but as you say, shows that a diagnosis of HD isnt necessarily a death sentence.

The 'steps' I used were as follows:

Step 1 - Basic Management. Keep the dog lean throughout its life as this puts less stress on the joints. Also keep the dog active within its limitations. Remember that good muscle helps support the joints and keep them functioning. Good muscle helps to keep them in the socket. Swimming is a great exercise for a dog with HD.

Step 2 - Dietary Support. A good dies will assist. Personally I believe in a raw diet to provide excellent nutrition to any dog. Raw meaty bones which include cartilage which is useful in supporting joints. Whatever your views, feed the best diet you can nutritionally.

Step 3 - Basic Supplementary Support. In the early stages this is the first 'extra' thing I add to the regime of a dog with HD. Vit C (esther-C is most recommended but any Vit C will get you there if you can't get it), Fish oil and Glucosamine. Vit C is given 'to tolerance' (ok, so that is the theory. In practice I simply add about a teaspoon once the dog is used to it!) - start with a small dose and increase until bowel motions go a bit soft, then back off a little. Tolerance for more does develop over time. Fish oil would depend on the size of the dog. For my large dogs about 2 capsules a day. If you give more (I have given upto 4 a day), add Vit E as well (Vit E deficiency as a result of high doses of fish oil can mimic HD symptoms). Supplements containing Glucosamine vary greatly - go with whatever one suits you and your budget. I always used the powdered supplement for humans or straight Glucosamine capsules (red bottle - can't remember brand).

Step 4 - if your dog is showing pain and needs more than the above, the next step I take is Cartrophen injections. After the initial 4 injections you give another at whatever interval suits your dog. It can be 12 months, 6 months, 3 months etc. 6 months is average.

Step 5 - If the dog needs a bit extra after being on the cartropen injections, I have then added buffered asprin (AS DISCUSSED WITH AND DOSAGE PROVIDED BY MY VET - ALWAYS CONSULT YOUR VET BEFORE ADMINISTERING ASPRIN TO YOUR DOG). This assists in pain relief, but allows you to save the 'bigger guns' for later when they are really needed. Note buffered asprin can be a bit harder to get these days and generally comes only in small doses (designed for human heart patients). Makes giving to a large dog more difficult as you need more tablets per dose, but not impossible. Buffered is preferred as it reduces irritation to the stomach lining.

Step 6 - Non Steroidal Anti Inflammatories (NSAID's). There is a wide range of types of these available. Previcox, Metacam, Rymadil, CU-algesic (not really given for dogs any more) etc etc. Make sure you are fully informed of the pros and cons of the type your vet is recommending and prescribing. I tend to save these for last when the dog is not responding as well to the previous steps any more. They may be needed sooner or later depending on the dog. I try to save these 'big guns' for last when they are needed the most rather than using them early and building 'tolerance'. OVer time you may need to increase dosage with the advice and assistance of your vet.

As mentioned, different dogs may go to different steps at different times. But these are the basic steps I have personally used in the cases I have dealt with and I find it has been a useful protocol. As always discuss and consult with your vet on what is suitable for your dog.

[Fynesse]

Thank you for all the info and help! Its very much appreciated.

Edited October 20, 2011 by Fynesse

[Nekhbet]

I would also be taking him to a very good dog chiropractor ASAP

[rajacadoo]

espinay2 thank you very much for that detailed response, I for 1 have really been interested in your way of dealing with it

Fynesse I wish you all the luck in the world, with getting his pain etc, under control ...

[Fynesse]

Yep, Im on the hunt for a chiro as well!!

[Chris the Rebel Wolf]

Green lipped mussel is glucousamine - that's one of the things it has in it. Also chontroitin and omega 3s. A lot of the joint projects like Joint Guard and Sashas have these as well as MSM which reduces inflammation.

I find with my customers, and as the owner of an arthritic dog, that different brands of joint health products have different results for different people I usually encourage customers to try a few different brands and they often find one that stands out for their dog.

[Nekhbet]

I used just under a capful for my 24kg bitch. You cannot go too wrong with it it's a natural product.

My difference is Cartrophen didnt work for either of my dogs at all. NSAIDs I reserve only for emergency use as they did nothing useful for either of my dogs. Pain to a degree can be a good thing - it lets the dog know it needs to not push itself and damage itself further.

Unfortunately I lost my Rottie to this a few weeks ago, saying that the dog had a collapsed hock, no hip sockets and extreme ED. At 50kg he was just too heavy to hold himself up for more then 4 years. I found chiropractic, acupuncture and exercise like wading/swimming to be the best thing for both him and my previous GSD.

[Fynesse]

Thanks for the help Nekhbet. Im very sorry to hear about your rottie

Angus is looking great this morning, tearing around the backyard with the puppy, SO.... fish oil, Ester C and some form of joint guard (Chris, thanks for clearing that up for me re: mussels etc).

Again, thanks for all the help, it is greatly appreciated.

Edited October 20, 2011 by Fynesse

[espinay2]

Something that some may find of interest for cases of dogs with severe HD in particular is this article on Exercise and the Dysplastic Pup. I don't have access to the original work by Phaffenberger, so if anyone finds a copy please let me know as I would be interested to read it!

Fynesse, you can up the dose of Vit C as quickly as your dog tolerates it. If things get a bit 'loose' coming out the other end back up for a while and go a bit slower. IF all is good, what you are doing is fine. With a dog that weight I would start with one fish oil cap a day and probably wouldn't go more than two. If you give two regularly I would be adding a bit of Vit E every now and again (either a capsule or add a spoon of something like wheatgerm oil every so often.)

Agree - glucosamine is the 'end product'. Green lipped mussel is one source of glucosamine.

Glad what I wrote was useful. As mentioned, every dog will be different. I have found though that setting it out this way allows me to consider each step as I go along in a logical fashion so I can better assess what the individual dog needs and when it needs it.

[Chris the Rebel Wolf]

I really like GLM as a source of glucasamine, being a natural product. If you can find the Ziwipeak treats/food around, they are FANTASTIC

[Mr R & NR]

Espiney, just wanted to say I thought your post was fantastic. A great way of looking a the problem and working your way through to the point that your dog needs. Excellent

[dancinbcs]

Can I ask if his parents were hip scored and what those scores were? HD does happen on BCs but isn't very common among dogs from the better ANKC breeders. Sadly it seems to be a problem in unregistered BCs.