Advice (death Of Puppy)

[Nekhbet]

parvo can live in your soil for months to a year or more did you know that? There are several viruses and bacteria that could have caused illness in this pup but without veterinary attention who knows. I've ripped car seats out because a suspected parvo puppy threw up on them.

Remember the saying - the road to hell is paved with good intentions. The pups health was not really a priority to anyone and you have now put your own breeding plans under risk by bringing an unvaccinated, unhealthy pup onto your property. No excuse can save the fact many people knew about this animal and it's downward decline yet it was allowed to die.

Edited October 10, 2011 by Nekhbet

[karly101]

I would wait until you get the results from autopsy...if it is parvo then you will need to go through a lot of cleaning - you will need to invest in some veterinary disinfectant and go over everything! Your yard won't be safe for your puppies either. Importantly, read up on parvovirus. Never underestimate the importance of quarantine of a new pup if you are interested in breeding.

It could be a number of other things - even a few vomits over a 12 hour period can kill a pup especially once its coupled with diarrhea, they can't handle that level of dehydration. The worm burden, a bacterial infection, giardia - there are a lot of possibilities. A respiratory infection would not cause vomiting or diarrhea.

[aussielover]

If it is parvo, I wouldn't plan on breeding for a few years just to be safe or replace all your lawn, carpets, whever the puppy as been etc. The stress of pregnancy can cause maternal immunity to fall in some cases and the puppies may be affected in utero- this causes a different type of illness but the puppies will be born abnormal- cerebellar and heart damage are a real possibility.

But it could be anything at this stage. Coronavirus causes similar signs to parvo, it could be a bacterial infection etc. My dog vomited 4 times over 20 mins became very flat and painful and I knew something was wrong- the vet said she would have been dead within 24-48hrs if we hadn't of intervened, unfortunately in a lot of conditions you really only have 24hrs or so to get medical treatment (even less with baby puppies) before it is too late

[RoseRed]

Well, we have spoken to three vets so far, still waiting for mine to get back from a callout. But so far, all seem to feel that it was not parvo. One suggestion is that it may have been because of worms, because my daughter used the worming stuff you get from the supermarket and one vet said that you may as well just give a pup a lolly, because the stuff from the supermarket doesn't work.

I admit I have never relied on supermarket worming mixture for my dogs, because I always felt it wasn't as good a quality as the vet stuff, but to hear that it may be pretty much useless, is pretty bad. Also, it may actually be too late for an autopsy, because the vet here would have to send the stuff off to Brisbane. But he may be able to just do a minor incision here and see if there are worms present.

Yes, Nekhbet, I did know that parvo can survive in the soil for years. But realistically we can't keep our dogs in a vacuum either. I walk my dogs every day, and anywhere they walk could have parvo in the ground, that is why you vaccinate your dogs and hope for the best. You can't lock them in a sterile room for their entire life because there is a chance that they might get parvo.

Ok yes, maybe we should have got the pup to a vet sooner. But as I mentioned, he was still eating and drinking ok, we were out of town, staying at a house in the country with a family wedding going on, so everybody was extremely busy and didn't realise straight away that the pup was actually sick. At first I assumed it was just car sickness. When he continued to be sick, I thought that maybe there was a problem and told my daughter to take him to a vet, but we still had to travel hours back home, and then she had to work. She was rostered on for the early morning shift and couldn't get anybody to fill in for her.

So yes, mistakes were made, and I feel bad enough, and she feels bad enough, and we both feel guilty enough, but thanks for kicking us while we're down.

Edited October 11, 2011 by RoseRed

[poodlefan]

So yes, mistakes were made, and I feel bad enough, and she feels bad enough, and we both feel guilty enough, but thanks for kicking us while we're down.

All I can say is that I hope your daughter learns from the death of this pup.

It had a bad start in life, she didn't do right by it and its gone. The only good that can come of this is that your daughter identifies where she went wrong and doesn't repeat the process.

And what's with the other house having an unvaccinated pup??

[Inevitablue]

Well, we have spoken to three vets so far, still waiting for mine to get back from a callout. But so far, all seem to feel that it was not parvo. One suggestion is that it may have been because of worms, because my daughter used the worming stuff you get from the supermarket and one vet said that you may as well just give a pup a lolly, because the stuff from the supermarket doesn't work.

One of the major supermarket brands of wormer is made under contract at one of the bigger pharma companies, and the same ingredients are used for both a flagship product and the supermarket brand. Rest assured, if the mg dosage, and active ingredients are the same as a well know brand then it would have done the job. Amazing how much the marketing dollar drives up the price of a product!

It's getting to learn the different active ingredients, and which ones do giardia, hydatids etc

Sorry to hear about the puppy, and I'm sure your kicking yourself for not intervening earlier. Poor little pup. I'd risk losing my job if one of my dogs were sick.

[Rileys mum]

This post makes me sad :-( poor little pup.

i really am trying hard not to be judgmental but i can't help but think that your daughter was terribly wrong to not get this pup treatment :-( I've taken days off work to take my dogs to the vet for far less than what this pup was exhibiting. there really is no acceptable excuse for leaving a young pup so long with vomiting and diarrhea. get a friend, family member, anyone to take the pup in to the vet. poor poor pup.

i think also that people are saying that if it was parvo then your property, as in soil etc will be contaminated for your future litters you are planning.

[Talien]

I'm sorry to hear of your loss, and your daughters, Rosered.

I too had a terrible experience like this once (a cat with strychnine poisoning, poor little guy ), sometimes all you can do is learn from the experience and let your heart grieve for the loss.

xoxo

[Sandra777]

It's easy to make the right decision with hindsight, but I cannot believe that someone would allow a pup to get that sick without it occurring to them that it was critically ill and even if they couldn't take the poor thing to a vet themselves, make some sort of arrangement for SOMEONE to do so.

Yes work can be difficult for some to organise around - my workplace makes it simple, I know not everyone is that fortunate.

[Inevitablue]

Well, we have spoken to three vets so far, still waiting for mine to get back from a callout. But so far, all seem to feel that it was not parvo. One suggestion is that it may have been because of worms, because my daughter used the worming stuff you get from the supermarket and one vet said that you may as well just give a pup a lolly, because the stuff from the supermarket doesn't work.

One of the major supermarket brands of wormer is made under contract at one of the bigger pharma companies, and the same ingredients are used for both a flagship product and the supermarket brand. Rest assured, if the mg dosage, and active ingredients are the same as a well know brand then it would have done the job. Amazing how much the marketing dollar drives up the price of a product!

It's getting to learn the different active ingredients, and which ones do giardia, hydatids etc

Sorry to hear about the puppy, and I'm sure your kicking yourself for not intervening earlier. Poor little pup. I'd risk losing my job if one of my dogs were sick.

[RoseRed]

One of the major supermarket brands of wormer is made under contract at one of the bigger pharma companies, and the same ingredients are used for both a flagship product and the supermarket brand. Rest assured, if the mg dosage, and active ingredients are the same as a well know brand then it would have done the job. Amazing how much the marketing dollar drives up the price of a product!

It's getting to learn the different active ingredients, and which ones do giardia, hydatids etc

Sorry to hear about the puppy, and I'm sure your kicking yourself for not intervening earlier. Poor little pup. I'd risk losing my job if one of my dogs were sick.

Thanks for that Inevatiblue ... glad to hear that the ingredients should still be ok

[RoseRed]

So yes, mistakes were made, and I feel bad enough, and she feels bad enough, and we both feel guilty enough, but thanks for kicking us while we're down.

All I can say is that I hope your daughter learns from the death of this pup.

It had a bad start in life, she didn't do right by it and its gone. The only good that can come of this is that your daughter identifies where she went wrong and doesn't repeat the process.

And what's with the other house having an unvaccinated pup??

Yes, I think she has definitely learnt a hard lesson poodlefan. And I'm sure she will never make the same mistake again.

The other house only got their pup about five days ago, and simply hasn't got around to vaccinating it yet. The person who sold it to them, sold it unvaccinated

It is upsetting that other breeders are selling pups unvaccinated (something I would never do), and it is upsetting that people are being slack and not getting pups vaccinated straight away. I guess people think it won't happen to them and think they'll get it done when they have some more time, or when they have some more money. But as this shows, it CAN happen and if you don't get a pup vaccinated ASAP then it is sometimes too late.

It's very sad. Believe me I wish people were more careful, but what can you do? If I know somebody has an unvaccinated pet, I strongly encourage them to sort it out, but you can't hold a gun to their head.

[Podengo]

RIP little puppy

[poodlefan]

So yes, mistakes were made, and I feel bad enough, and she feels bad enough, and we both feel guilty enough, but thanks for kicking us while we're down.

All I can say is that I hope your daughter learns from the death of this pup.

It had a bad start in life, she didn't do right by it and its gone. The only good that can come of this is that your daughter identifies where she went wrong and doesn't repeat the process.

And what's with the other house having an unvaccinated pup??

Yes, I think she has definitely learnt a hard lesson poodlefan. And I'm sure she will never make the same mistake again.

The other house only got their pup about five days ago, and simply hasn't got around to vaccinating it yet. The person who sold it to them, sold it unvaccinated

It is upsetting that other breeders are selling pups unvaccinated (something I would never do), and it is upsetting that people are being slack and not getting pups vaccinated straight away. I guess people think it won't happen to them and think they'll get it done when they have some more time, or when they have some more money. But as this shows, it CAN happen and if you don't get a pup vaccinated ASAP then it is sometimes too late.

It's very sad. Believe me I wish people were more careful, but what can you do? If I know somebody has an unvaccinated pet, I strongly encourage them to sort it out, but you can't hold a gun to their head.

Only the irresponsible ones.. my guess is that these pups are sold at 5 or 6 weeks too.

First place I take any pup I get is the vets.. for a general check up. I'd suggest your daughter add that to her check list and that she read a couple of good books on puppy raising. Really basic errors made with this pup.

I'd be waiting 6 months before getting another one too - just to be on the safe side.

[Nekhbet]

I was not referring to your own vaccinated dogs but your dogs pups - you will want them to go out on your back lawn to start frolicking. They wont be old enough for a vaccination.

Exelpet products are not exactly lollies - I have used them for wormy dogs when nothing else was available and it did the trick for that dose. Asking what the cause of death was without an autopsy is a negligible exercise. Without proper pathology it will always be stabs in the dark.

[bonny_beagle]

Without commenting further on how the puppy situation was handled, having experience with pound puppies and with parvo I'd suggest that you would be unlucky to have problems with healthy, adult, vaccinated dogs exposed to parvo. They most likely encounter it in the environment if they go out and about anyway.

There are other things that can kill pups such as coccidia and parvo does not always present that same in every pup. Unless they do a parvo test on the bowel contents I don't know how you would determine what happened to the pup. To be safe, no unvaccinated or partially vaccinated pup should be allowed anywhere that pup has been, for 12 months, unless you get an alternative dignosis.

[Linda K]

RIP poor little puppy

[~Anne~]

Unless you use bleach or F10 you are wasting your time cleaning anything. Ask the Vet for a bottle of F10 or make a bleach mix (hopefully someone else will post ratio as my brain is dead at the moment).

It is VERY important to note that nothing else will kill parvo.

Edited October 12, 2011 by ~Anne~

[Bullytrax]

Hi RoseRed,

sorry to hear what happened.

As ~Anne~ has suggested F10 SC kills Canine Parvovirus in 20 mins after application.

Dilute 1:125, thats 8ml of F10 to 1 litre of water.

[sandgrubber]

So yes, mistakes were made, and I feel bad enough, and she feels bad enough, and we both feel guilty enough, but thanks for kicking us while we're down.

All I can say is that I hope your daughter learns from the death of this pup.

It had a bad start in life, she didn't do right by it and its gone. The only good that can come of this is that your daughter identifies where she went wrong and doesn't repeat the process.

And what's with the other house having an unvaccinated pup??

Yes, I think she has definitely learnt a hard lesson poodlefan. And I'm sure she will never make the same mistake again.

The other house only got their pup about five days ago, and simply hasn't got around to vaccinating it yet. The person who sold it to them, sold it unvaccinated

It is upsetting that other breeders are selling pups unvaccinated (something I would never do), and it is upsetting that people are being slack and not getting pups vaccinated straight away. I guess people think it won't happen to them and think they'll get it done when they have some more time, or when they have some more money. But as this shows, it CAN happen and if you don't get a pup vaccinated ASAP then it is sometimes too late.

It's very sad. Believe me I wish people were more careful, but what can you do? If I know somebody has an unvaccinated pet, I strongly encourage them to sort it out, but you can't hold a gun to their head.

so sad!

In defense, with a first puppy, especially if it was acquired by a young person from an irresponsible breeder, it's hard to know what is serious and what not. In the first litter I bred, I ended up paying a $100 vet bill for someone who took their pup to the vet cause it vomited. The diagnosis: carsickness. As a first-time breeder, I hadn't leaned not to feed the pups for a few hours before they went for a car ride. In a way I count myself lucky. If they hadn't taken the pup to the vet and it had been something serious, it could have ended tragically.

I'm sure everyone has learned some lessons -- except the person who bred the pup. Breeders take note, puppy buyers need to be reminded that sick puppies can go from sick to dead quite quickly. Do not delay in getting a sick infant puppy to the vet. Not everyone knows this automatically.