Why Do Sighthounds Tend To Be Timid/sensitive?

[Aidan3]

And here we have the fundamental problem with communicating these concepts, Rebanne. Does the dictionary definition look the same as the one I posted? Not really.

so the dictionary is wrong?

Nope. Neither are "wrong", that isn't where the problem lies.

[poodlefan]

Actually you might be surprised to know that some big winners have tested ok with cats and small dogs.

Has prior socialisation played a part?

[OSoSwift]

And here we have the fundamental problem with communicating these concepts, Rebanne. Does the dictionary definition look the same as the one I posted? Not really.

Anyone who'd say that many sighthounds aren't willing to take risks has never seen them after prey.

Ah yep, seen my dogs go through the odd fence, most electric but it was worth it when they had their eye on the ptize. In normal day to day life they will not go near that fence for quids,

[WreckitWhippet]

I have actually been working, so I'm sorry if I couldn't answer everyone's questions instantly.

Most of the questions I used in the survey have been validated by previous studies with a couple of methods. It's about as sound as survey questions in animal behaviour get. Which is not to say that it's sound.

Where were you all when my survey link was posted here if you are all the ones with sighthounds most representative of good sighthound temperament? If you did the survey, your good sighthound temperaments are in the dataset where they can do the most good. If you didn't, then talk to the hand, people.

Greytmate, I suggest you go back to page 1 or 2. I didn't answer your question because I had already answered it when you asked it. Even when you do go back and check, you will still not know what my perception of bold is because I have deliberately not told anyone. It's not a discussion I want to be involved in at this point and I won't be dragged into it.

No, I do not need your opinions, although it was nice to get them. If you are bored or annoyed, then go away. I don't feel that I have an obligation to entertain you.

I'm bowing out now, folks. Thanks again for the ideas.

Hmmm let me think about that. Reluctant to have anything that I put in a survey used against me ( or the group as a whole ) by the likes of yourself or McGreevy.

[Kirislin]

Hmmmmmm maybe this will convince you they're not timid.

[WreckitWhippet]

I don't think she'd let a personal opinion of me colour any attempt at her research though Kinsella. I think her ethics are better than that. I don't doubt she enjoys being provocative but I'd not doubt her research is objective in that sense.

but who really knows?

McGreevy's ethics are somewhere in the gutter or below. I'll be happy to tar them all with the same brush.

[raineth]

Gotta love it.

Scientist: What do you think of my hypothesis?

Sighthound folk: It's flawed.

Scientist: Who cares what you think - it's not like I need your opinions.

except Corvus actually thanked everyone and told them their input was valuable

I think it goes more like...

Dog people: we chuck tantrums when we're told stuff we don't like

You really ARE trying to stir. Yay for you. :rolleyes: I'm sure Corvus is just thrilled.

I don't enjoy seeing very limited data interpreted to generalise about different dog breeds. That's not "chucking a tanty". The only tanty chucking I've observed is from the author of the study in her last post in this thread.

Corvus admitted most of the respondents to the survey owned Greyhounds. Seems she either didn't ask or didn't note their origins.

What that's got to do with OTHER sighthounds beats me. But I'm sure that won't stop findings being published based on very little data.

She hasn't "told" us anything.

well if what I wrote classes as stirring, what you wrote most definitely does ;) - or doesn't it because you are echoing the majority of opinions here?

I will articulate what I find disappointing about many of the reactions in this thread:

I think it is always useful to consider the other point of view. We all have biases, and these biases often prevent us from seeing things as they really are. Part of challenging your bias is to neither outrightly reject or adopt an idea, but to stop and consider it.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see much of that going on here. It seems to me that the reactions have been on an emotional level.

I don't see how this sort of group think does anything to benefit our knowledge about dogs.

[Robbi]

Sighthound owners were very open and willing to give information regarding Corvus's hypothesis, nobody took great offense to such a loaded statement and were willing to give examples to prove/disprove the theory, there was no need to get annoyed when what was said didn't suit the study

I am sick of my chosen breeds of dogs being maligned by researchers and the media, I am off to take my Bold/bumptous Whippet and my sweet and gentle Bull Breed for a walk and watch the result of biased studies and media hype as people try to avoid the Bullie and pat the Whippet ;)

[raineth]

Oh, and add to that - then to dismiss our concerns as not being anything to do with proper research, or us not being interested in science, or us just being reactive, then huff off. Real productive.

nah don't blame corvus for that, that was me.

But I genuinely just meant that maybe people didn't take much notice of the survey because they don't believe science has much scope to offer insights on anything 'dog'.

I think I could be forgiven for thinking that people here are very scpetical that science can offer insights on anything "dog" from reading this thread.

I know if I see a thread on something that doesn't interest me I don't read it and therefore I probably don't remember it either.

[Aidan3]

I am sick of my chosen breeds of dogs being maligned by researchers and the media

It's certainly not the research you have to worry about. No-one seems to be paying any attention to that.

[raineth]

Sighthound owners were very open and willing to give information regarding Corvus's hypothesis, nobody took great offense to such a loaded statement and were willing to give examples to prove/disprove the theory, there was no need to get annoyed when what was said didn't suit the study

I am sick of my chosen breeds of dogs being maligned by researchers and the media, I am off to take my Bold/bumptous Whippet and my sweet and gentle Bull Breed for a walk and watch the result of biased studies and media hype as people try to avoid the Bullie and pat the Whippet ;)

do you really think people avoid your Bully because of studies?

[poodlefan]

well if what I wrote classes as stirring, what you wrote most definitely does ;) - or doesn't it because you are echoing the majority of opinions here?

I will articulate what I find disappointing about many of the reactions in this thread:

I think it is always useful to consider the other point of view. We all have biases, and these biases often prevent us from seeing things as they really are. Part of challenging your bias is to neither outrightly reject or adopt an idea, but to stop and consider it.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see much of that going on here. It seems to me that the reactions have been on an emotional level.

I don't see how this sort of group think does anything to benefit our knowledge about dogs.

Oh here we go.. its 'group think' now. I'll tell you what doesn't benefit 'our' knowledge of dogs.. skewed data interpreted from a narrow base to make a conclusion about a range of dogs, many of which were not at all well represented in the survey and some not at all. If 'bias' means rejection of conclusions based on such research and made by a person with zero personal knowledge of living with sighthounds I suppose I'm 'biased'.

I don't think my ddogs are perfect but I won't own an inaccurate statement about their temperament regardless of the credentials of who's making it.

I don't "echo" anyone's opinions thanks. I have my own. The fact that a significant number of sighthound people hold similar opinions about their dogs temperament would be considered indicative of an issue to be explored by some researchers.. rather than dismissed as 'group think'. That would be some researchers but apparently not all.

And speaking of drawing wide conclusions from a narrow base. you might like to re-examine your conclusion that people are skeptical of scientific studies of dogs because they're skeptical of Corvus's research. I know I've seen plenty of Corvus's theories about dogs on here over the years and frankly I think many of them are total rubbish but that doesn't mean I don't think science has plenty to offer my knowledge and understanding of dogs.

Not all science is "good" science now is it?

Edited October 11, 2011 by poodlefan

[poodlefan]

Sighthound owners were very open and willing to give information regarding Corvus's hypothesis, nobody took great offense to such a loaded statement and were willing to give examples to prove/disprove the theory, there was no need to get annoyed when what was said didn't suit the study

I am sick of my chosen breeds of dogs being maligned by researchers and the media, I am off to take my Bold/bumptous Whippet and my sweet and gentle Bull Breed for a walk and watch the result of biased studies and media hype as people try to avoid the Bullie and pat the Whippet ;)

do you really think people avoid your Bully because of studies?

No, they avoid the Bully because of their lack of knowledge of the studies. Where are the scientists taking a stand against Breed Specific Legislation? I can't think of anyone in this country who's expressed an opinion on the subject.

[Robbi]

No, that was an overstatement but I do think that flawed research or possibly people taking certain sections of a study and inflating its importance have done Bull Breeds nothing but harm. The bite statistics that are often quoted b the media and politicians is seriously flawed and I use for example www.dogsbite.org/dangerous-dogs-pit-bull-owners.php

I dont want the Greyhound to have any negative studies that people can twist for their own purpose.

Why dont researchers spend some time doing positive studies on dogs and highlight their strengths-Why do Sighthounds have heat seeking abilities for example?

[Aidan3]

Sighthound owners were very open and willing to give information regarding Corvus's hypothesis, nobody took great offense to such a loaded statement and were willing to give examples to prove/disprove the theory, there was no need to get annoyed when what was said didn't suit the study

I am sick of my chosen breeds of dogs being maligned by researchers and the media, I am off to take my Bold/bumptous Whippet and my sweet and gentle Bull Breed for a walk and watch the result of biased studies and media hype as people try to avoid the Bullie and pat the Whippet ;)

do you really think people avoid your Bully because of studies?

No, they avoid the Bully because of their lack of knowledge of the studies. Where are the scientists taking a stand against Breed Specific Legislation? I can't think of anyone in this country who's expressed an opinion on the subject.

Dr Kirsti Seksel wrote probably the strongest critique of BSL to date.

[poodlefan]

Sighthound owners were very open and willing to give information regarding Corvus's hypothesis, nobody took great offense to such a loaded statement and were willing to give examples to prove/disprove the theory, there was no need to get annoyed when what was said didn't suit the study

I am sick of my chosen breeds of dogs being maligned by researchers and the media, I am off to take my Bold/bumptous Whippet and my sweet and gentle Bull Breed for a walk and watch the result of biased studies and media hype as people try to avoid the Bullie and pat the Whippet ;)

do you really think people avoid your Bully because of studies?

No, they avoid the Bully because of their lack of knowledge of the studies. Where are the scientists taking a stand against Breed Specific Legislation? I can't think of anyone in this country who's expressed an opinion on the subject.

Dr Kirsti Seksel wrote probably the strongest critique of BSL to date.

Dr Seksel is a practicing vet behaviourist. I don't consider her as a scientist in the general meaning of the term. She does more than research and theorise. She's in the trenches of dog behavioural work.

The AVA have taken an open, public stand against BSL. Where are the research scientists in this?

Edited October 11, 2011 by poodlefan

[Aidan3]

The AVA have taken an open, public stand against BSL. Where are the research scientists in this?

You can ask RevJo about that, not a simple matter unfortunately. The data is already out there, I'm not sure how much more we need, but it's being ignored anyway. Do you think the scientific community can do better in communicating these ideas? I think they probably can, we can always do better in anything really.

[dog_fan]

The community has a deep distrust of scientists, based on their experiential data.

The public are their guinea pigs with many people being harmed by their research findings.

Let's look at the scientists who's research findings were that smoking was actually healthy, and there are many many more examples. Look at the scientists who sell out their ethics to the highest bidder, more often the pharmaceutical companies.

It is no wonder people are sceptical of what a scientists motives are. We want to know if they are on the side of good not evil and to be frank the arrogant post by the scientist who started this post was appalling and incredibly short sighted. it does not bode well for any future participation from this group of people.

[Aidan3]

Why dont researchers spend some time doing positive studies on dogs and highlight their strengths

Once you start looking there is actually quite a good body of research along those lines. One author whose work I was recently studying is investigating the positive effects of pet dogs using experimental methods, this is fairly new and can tell us a lot about how dogs cause positive benefits (as opposed to previous research which looked at associations, but not causes).

Corvus' research (which I can't tell you much about because I don't know much about it) is looking at personality dimensions in dogs, specifically a bias for optimism. This probably has more application in human psychology but it's cool to know more about how dogs think (where for so long science has treated animals as machines). One of RevJo's research interests is also how dogs think; I think that's really positive stuff. The more you get into this stuff, the more you realise how useful this sort of research really is, not just for dogs but for people and other animals too.

[Crisovar]

Quite often surveys give such limited choices that you cannot give an accurate answer, I have no idea if this was the case here.

Timid is not a word I would use to describe sighthounds, someone who has only lived with a breed such as Labs or Staffords may disagree. I love their aloofness, their disdain for people or activities that do not interest them and their keenness for the chase and hunt. Sighthounds doing what they are bred for could not be described as timid.