Why Do Sighthounds Tend To Be Timid/sensitive?

[raineth]

Corvus, imagine doing a study on canine nutrition and coming in here and starting a topic "Why are gun dogs so fat?"

All of your research will be wasted if people don't want to hear it.

lol yes

[poodlefan]

well not really... because it was an exploratory question taht was based on research she had done that showed sighthounds to be lower on the scale of "boldness" having found that, why would she come on here and ask that question?

She wanted to see if anyone had ideas on why they might be lower on the boldness scale - not people opinions on whether they were or not.

Given that some sighthound breeds weren't included in that study, most of us had issues with the generalisation. Ex racing greyhounds aren't what I'd call indicative the temperament of all sighthounds.

What was the 'test'.. if it required approaching the tester for a treat.. quite a few ex-racers probably don't know what a treat is. And failure to approach may indicate disinterest, not timidity.

I think Corvus had already said the majority were not ex racing greys?

Corvus:

Most of the sighthounds in my survey were greyhounds.

The number of pet greyhounds from non-racing backgrounds is not likely to be significant IMO.

[fifi]

I'm not disrespecting Corvus' research, I'm interesting in the parameters used in terms of breeds, age, background.

Those variables will give you a skewed result if you are naming it 'Sighthounds' but only using a few of the breeds.

sighthound breeds have developed in different countries for different purposes, although prey drive is a common denominator, the way they were housed for instance will have had an impact on social development.

EG; pack housing vs hearth type hound rearing, where generations are chosen for their compatibility with those surrounds.

fifi

[Robbi]

I think we have to always be careful of any generalisations, in humans we would not like to be pigeonholed, say for an example "All red headed people of Celtic descent are bad tempered" would be an unacceptable theory and an overly sweeping statement.

By surmising that Sighthounds tend to be timid/sensitive we would be just as wrong. I live with a very dominant male Whippet, he shows many behaviours that admitedly seem unusual for a Whippet but not unusual for an alpha male maybe. He humps other dogs if not closely watched during play, guards the property superbly, was leash reactive and has always been jockeying to be pack leader over the other dogs we have/have had although not successful against my old Kelpie bitch.

Is Yogi timid, no but he is sensitive to many things in his envoironment, he hates thunder,firecrackers and many other things so he cant be labelled a typical Sighthound maybe Timid no, sensitive yes.

I also handle and work with 3 Borzoi, the oldest bitch is an absolute clown, she smiles at everybody loves a pat and a cuddle,no timidity or sensitivity. The oldest male is aloof but loves to play with his toys and I would call him timid however he was not socialised as a young dog so I think his timidity is due to that rather than him being a Sighthound.The young male Borzoi is a goofy goober, he is happy playful, gentle and what I call a dependable temprement, however a sensitive soul.

Just my personal experiences but 4 sighthounds all with very different natures

[poodlefan]

Male 'Zoi are growing on me.. goofy seems to be hard wired into them.

[Robbi]

Male 'Zoi are growing on me.. goofy seems to be hard wired into them.

Its a funny thing isn't it before I met Borzoi the last thing I would have called them was goofball clowns but over the last few years of being around them I have found them to have the most endearing characters.

[raineth]

Okay...

1. That most of the sighthounds in my survey were ex-racers is a massive assumption and one that can't be supported.

well not really... because it was an exploratory question taht was based on research she had done that showed sighthounds to be lower on the scale of "boldness" having found that, why would she come on here and ask that question?

She wanted to see if anyone had ideas on why they might be lower on the boldness scale - not people opinions on whether they were or not.

Given that some sighthound breeds weren't included in that study, most of us had issues with the generalisation. Ex racing greyhounds aren't what I'd call indicative the temperament of all sighthounds.

What was the 'test'.. if it required approaching the tester for a treat.. quite a few ex-racers probably don't know what a treat is. And failure to approach may indicate disinterest, not timidity.

I think Corvus had already said the majority were not ex racing greys?

Corvus:

Most of the sighthounds in my survey were greyhounds.

The number of pet greyhounds from non-racing backgrounds is not likely to be significant IMO.

Edited October 11, 2011 by raineth

[poodlefan]

Okay...

1. That most of the sighthounds in my survey were ex-racers is a massive assumption and one that can't be supported.

Can't be supported because there's no data on that or can't be supported because its factually inaccurate.

There are a handful of non-racing grey breeders in this country.

Might be one idea to run to ground... it's not only nature that determines temperament but nuture as we all know.

If the origin and early environment of dogs is a significant determinant of their temperament, seems to me that needs to be addressed before making any conclusions about their breed.

But hey, I'm not a scientist.

[Alyosha]

So the majority of survey results were about pet greyhounds, but we can't form the "massive assumption" that they are from racing backgrounds.

Yet we can form the massive assumption that results gleaned from this group relate directly to all sighthound breeds.

Gawd I can't spell...

Edited October 11, 2011 by Alyosha

[kinsella]

I am always wary of research done in a confrontational format. Why start any thread off with a poorly supported statement and expect logical input from those you have just irritated with a sweeping generalisation?

Poorly done and no useful data gleaned from this that I can see. JMHO.

[Skitch]

As an owner of a sighthound (well.. kind of. An italian greyhound Lol) I dont really find the generalization that they are timid to be offensive at all. In fact, I'd probably agree with it to some extent! My own dog is very, very shy.. we have done all that we can to make him outgoing as possible but we didn't adopt him until he was about 16 weeks and found out after that the breeder had never taken him outside. Completely ridiculous.. so I think that he'd be shy regardless of what breed he was but I do have to say that all of the other small sighthounds we've met (whippets, IGs, etc) have been varying degrees of shy/timid. Alot of the big sighthounds I've met haven't been shy at all though.. I'd hazard a guess and say it's something to do with the way small sighthound owners behave around their dogs ;). Rather than timid I think the smaller sighthounds tend to be incredibly sensitive/reactive to their environment.. they are very easily offended so to speak! Lol

[Rebanne]

I think Corvus had already said the majority were not ex racing greys?

Corvus:

Most of the sighthounds in my survey were greyhounds.

The number of pet greyhounds from non-racing backgrounds is not likely to be significant IMO.

I would state for a fact that most of the greyhounds in the survey were from a racing background and were not raised as pets from the get go. Only comparable to other breeds raised on rearing farms.

[Rebanne]

Okay...

1. That most of the sighthounds in my survey were ex-racers is a massive assumption and one that can't be supported.

Can't be supported because there's no data on that or can't be supported because its factually inaccurate.

There are a handful of non-racing grey breeders in this country.

Might be one idea to run to ground... it's not only nature that determines temperament but nuture as we all know.

If the origin and early environment of dogs is a significant determinant of their temperament, seems to me that needs to be addressed before making any conclusions about their breed.

But hey, I'm not a scientist.

and I'm one of them and my recent litter of 8 was the first in the country for 22 months. There has been another litter recently born, so we woul have around 100 at the most non race bred greys in Aus and most of them could be accounted for.

[poodlefan]

and I'm one of them and my recent litter of 8 was the first in the country for 22 months. There has been another litter recently born, so we woul have around 100 at the most non race bred greys in Aus and most of them could be accounted for.

Not a lot of BYB litters either as far as I can figure.

[Rebanne]

and I'm one of them and my recent litter of 8 was the first in the country for 22 months. There has been another litter recently born, so we woul have around 100 at the most non race bred greys in Aus and most of them could be accounted for.

Not a lot of BYB litters either as far as I can figure.

no money to be made in them, they are not a popular breed to own as a puppy, only BYBer's would be from race dogs free to good home and used for breeding pig dogs.

disclaimer, not to say there might not be a showbred dog out there helping to produce pig dogs but the odds aren't good on it.

[Greytmate]

EG; pack housing vs hearth type hound rearing, where generations are chosen for their compatibility with those surrounds.

fifi

Huge topic Fifi. I believe the dogs are selected for the traits that allow them to thrive in a kennel environment. Those that don't are culled. But behaviorists have argued that I am wrong and it is only the socialisation (institutionalisation) of race reared greys that makes them different from other breeds in the way they engage with their environment.

[Rebanne]

EG; pack housing vs hearth type hound rearing, where generations are chosen for their compatibility with those surrounds.

fifi

Huge topic Fifi. I believe the dogs are selected for the traits that allow them to thrive in a kennel environment. Those that don't are culled. But behaviorists have argued that I am wrong and it is only the socialisation (institutionalisation) of race reared greys that makes them different from other breeds in the way they engage with their environment.

I would agree with you Greytmate, no good having a world beater who leaves it all in the kennel.

[fifi]

EG; pack housing vs hearth type hound rearing, where generations are chosen for their compatibility with those surrounds.

fifi

Huge topic Fifi. I believe the dogs are selected for the traits that allow them to thrive in a kennel environment. Those that don't are culled. But behaviorists have argued that I am wrong and it is only the socialisation (institutionalisation) of race reared greys that makes them different from other breeds in the way they engage with their environment.

Poor Corvus, I can hear the sound of an exploding brain !!

yes, each factor brings in wider issues.

The selection for tamenes / compatibility done in the Russian fox breeding springs to mind.

fifi

edited to add word

Edited October 11, 2011 by fifi

[corvus]

I wasn't trying to communicate my intent in the OP. I was trying to open the way for sighthound people to comment without leading them. I am happy with how people responded and continue to respond. It gave me the different perspective I was seeking.

If I had data that showed gundogs were more often overweight than other breed groups, I think "Why are gundogs fat?" would be a good question. It gives people the opportunity to say "They're not if fed properly" or "they do seem to have a tendency to get fat easily" and an opportunity to offer explanations for why it might appear that they are, which is basically what I got from the sighthound people. If some gundog people get offended along the way, well, that's a shame because I wasn't saying their gundogs were fat. However, I would like to point out once again that there's nothing wrong with being shy or "less-bold". There is something wrong with being fat.

As far as statistics is concerned, we like to pretend that our samples are representative of the population, but I think realistically that is highly unlikely. In my view, there will be skews. It doesn't mean the research is codswallop. It just means there are pieces missing and I get to try to guess what they are and how to fill them in, which is uber fun and challenging.

From here I hit the literature again and try to find support for some of the things people here have said. If I find it, it goes into the paper and I get to discuss it. If I don't find it, it's difficult to justify discussing it. Journals don't like a lot of speculation.

[poodlefan]

I wasn't trying to communicate my intent in the OP. I was trying to open the way for sighthound people to comment without leading them. I am happy with how people responded and continue to respond. It gave me the different perspective I was seeking.

If I had data that showed gundogs were more often overweight than other breed groups, I think "Why are gundogs fat?" would be a good question. It gives people the opportunity to say "They're not if fed properly" or "they do seem to have a tendency to get fat easily" and an opportunity to offer explanations for why it might appear that they are, which is basically what I got from the sighthound people. If some gundog people get offended along the way, well, that's a shame because I wasn't saying their gundogs were fat. However, I would like to point out once again that there's nothing wrong with being shy or "less-bold". There is something wrong with being fat.

There is if it's specifically listed as a breed fault. I can't speak for other sighthound breeds but the extended Whippet breed standard describes temperament thus:

TEMPERAMENT

Gentle, affectionate, even disposition.

The Whippet is one of the least aggressive of dogs, both with people and with other

dogs. He is gentle and affectionate in the extreme, but will also form a very close

relationship with one particular person. He is amenable to discipline and very anxious

to please. Whilst all this is true, he should not be at all retiring or shy. He might not be

very interested in you, as a stranger, but he most definitely should not be timid, and

will, given cause, warn off intruders.Look For: A relaxed but confident, even disposition. A Whippet should be neither

timid nor aggressive.

Anyone who doubts that a Whippet would be bold enough to warn off intruders need merely arrive at my house unannounced. I'd not go in my yard if Howie was out there and I wasn't home.

Edited October 11, 2011 by poodlefan