Why Do Sighthounds Tend To Be Timid/sensitive?

[The Spotted Devil]

Can I just ask how you draw the conclusion that sighthounds are timid from your results? Genuine question, not having a go here. What were the specific questions relating to their temperament?

It's kind of complicated. I did a principal components analysis, which basically is a way to objectively work out what exactly my survey was asking about and reducing the 50 odd questions down to more general concepts. It does it mathematically so that I'm not the one that decides which questions relate to which concepts. Then I extracted the most meaningful component, looked at the questions that it was most strongly related to, compared that to previous studies, and gave it a name (boldness). Then I extracted boldness scores for every dog in the study and fitted a straight line between those boldness scores and various different factors I thought might affect the boldness scores. Then I tested the significance of the regression, and built a linear mixed model one term at a time as I tested their significance and yadda yadda.

End result: Sighthounds have a lower boldness score as a group than most other groups. I can't really say if the results are right or wrong. I mean, we're talking about pesonality. All I can do is try to interpret the results accurately.

TSD: Public-owned dogs. Dogs' origins were not significant.

Interesting. Stats make sense. Sometimes I find the results can be right but the interpretative labels we put on them are perhaps just too limiting - out of necessity of course :p

Was thinking of your research today as I was reading an article on stress and coping styles :D

[Kirislin]

If you saw a trained racing or hunting whippet there'd be nothing timid about it and boldness would probably be off the chart. They go psycho.

[The Spotted Devil]

If you saw a trained racing or hunting whippet there'd be nothing timid about it and boldness would probably be off the chart. They go psycho.

Yes - that's what I mean by labels being limiting - it depends on what you are testing and under what circumstances. They need to be very carefully defined - I'm sure corvus has done that but it's hard to comprehend as a generalisation I guess.

My Dally will drop his bundle if you raise an eyebrow in training but never backs down if threatened by another dog.

My Springer is like a Jekyll/Hyde when you add birds into the equation

[Alyosha]

The opposite of bold is not necessarily timid. Reserved might be a better description for sighthounds if that's what you're looking for.

Not clear on what you're calling timid, I've always had sighthounds and any visitors we have or people we meet when we're out and about are pretty much mobbed.

Bold for sighthounds is contextual as well. Many are bold on the hunt - because that's what they are tuned into. But may not be bold around people, as many sighthounds can take or leave people (other than their own ones that is!).

And the fine bones and coat thing is a bit general. A good many sighthound breeds are long or rough coated, and care not for what they crash into if they are enjoying themselves...

I'm trying not to be offended by the timid generalisation as it is so far from correct sighthound temperament, and seems an unnecessarily negative box to put them in.

[corvus]

Was thinking of your research today as I was reading an article on stress and coping styles :D

Ooo, a Koolhaas article? *is a slight Koolhaas groupie* :D

You are quite right, the labels we use can be limiting. I'm calling it boldness because that's what other people have called roughly what I'm describing. It's a hard call because it's not exactly the same, but I think the last thing the personality literature needs is another term! Anyway, I was hoping to add to the current understanding of boldness in dogs by bringing in some 'bold' tendencies from other species, but it didn't work out that way. Might be that whatever we're describing in dogs is not the same supertrait as what other people are discribing in other species. Dogs are about the only ones we can ask such detailed questions about because people are living with them. It's maybe both a good thing and a bad thing.

[Fatsofatsoman]

My dad has owned greyhounds for donkey's years and none of them are timid - probably so confident in their own skin they don't feel the need to communicate with every tom dick and harry that enters the yard - and also sleeping a lot. Perhaps this aloofness is being labelled as timid?

[Kirislin]

and there's the quivering of course. Again, it's my little blueys that do it most. With their tails tucked between their legs and quivering like jelly it's easy to see why one might think they're timid.

[Greyt]

Can I just ask how you draw the conclusion that sighthounds are timid from your results? Genuine question, not having a go here. What were the specific questions relating to their temperament?

It's kind of complicated.

End result: Sighthounds have a lower boldness score as a group than most other groups. I can't really say if the results are right or wrong. I mean, we're talking about pesonality. All I can do is try to interpret the results accurately.

TSD: Public-owned dogs. Dogs' origins were not significant.

Must be hard to get a decent sample size. As well, unless you are asking K9's, then you a seeking humans opinions yes? So kind of like the difference in asking, "Can you prove with scientific certainty, that E=MC squared", vs, "Which is the best football team, or political party, or car?"

[Gogee]

Corvus, can you outline exactly what you mean by the terms "timid" and "bold" in your study? I know we all have a general idea of what those terms means, but it would help to know in what context you are using them.

Like some of the other posters have said, "sensitive", "reserved", and "aloof" more accurately describes (still a big generalisation) some breeds of sighthounds in my opinion. I agree with Alyosha that "Timidness" has a negative connotation, and doesn't sound like it would be breed/group specific to me.

Not disagreeing with your study at all, just interested

[Nekhbet]

I think it depends what you describe as timidity ... and it also depends what options you offered to the members of the survey - if you offer nothing closer then the term 'timid' to descibe the behaviour then thats what people will pick despite there being maybe better terms like 'aloof' or 'standoffish with strangers'.

If you want to test timidity I would be putting the dog in the position for which is was bred and would genetically excel ... eg put a sighthound with its owner on lead and let a rabbit go, if it tries to hide from the rabbit and buries its face into it's owner when the rabbit is close you could probably say it's timid ;)

My little bitch would be backing away from your advance and not want to be touched by you in the slightest if you just walked up to her. Timid is the last thing I would call her.

As for being sensitive, many other 'groups' could fall under that category. If you look at many breeds that work very closely with a primary human figuire they too tend to be what you would consider 'emotionally sensitive'.

Edited October 10, 2011 by Nekhbet

[anniek]

If you saw a trained racing or hunting whippet there'd be nothing timid about it and boldness would probably be off the chart. They go psycho.

Same for a greyhound when "in the zone".

My old boy had over 100race starts - he ran on adreneline. He is generally reserved, terrified of other dogs, loves people, but cetrainly not "bold" or "timid".

[corvus]

The opposite of bold is not necessarily timid. Reserved might be a better description for sighthounds if that's what you're looking for.

Well, it all boils down to approach/avoidance, really. We're talking about very big, sweeping generalisations. It has been validated, though. I'm not trying to create a description of sighthound temperament from the results.

Not clear on what you're calling timid, I've always had sighthounds and any visitors we have or people we meet when we're out and about are pretty much mobbed.

I'm not going to give a definition because I haven't published it yet!

And the fine bones and coat thing is a bit general. A good many sighthound breeds are long or rough coated, and care not for what they crash into if they are enjoying themselves...

Most of the sighthounds in my survey were greyhounds.

I'm trying not to be offended by the timid generalisation as it is so far from correct sighthound temperament, and seems an unnecessarily negative box to put them in.

It's not a negative box at all. There is no need to be offended. Extreme boldness isn't exactly the bees knees. I'm not actually going to label anything 'timid' in the writeup, but don't feel like you want your dogs to be bold and if they aren't up there with the rotties they don't measure up somehow. Different dogs just have different styles. Obviously whatever they are doing has worked for them for a long time, so there's really no need to feel miffed. If it makes you feel any better, sighthounds as a group are far from extremely shy. It's a continuum rather than two catagories.

[poodlefan]

Howie timid.

He IS sensitive. Sighthounds in my experience don't cope well with owners who throw tantrums and get physical with them. They neither forgive nor forget.

If I were going to look for a reason some sighthounds were sensitive, I'd be looking hard at how they were socialised.. or not.

Edited October 10, 2011 by poodlefan

[Dogsfevr]

But comparing bold is like comparing apples to oranges.

You also can't compare a Rotti to a Grey

Most average Joe would have no idea what a correct Greyhound temp was ,when we owned 13 & showed most people presumed they where nasty & would chase there kids or worse.No one ever said look at the timid greyhound

[Alyosha]

Most of the sighthounds in my survey were greyhounds.

Might be more effective to ask why greyhounds tend to be timid instead then. ;) If that's what the survey shows and is what you're basing the question on.

[The Spotted Devil]

Was thinking of your research today as I was reading an article on stress and coping styles :D

Ooo, a Koolhaas article? *is a slight Koolhaas groupie* :D

Nah - it just came up as a possible explanation for quite different physiological and behavioural responses to learning in animal shelters - not as complicated as your stuff I suspect but very interesting from my perspective. Blackwell et al. 2010

You are quite right, the labels we use can be limiting. I'm calling it boldness because that's what other people have called roughly what I'm describing. It's a hard call because it's not exactly the same, but I think the last thing the personality literature needs is another term! Anyway, I was hoping to add to the current understanding of boldness in dogs by bringing in some 'bold' tendencies from other species, but it didn't work out that way. Might be that whatever we're describing in dogs is not the same supertrait as what other people are discribing in other species. Dogs are about the only ones we can ask such detailed questions about because people are living with them. It's maybe both a good thing and a bad thing.

Hasn't quite a bit of work on personality in dogs been based on personality in people?

My initial research data looks really obvious to some but surprisingly it has never been done - sometimes people forget about scientifically establishing the bleeding obvious

[pixie_meg]

only ever met one timid borzoi and she had an unknown history. I've met a lot of borzoi and they are quite bold imo and yes even when comparing to a rottie. Same for wolfhounds. Haven't met a timid pharaoh or ibizan or afghan for that matter. They can sometimes be a little sensitive touch wise and aloof but not the same thing. Some whippets i've known are more shy but given their size comparatively i don't blame them.

Were the group of sighthound you surveyed had proper socialisation?

[Kirty]

The majority of the sighthounds I know are reserved, or maybe aloof is a better word? But not timid. I work with a Pharoah Hound and an Ibizan Hound and both can be quite snobby, but they aren't frightened. My own Greyhound is sensitive (if you scold her, you can see her heart break in front of your eyes lol) but she LOVES attention and loves everyone and everything. :D

[Swizzlestick]

With most of your sighthounds in the study being greyhounds (racing bred I presume), I'd say that skews your results enormously.

The majority of racing greys have little to no socialisation as pups, and some of their handling isn't exactly confidence building either.

I know your study will have dogs from all walks of life, but when the vast majority of one of your samples has next to no socialisation at all, I don't see the results ringing true.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

It's not a negative box at all. There is no need to be offended. Extreme boldness isn't exactly the bees knees. I'm not actually going to label anything 'timid' in the writeup, but don't feel like you want your dogs to be bold and if they aren't up there with the rotties they don't measure up somehow. Different dogs just have different styles. Obviously whatever they are doing has worked for them for a long time, so there's really no need to feel miffed. If it makes you feel any better, sighthounds as a group are far from extremely shy. It's a continuum rather than two catagories.

I think people have responded very moderately to what was a rather inflammatory question. If you posted that question into some of the OFC sighthound groups you'd be eaten alive.