Isabel964 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 If your dog flys under the coffee table and lays there shaking in fear because of thunder.....do you just leave her? I want to comfort her but I don't want to make it worse. She is an 11yr old kelpie and it seems to get worse as she gets older. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 yep .. I just leave 'em be.. or , if you have a bed somewhere cosy and dark.. put them in there. Hamlet asks to go to his bed in my room, usually .. so in he goes , and stays there. I don't even talk to him ..and he comes out when he's ready. He's only recently started being unnerved by storms ... if you have any rescue remedy .. use a couple drops every 1/2 hour or so . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 If your dog flys under the coffee table and lays there shaking in fear because of thunder.....do you just leave her? I want to comfort her but I don't want to make it worse. She is an 11yr old kelpie and it seems to get worse as she gets older. Try talking in a jolly happy voice rather than a soothing there there voice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raineth Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 poor thing as much as you feel for her, don't comfort her as that will only encourage her fear. For the long term though I would look into desensitising her so she can be rid of her fear. A thunderdhirt may also be of assistance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isabel964 Posted October 7, 2011 Author Share Posted October 7, 2011 I raised her during thunder with a jolly voice, calm, no reassuring etc and she was fine for about 9 years. Last year started to get funny about it. She is under the coffee table and when a new clap of thunder occurs she ties to jump on my lap or lay on my feet against my legs. Poor girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keira&Phoenix Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 My 4 yo used to be fine with storms and thunder but last year thought the hail would be fun to chase (she was at my Mums and the storm came on quickly) and got hit in the head by a piece. Ever since then she has been unnerved by thunder. She tends to try to hide under my bed if I am not home, otherwise she will get up where ever I am and sit close to me but I don't comfort her, I just let her sit there next to me and continue doing what I was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 You can't reinforce fear. If she wants to be close to you because she's terrified, why wouldn't you let her? It's not like it can get much worse. My old girl was terrified of fireworks. When the commercial ones were going off across the road I sat under my desk with her pressed under my legs and held her there. If I didn't hold her she would run around hysterically. She was better being held. You don't have to coddle or anything. Just be there for her. Calmly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 If she is safe and happy under there I would leave her be. Strangely my Kelpie X seems to be getting better as she gets older. She used to shake and bark and hide under the table, now at 12 she doesn't notice as much - I think because her hearing is starting to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirislin Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Poor things, my natural instinct would be to comfort them but I know that's the worst thing you can do. Here, only Feather is developing a fear of storms and I'll often go outside and potter in the garden or do poo patrol, or play with the boys. I encourage her to come out too which she does. Sometimes she seems to get over it but I saw her trembling just before, but I ignored it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9angel Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Our Jasmine (nearly 10) border collie x kelpie is absolutely petrified of storms too. We just had one pass and she is still sitting on the lounge panting away. She gets the shakes too. She's been storm phobic the whole time weve had her (2 yrs). I usually just carry on as normal so she knows there's nothing to fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 I'm not sure I buy into the "don't comfort them as it'll make it worse" theory. Whether I comfort my thunderphobic dog or not, he's petrified. I usually let him know that yes, I hear it too, but try not to worry too much. I give him a confident pat then go on with what I was doing. If he wants to sit his 35kg bum on my lap, he can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Pumpit used to be fine - the last 6 months she has been a big scaredy cat. Now she tries to climb onto my lap. I know I'm not supposed to comfort her, but it is just my instinct. I tried a tight jacket - helped a little but my other dog tries to pull it off her so it only lasts a couple of minutes. We are not yet into the thundershirt stage. I would hate to spend the money on one, and Blister just pulls it off her. Sometimes Blister drags Pumpit around the floor by her jacket I wonder what happens to make them suddenly be scared??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 I ignore my old girl when she does the "I'm scared of thunderstorms" thing... or if she's particularly freaked, I find she settles if I put her in the bathroom with a blanky and shut the door. She seems to feel much safer in there for some reason... I can't pick up and cuddle a storm phobic 30kg Rotti/Pittie cross... just gotta make sure she's somewhere she feels safe and wait for it to pass. T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 (edited) These days the recommendation is that you sit with them in the case of storms or fireworks. As Corvus has said above. Phobia inhibition or lack of has to do with normal brain ageing. Dogs that were never scared before become scared and then when their hearing goes often they are ok again. Thundershirt, DAP diffuser and specific phobia herbal treatments made up for dogs in particular are all things worth trying. ETA: Seems like we are going to have a regular electrical storm cycle this Summer in Melbourne, going by the looks of things. Edited October 7, 2011 by Staff'n'Toller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Poor things, my natural instinct would be to comfort them but I know that's the worst thing you can do. It is NOT the worst thing you can do! What you are seeing is an emotional response. It is not operative, therefore, it does not fall under the rules of the quadrants. You cannot reinforce it. I repeat, you cannot reinforce it. There is so much confusion around this and it drives me crazy because dogs suffer because people are too afraid to do anything lest they reinforce something that cannot be reinforced with rewards. Positive reinforcement creates a positive emotional state. Fear is a negative emotional state. They are antagonistic. One will win out. "Rewarding" fearful behaviour can only help change a fearful animal's emotional state to a positive one. The confusion I think lies in coddling. Lots of nervous energy around a dog that is already fearful does not make them feel better. Making baby sounds and cooing over them and so on may well make them worse, but not because it is rewarding. It just prepares them to feel frightened and arouses them so they become more reactive. Calm comforting will not make it worse. It probably won't make it better either, but I know dogs that it did help, my own being one of them. Some of us spent years stoically ignoring our fearful dogs because we thought it was best for them, only to try comforting as a last resort when they were old and we figured it couldn't get any worse. If your dog can't settle on their own, there is nothing at all wrong with comforting them if it calms them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedazzledx2 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 I really want a 'like' button! :D Poor things, my natural instinct would be to comfort them but I know that's the worst thing you can do. It is NOT the worst thing you can do! What you are seeing is an emotional response. It is not operative, therefore, it does not fall under the rules of the quadrants. You cannot reinforce it. I repeat, you cannot reinforce it. There is so much confusion around this and it drives me crazy because dogs suffer because people are too afraid to do anything lest they reinforce something that cannot be reinforced with rewards. Positive reinforcement creates a positive emotional state. Fear is a negative emotional state. They are antagonistic. One will win out. "Rewarding" fearful behaviour can only help change a fearful animal's emotional state to a positive one. The confusion I think lies in coddling. Lots of nervous energy around a dog that is already fearful does not make them feel better. Making baby sounds and cooing over them and so on may well make them worse, but not because it is rewarding. It just prepares them to feel frightened and arouses them so they become more reactive. Calm comforting will not make it worse. It probably won't make it better either, but I know dogs that it did help, my own being one of them. Some of us spent years stoically ignoring our fearful dogs because we thought it was best for them, only to try comforting as a last resort when they were old and we figured it couldn't get any worse. If your dog can't settle on their own, there is nothing at all wrong with comforting them if it calms them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlet Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 I have one dog who frantically runs around barking when storms are approaching / on. If I'm out I'll come home to a drenched, exhausted dog-still running around. I don't think he can stop himself and he appears relieved when I stop him. I put him on a lead and tie him inside next to my chair.I'll then sit and watch TV or listen to music -I don't know if the external noise helps. I do stay close and talk to him in a normal voice. Anyway he settles really well. It's almost as if I have taken control and he can "give up" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 I really want a 'like' button! :D Aw, thanks. This is a real bug bear of mine. I'm sorry if I got a bit ranty. It's nothing personal, Kirislin, just frustrates me that it's such a widespread belief and one I believe can do more harm than good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 It is NOT the worst thing you can do! What you are seeing is an emotional response. It is not operative, therefore, it does not fall under the rules of the quadrants. You cannot reinforce it. I repeat, you cannot reinforce it. There is so much confusion around this and it drives me crazy because dogs suffer because people are too afraid to do anything lest they reinforce something that cannot be reinforced with rewards. Positive reinforcement creates a positive emotional state. Fear is a negative emotional state. They are antagonistic. One will win out. "Rewarding" fearful behaviour can only help change a fearful animal's emotional state to a positive one. The confusion I think lies in coddling. Lots of nervous energy around a dog that is already fearful does not make them feel better. Making baby sounds and cooing over them and so on may well make them worse, but not because it is rewarding. It just prepares them to feel frightened and arouses them so they become more reactive. Calm comforting will not make it worse. It probably won't make it better either, but I know dogs that it did help, my own being one of them. Some of us spent years stoically ignoring our fearful dogs because we thought it was best for them, only to try comforting as a last resort when they were old and we figured it couldn't get any worse. If your dog can't settle on their own, there is nothing at all wrong with comforting them if it calms them. Thank you corvus, that was a good explanation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbesotted Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 I really want a 'like' button! :D Aw, thanks. This is a real bug bear of mine. I'm sorry if I got a bit ranty. It's nothing personal, Kirislin, just frustrates me that it's such a widespread belief and one I believe can do more harm than good. love your post Corvus... i too calmly sit with my storm phobic dogs. This morning i was awakened around 5am by the arrival on my bed of a couple of old retired maremmas.. both with their eyes popping and panting like steam engines ... drooling as well LOL. In the far distance i could just detect the faintest sounds of thunder.. so up i got and sat in the lounge surrounded by the old couple and of course dear snotto.. who is younger but really not happy with storms either... i will add that over the years i have spent many hours sitting in sheep and goat shelters with several maremmas during storms H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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