Dog Pees On People I Don't Like...

[Ons]

I would be absolutely horrified if any of my male dogs peed on anybody and their clothes. One of my male dogs goes to pee on cars when I walk him and I give him a quick no and he stops (well except for the Telstra van - I let him pee on that )

People visit - dogs get put away especially if the visitors don't like the dogs. If you do let your dog out have a very short lead on him so that if he goes to pee on something you can quickly pull away with a sharp "no" and take him outside to pee.

As for chewing the paws, that is a concern. My coolie does that when he is stressed so it's up to me as his owner to look for what is stressing him. He also doesn't like young dark haired men having been abused before he was rescued but he doesn't go peeing on them or their clothes.

[Animal House]

As others have suggested, get a (recommended) behaviorist out to assess the dogs behavior.

It is often something easily fixable and easy for us owners to implement.

I got one out for my dog and the behavior I thought was dominant was actually fear based.

In the meantime, put Sammy outside, in another room or crate him when you have visitors. My dog also chewed paws when stressed.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Dan does train him but he's not interested. He won't work for food and if he hasnt seen me in a while he will just go looking for me.

Susan Garrett would call this a classic case of the "don't wanna don't hafta" on the part of the dog, and she'd "work through it" ie stop the dog from finding his own fun (you) until he'd done what Dan wanted. Ie remove all re-inforcement. So you and Dan would need to work together until the dog understands that he's required to do what Dan asks. It would be important that you were no fun at all if the dog leaves work with Dan to be with you.

A dog can be trained out of it. And you could be the reward, ie he works with Dan, he gets to play with you for a bit, the he works with Dan again etc. ie "Premack" time with you, make it conditional on working with Dan.

As for having nasty people over when you don't want them, this can be a down side of being in a club and hosting social events, and something you might want to discuss with your club president. It is not ok for club members to come around and be disrespectful of you and your place and your dog, so I would think it fine to exclude particular members on this basis.

Or you can have social events with invited club members - ie stop inviting everyone and just invite the specific people whose company you enjoy. It won't be a club event and you can ask people you didn't invite to leave.

I belong to several clubs that have social functions - and sometimes people are invited individually when certain members make the event no fun. And sometimes respected club members have a quiet word in the ear of the misbehaving member and send them home or tell them not to show up. Club members can be expelled from the club if they are consistently bringing the club into disrepute or generally being so obnoxious nobody wants them there. Keeping people like that in a club can find the club reduced to a membership of 1 person.

[jacqui835]

Dan does train him but he's not interested. He won't work for food and if he hasnt seen me in a while he will just go looking for me.

Susan Garrett would call this a classic case of the "don't wanna don't hafta" on the part of the dog, and she'd "work through it" ie stop the dog from finding his own fun (you) until he'd done what Dan wanted. Ie remove all re-inforcement. So you and Dan would need to work together until the dog understands that he's required to do what Dan asks. It would be important that you were no fun at all if the dog leaves work with Dan to be with you.

A dog can be trained out of it. And you could be the reward, ie he works with Dan, he gets to play with you for a bit, the he works with Dan again etc. ie "Premack" time with you, make it conditional on working with Dan.

As for having nasty people over when you don't want them, this can be a down side of being in a club and hosting social events, and something you might want to discuss with your club president. It is not ok for club members to come around and be disrespectful of you and your place and your dog, so I would think it fine to exclude particular members on this basis.

Or you can have social events with invited club members - ie stop inviting everyone and just invite the specific people whose company you enjoy. It won't be a club event and you can ask people you didn't invite to leave.

I belong to several clubs that have social functions - and sometimes people are invited individually when certain members make the event no fun. And sometimes respected club members have a quiet word in the ear of the misbehaving member and send them home or tell them not to show up. Club members can be expelled from the club if they are consistently bringing the club into disrepute or generally being so obnoxious nobody wants them there. Keeping people like that in a club can find the club reduced to a membership of 1 person.

It's not that sort of club unfortunately, and we already have a lot of problems with intra-group disputes. Just trust me when I tell you that if we could get rid of him, we would. I will keep Sammy with me at all times from now on when we have people over - I have never had any sort of issue when I've been in the same room as him, and if it did, at least I could react and provide him with a less desirable consequence.

Thank you for the advice re Dan - we will start trying to do this. If you saw it though - there are times when Dan (or whoever) is holding the food, issuing the command, and Sammy is just staring right at me, doesn't break eye contact. And I do reward him when he obeys Dan - once an order is given by either Dan or myself I expect it to be followed through. But like say we get home from work and Dan lets Sammy inside, he just runs straight past him and looks for me. He's been like this since he was a baby - I guess we bonded at about 3-4 months? and every trainer has just said it's a doberman thing - that they typically only work for one person so I thought nothing of it really until now. Don't get me wrong, he loves Dan and they have their beautiful moments, but what Dan always says is that he feels loved by Sammy but that Sammy is my dog.

Anyone who was at lure coursing the other day would have seen that Dan tried to catch Sammy at the end of the track, but Sammy always ran back to me (even when he couldn't see or hear me - he just goes back to where he last saw me).

[poodlefan]

Thank you for the advice re Dan - we will start trying to do this. If you saw it though - there are times when Dan (or whoever) is holding the food, issuing the command, and Sammy is just staring right at me, doesn't break eye contact. And I do reward him when he obeys Dan - once an order is given by either Dan or myself I expect it to be followed through. But like say we get home from work and Dan lets Sammy inside, he just runs straight past him and looks for me. He's been like this since he was a baby - I guess we bonded at about 3-4 months? and every trainer has just said it's a doberman thing - that they typically only work for one person so I thought nothing of it really until now. Don't get me wrong, he loves Dan and they have their beautiful moments, but what Dan always says is that he feels loved by Sammy but that Sammy is my dog.

Anyone who was at lure coursing the other day would have seen that Dan tried to catch Sammy at the end of the track, but Sammy always ran back to me (even when he couldn't see or hear me - he just goes back to where he last saw me).

Absent yourself. Its not fair on Dan or the dog to have you present if Dan is meant to be the one training. Loosen the reins and let your OH and the dog develop their own relationship. Leave the house, the area or whatever but don't be where the dog knows you're around.

I don't allow this if I take a training class. The trainer HAS to be the focus of the dog's attention, not other family members hanging around distracting the dog.

I'm getting that you kind of enjoy that the dog blows off Dan to focus on you. Picture yourself away from home for two weeks and you'll start to see that Dan also has to have an effective relationship with the dog. I'd also have Dan take over all feeding duties and half the walking (without you)

Edited October 6, 2011 by poodlefan

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Sammy is just staring right at me, doesn't break eye contact

My dog won't always take food. Most of the time she's really keen to take it and these days are much better than when we started. She's still very uncomfortable next to busy roads - won't take anything. Possums were way more interesting than I could be. I had to learn a lot about dog training. I put a lot of things "on permission". "go sniff", "go play", "go say hello". Otherwise she would make her own decisions about when she was going to do these things. Now I tell her when she can and when she can't. We're not 100% reliable about it but we can get around the whole agility course without stopping to track possums, greet the instructor and all the other dogs in the class. And we don't have to check the tunnel for treats. Wasn't always like that. If I wanted her to work with other handlers - we'd need to start again with the basics with few distractions or opportunity for self-reward. And the first distraction we'd have to counter - would be me.

So essentially you are a "high level distraction" and also a "high level reward". If your dog is distracted by you when he's supposed to be working with Dan - Dan and dog are too close to you, or you're too close to them. May help if you refuse to make eye contact with your dog eg look at Dan instead like you find Dan the most fascinating thing in the room, or just get a bit further away - if dog is distracted by you.

Again - you may need to take Dan back to baby steps with your dog. Ie at lure coursing there's a lot going on, high level distractions, without the foundation training with Dan - Dan's going to get nothing. Start with things that are easy for Dan and Sammy to get right, and build up the distractions (you get closer or noisier etc), and get Dan to ask for five easy tasks (eg "watch me") and then after at least five attempts - release Dan to you for play. Then start over.

Don't expect too much too soon, and don't assume because it doesn't happen all the time that you can't improve gradually towards where you want to be.

I don't get it about the club member, I can't imagine any club putting up with that level of crap. Maybe operant conditioning would work on him, ie notice the tiny weeny things he does right and compliment those. Ignore or cut off all the crap (prevent / stop re-inforcement). And I agree - keep your dog away from them.

[WreckitWhippet]

I have the simple solution.

1. Don't allow people you do not like into your home. That should solve any problems with the dog misbehaving

2. Don't take your dog with you, if there are going to be people you don't like there.

[jacqui835]

Thank you for the advice re Dan - we will start trying to do this. If you saw it though - there are times when Dan (or whoever) is holding the food, issuing the command, and Sammy is just staring right at me, doesn't break eye contact. And I do reward him when he obeys Dan - once an order is given by either Dan or myself I expect it to be followed through. But like say we get home from work and Dan lets Sammy inside, he just runs straight past him and looks for me. He's been like this since he was a baby - I guess we bonded at about 3-4 months? and every trainer has just said it's a doberman thing - that they typically only work for one person so I thought nothing of it really until now. Don't get me wrong, he loves Dan and they have their beautiful moments, but what Dan always says is that he feels loved by Sammy but that Sammy is my dog.

Anyone who was at lure coursing the other day would have seen that Dan tried to catch Sammy at the end of the track, but Sammy always ran back to me (even when he couldn't see or hear me - he just goes back to where he last saw me).

Absent yourself. Its not fair on Dan or the dog to have you present if Dan is meant to be the one training. Loosen the reins and let your OH and the dog develop their own relationship. Leave the house, the area or whatever but don't be where the dog knows you're around.

I don't allow this if I take a training class. The trainer HAS to be the focus of the dog's attention, not other family members hanging around distracting the dog.

I'm getting that you kind of enjoy that the dog blows off Dan to focus on you. Picture yourself away from home for two weeks and you'll start to see that Dan also has to have an effective relationship with the dog. I'd also have Dan take over all feeding duties and half the walking (without you)

He does all of this (feeds and exercises the dog), and unfortunately my work requires that I travel regularly interstate often for up to a week or more at a time - leaving Dan to mind the dog. Sammy loves Dan (and Dan Sammy), and I love seeing them together - they play differently from how Sammy and I can play and get to wrestle and chase each other around. But if Dan says to Sammy at any moment, hey you're getting too rough, stop, lie down or whatever, he always obeys.

But ok for an example. If I take Sammy for a bike ride through the park (an off-lead area), I can have him off-lead and he stays at my side no problems. Dan can't have him off-lead without me, he disappears, won't come back etc. Sammy is no retriever but if I command for him to return something, he will. If Dan throws something, he can only make Sammy drop and leave it, not retrieve it.

I was always the one to feed my old dog and the one who walked him and yet he had eyes only for my dad (who he never saw). I didn't set out to create a dog that was so strongly bonded to me.

[aussielover]

I think Sammy's behaviour with Dan is normal.

My dog is similar. If I'm there she'll only work for me, or want me (except with a really experienced trainer who knows what they're doing and how to get a dog to work).

She runs straight past every other member of my family to greet me when we get home.

Honestly I think its only an issue if Dan doesn't like the situation (feels rejected or whatever) or if Sammy displays anxiety around Dan when you're not there.

[aussielover]

He does all of this (feeds and exercises the dog), and unfortunately my work requires that I travel regularly interstate often for up to a week or more at a time - leaving Dan to mind the dog. Sammy loves Dan (and Dan Sammy), and I love seeing them together - they play differently from how Sammy and I can play and get to wrestle and chase each other around. But if Dan says to Sammy at any moment, hey you're getting too rough, stop, lie down or whatever, he always obeys.

But ok for an example. If I take Sammy for a bike ride through the park (an off-lead area), I can have him off-lead and he stays at my side no problems. Dan can't have him off-lead without me, he disappears, won't come back etc. Sammy is no retriever but if I command for him to return something, he will. If Dan throws something, he can only make Sammy drop and leave it, not retrieve it.

I was always the one to feed my old dog and the one who walked him and yet he had eyes only for my dad (who he never saw). I didn't set out to create a dog that was so strongly bonded to me.

Maybe Dan should take some food or other reward with him when he exercises Sammy?

I found Sammy to be well balanced with people and other dogs (and horses!), obedient and with an excellent recall when I walked him...

I had both food and toy rewards availble which he seemed more than keen to work for.

Perhaps he just prefers girls lol

Edited October 6, 2011 by aussielover

[blitz3]

why are you so opposed to neutering? i know this isn't a cure but it may be a good start

[corvus]

If you saw it though - there are times when Dan (or whoever) is holding the food, issuing the command, and Sammy is just staring right at me, doesn't break eye contact. And I do reward him when he obeys Dan - once an order is given by either Dan or myself I expect it to be followed through.

Don't reward him when he does something Dan says. You're confirming his notion that you're the only one that matters. Like PF said, that is unfair to Dan. Dan should be the one to reward.

[jacqui835]

why are you so opposed to neutering? i know this isn't a cure but it may be a good start

I am not opposed to neutering in general - I recommend that most people desex their dogs and have convinced plenty to do so and it has been the right decision for them. That said, I have known a few dogs well that experienced strong changes to their personality post-neutering - and they're not changes I would find desirable. He performs well at training, doesn't try to run away, doesn't have any DA or HA and so I'm not sure that neutering is required. He does not mark anything we don't want him to, not at all whilst on-lead with the obvious exception of peeing 3 times on men that I have had issues with. I think the problem here is likely a combination of me, lack of supervision and absence of undesirable consequences, not his balls.

[Aziah]

why are you so opposed to neutering? i know this isn't a cure but it may be a good start

I am not opposed to neutering in general - I recommend that most people desex their dogs and have convinced plenty to do so and it has been the right decision for them. That said, I have known a few dogs well that experienced strong changes to their personality post-neutering - and they're not changes I would find desirable. He performs well at training, doesn't try to run away, doesn't have any DA or HA and so I'm not sure that neutering is required. He does not mark anything we don't want him to, not at all whilst on-lead with the obvious exception of peeing 3 times on men that I have had issues with. I think the problem here is likely a combination of me, lack of supervision and absence of undesirable consequences, not his balls.

You having "issues" with the men who were peed on does NOT make it ok...

This thread is

[jacqui835]

why are you so opposed to neutering? i know this isn't a cure but it may be a good start

I am not opposed to neutering in general - I recommend that most people desex their dogs and have convinced plenty to do so and it has been the right decision for them. That said, I have known a few dogs well that experienced strong changes to their personality post-neutering - and they're not changes I would find desirable. He performs well at training, doesn't try to run away, doesn't have any DA or HA and so I'm not sure that neutering is required. He does not mark anything we don't want him to, not at all whilst on-lead with the obvious exception of peeing 3 times on men that I have had issues with. I think the problem here is likely a combination of me, lack of supervision and absence of undesirable consequences, not his balls.

You having "issues" with the men who were peed on does NOT make it ok...

This thread is

sigh where did I ever say that it was ok? I just said that's why it has happened to date "a combination of me, lack of supervision and absence of undesirable consequences", not that I was going to encourage or even allow it to happen in the future...

[poodlefan]

sigh where did I ever say that it was ok? I just said that's why it has happened to date "a combination of me, lack of supervision and absence of undesirable consequences", not that I was going to encourage or even allow it to happen in the future...

Here:

But how does he know in a group of people the one that I won't mind him peeing on when he's meeting like 10 people for the first time...

And here:

I probably don't tell him off as much as I should - when you dislike someone as much as this (and if you have met me you'll probably have noticed that I like most people) and your dog pees on them well it's hard to be genuinely upset,

And here:

So no, I don't really care that my dog has peed on these people and that is the problem.

Perhaps if you seriously were concerned about the problem, you'd be on your way to dealing with it. Despite your protestations, the fact you really don't care is clear.

Your dog is not the solution to your problems with these people. Passive aggressive air punching when the dog "gives them a serve" is not the solution. Your dog is not a hero - he's got a filthy habit you need to fix. Stop anthropomorhisizing his behavior and take charge of the problem. Time to deal with the people and the dog. Start with not letting people you dislike into your home - that's what public places like clubs and restaurants are for.

If being around people makes you feel bad, don't be around them. You certainly shouldn't be subconsciously encouraging your dog to take steps when you won't do so yourself, particularly as this happens when you aren't there. What's to stop one of these people from kicking or punching the dog in retaliation? You've been given plenty of advice - time to stop talking and start doing.

Edited October 6, 2011 by poodlefan

[Andisa]

jacqui835 -

Would you be offended/upset if my dog walked up to you and pissed on you or your belongings?

[jacqui835]

Not offended, upset if I was wearing nice clothes...

Let me reiterate. Do I feel sorry for the guy who got peed on, does anybody - no. Do I think it's acceptable that my dog thinks he can pee on people I don't like - also, no.

Did I treat him like a hero- no, did other people pat him on the back - yes but by the time they did it he would not have known why...

Will I be leaving my dog unsupervised with anyone anymore - no, he will learn that I find that unacceptable, though if the past is anything to go by he won't try it in my presence.

[Atanquin]

Just put him outside or in a crate that's what I would do. And maybe talk to a trainer about it. I wouldn't desex because of that but I'm agenced de sexing my dogs as alot of people think that it's healthier for the dog but really it isn't and yes I have studied it as I'm doing a natural therapy course for horses and dogs an I choose to do extra study and it was about the desexing of animals but that is another topic, it sounds like a behavior issues which can be fixed with training not just the dog but you as well. Good luck and tell us how you get on and what you decide to do.