Bt A Bit Snarly

[BowWow]

My BT bitch (unspayed as yet) is almost 2 and we have basically resolved issues with her getting along with her (spayed)5 y/o mother.

Today I gave all three dogs bones (it was a beautiful day and they all enjoy a munch in the sun). The older two (male staff as well) had lost interest in theirs but the young one was still chewing. When my old staff walked past she launched herself at him to warn him off - until I intervened and yelled which made her stop. What worries me is my young daughter (7) was playing in the yard and there was no more disturbance until I popped inside to the toilet and my daughter then decided to come inside too. My young bitch ran at her (didn't touch her) growling and then stopped when my daughter yelled at her. She has never done this before and it worries me. She is normally a beautiful dog and any trouble that has happened in the past has been when she's in season, but she has never challenged my kids before and this really bothers me, especially with all the recent press on dog attacks. My daughters helped hand-raise her as a pup and have always followed my instructions when it comes to interactions with the dogs but this incident rattled me a heap. My bitch is getting spayed when her season has passed but the behavior today, I have no idea which way to approach. Any advice would be most appreciated.

[Mim]

Sounds like she's resource guarding her food. Feed the dogs completely separate and keep your daughter away and consult a behaviourist.

[Parkeyre]

Remove the risk of it happening again by feeding the dogs completely seperate to eachother.

I would be making sure that your daughter is no where near the dogs with food or high treasure toys/treats.

I recommend crates for feed time.

[juice]

Could be lots of things, food guarding, or at her age she has moved herself higher up.

Either way i would be getting help, and don't feed her anywhere near the other dogs or kids.

I have a female bt too, who elevated herself too high recently, with the wonderful help of K9 Pro i now have her where she should be.

When you have other dogs and kids you need to be very careful.

[persephone]

I will also advise

feed them totally separate

keep children away from them when feeding

consult a recommended behaviourist...ask on here if you need names

Hope it's sorted quickly .

[SoL]

Whatever you do, do NOT let this behaviour continue. Sounds like she's getting too big for her britches. Have you (yourself) tried taking food or bones from her whilst she's eating? Does she challenge you too?

Firstly, never feed these dogs unless and until they are separated. Secondly, make that little girl stand and ask for permission from you before you allow her to eat, which means standing over her food, not allowing to rush to her bowl, you pushing her back, whatever it takes until she gets the idea that you own the food and you are letting her eat when you say so. I would do this every time you put food down for her and this includes bones too. That would just touch the tip of the behavioural iceberg though and for the rest I would really suggest a GOOD behaviouralist.

Good luck with it all

[BowWow]

Thank you for all your views. SOL, no she is completely submissive with myself and my partner. In fact, after she threatened my daughter, I immediately went over and removed her bone. She daren't challenge me whether that be food/space/toys and I can take any one of those things off her at any time, whenever I feel the need and I do it often and regularly. She sits before getting her food and I take the bowl away whilst she is eating. Actually, to date all three dogs were always fed together without issues and I think it might be her being in season and maturing and thus attempting to elevate herself within the pack. She already controls the other two dogs and perhaps is attempting to extend her standing with the younger daughter. Of course I'll need to address this.

With past issues between the dogs (and usually when the little upstart was in season) I'd scold the young one which generally only made matters worse. But I found going with the natural order of things and acknowledging her as pack leader amongst the canine family members, kept things calm and problems never arose after that (I think I may have posted about previous problems before here on the forum) but now it's arisen again and I'm guessing her heat cycle is a part of it, albeit not an excuse, as well as her age. She's back to being little miss sweet today btw :S I'll take the advice given here, be even more watchful and mindful and perhaps engage a behaviorist if things don't calm. Any suggestions for Narbethong way (Victoria). Thanx!

Edited October 5, 2011 by BowWow

[mymatejack]

Thank you for all your views. SOL, no she is completely submissive with myself and my partner. In fact, after she threatened my daughter, I immediately went over and removed her bone. She daren't challenge me whether that be food/space/toys and I can take any one of those things off her at any time, whenever I feel the need and I do it often and regularly. She sits before getting her food and I take the bowl away whilst she is eating. Actually, to date all three dogs were always fed together without issues and I think it might be her being in season and maturing and thus attempting to elevate herself within the pack. She already controls the other two dogs and perhaps is attempting to extend her standing with the younger daughter. Of course I'll need to address this.

With past issues between the dogs (and usually when the little upstart was in season) I'd scold the young one which generally only made matters worse. But I found going with the natural order of things and acknowledging her as pack leader amongst the canine family members, kept things calm and problems never arose after that (I think I may have posted about previous problems before here on the forum) but now it's arisen again and I'm guessing her heat cycle is a part of it, albeit not an excuse, as well as her age. She's back to being little miss sweet today btw :S I'll take the advice given here, be even more watchful and mindful and perhaps engage a behaviorist if things don't calm. Any suggestions for Narbethong way (Victoria). Thanx!

I'm far from any expert but i'd be teaching your daughter how to act dominantly with the dog and then closely supervising your daughter doing things like taking food/bones off the dog(where you are still in a position to take control if need be) and other activities where the dog learns that it is lower in the pack than your daughter. Teaching the dog where her place is in the pack with respect to your other dogs, well thats harder and i honestly can't really suggest anything other than a behaviourist. My staffy learnt quickly that he was lower in the order than human children by close supervision(i.e within grabbing distance in case the need arose) with my nephew when my dog was still a pup and my nephew was still crawling. Time and effort, but i think you need to get onto it asap, the longer you leave it, the harder it will be to correct. Also, i wouldn't be making excuses for your dog(on heat or anything else), there is no excuse for snarling at a human she knows imo.

[Greytmate]

I'm far from any expert but i'd be teaching your daughter how to act dominantly with the dog and then closely supervising your daughter doing things like taking food/bones off the dog(where you are still in a position to take control if need be) and other activities where the dog learns that it is lower in the pack than your daughter. Teaching the dog where her place is in the pack with respect to your other dogs, well thats harder and i honestly can't really suggest anything other than a behaviourist. My staffy learnt quickly that he was lower in the order than human children by close supervision(i.e within grabbing distance in case the need arose) with my nephew when my dog was still a pup and my nephew was still crawling. Time and effort, but i think you need to get onto it asap, the longer you leave it, the harder it will be to correct. Also, i wouldn't be making excuses for your dog(on heat or anything else), there is no excuse for snarling at a human she knows imo.

That is a bit dangerous. I would just keep dog and children well apart and see the behaviourist.

[huski]

Dogs that resource guard aren't always "dominant" dogs. Even the lowest members of a pack will display resource guarding. Dogs resource guard because they don't want to lose an item they value, you need to teach them relinquishing these items won't end in a loss, simply taking items of value from them will reinforce their fear that having you near their food etc means you will take it away from them.

Edited October 5, 2011 by huski

[mymatejack]

I'm far from any expert but i'd be teaching your daughter how to act dominantly with the dog and then closely supervising your daughter doing things like taking food/bones off the dog(where you are still in a position to take control if need be) and other activities where the dog learns that it is lower in the pack than your daughter. Teaching the dog where her place is in the pack with respect to your other dogs, well thats harder and i honestly can't really suggest anything other than a behaviourist. My staffy learnt quickly that he was lower in the order than human children by close supervision(i.e within grabbing distance in case the need arose) with my nephew when my dog was still a pup and my nephew was still crawling. Time and effort, but i think you need to get onto it asap, the longer you leave it, the harder it will be to correct. Also, i wouldn't be making excuses for your dog(on heat or anything else), there is no excuse for snarling at a human she knows imo.

That is a bit dangerous. I would just keep dog and children well apart and see the behaviourist.

How else do you teach a dog that it mustn't react to children taking food away? Obviously it needs to be a very controlled situation but i don't see any other way. I'm not a professional dog trainer but thats the way i've always done it - of course if the dog is so reactive that you not 100% sure you can control the situation then it wouldn't be the way to do it(and if you've let it get to that stage well you need education on owning dogs), but a 7 yr old can easily step back if the dog starts to show aggressive body language(the owner needs to be telling their daughter to stop and move away and be close enough to step in between the child and dog if need be). The owner needs to decide whether such measures are possible or not. As i say, i'm not a professional dog trainer so my comments are for entertainment purposes only LOL

[Kavik]

I wouldn't have children try to take food or bones away from dog - too dangerous and risky! Better to allow the dog to eat in peace (I also recommend crates - that way no dog can intimidate another off of food or bones) and address the problem another way. Dogs + food + children close/taking food = accident!

In regards to children, getting dogs to do simple commands for treats (sit eg) works well and safer than trying to teach them to take food away. Dogs will view little babies differently to toddlers differently to children. There is no way you can get a dog to view a baby as higher in pecking order than a dog, but they are also no threat (just sit there, not moving yet) and so far I have found the most difficult time when they are starting to walk - 12 - 18 months or so, maybe up to 2 or 2 1/2 when they lean on/sit on and try to pull ears and tails and don't understand how to treat dogs and are also a bit unsteady on their feet.

[Monah]

Agree with Huski/Pers/Parkeye/Kavik and similar comments.

I have a non dominant dog who is a resource guarder around other dogs (and sometimes cats!)She is a sweetheart, loving etc. the rest of the time..

we don't allow the situation to ever get to that stage. I stopped bones and all raw meat (very high value) feeding for about a year, for everyone.

Very slowly introduced bones again with dogs in separate rooms, or, tied up in the garden at other ends. I always wash down the area and make sure I pick all the bits up.

The situation is managed here very well and we have only had one incident in 6 years, and that was when I changed the way of doing things. It has never escalated because the dog has never had the opportunity.

Humans can take anything off this dog, but I don't like the 'game' of taking food etc. for the reasons Huski mentioned. I do touch her bone and say what a lovely bone you have etc...I wold not do this if I thought she may launch or her body language was 'off'.

We do TOT every meal and have taken things very slowly over the years. Our resource guarder has improved incredibly, but I would never trust her or feed her with anyone else.

If kids are around, that's even more reason to be extra vigilant, no bone is worth a ripped up dog or bitten child.

[Jimmay]

Dogs that resource guard aren't always "dominant" dogs. Even the lowest members of a pack will display resource guarding. Dogs resource guard because they don't want to lose an item they value, you need to teach them relinquishing these items won't end in a loss, simply taking items of value from them will reinforce their fear that having you near their food etc means you will take it away from them.

This.

I actually recall seeing a study done on this with a pack of puppies, the lowest in the pack displayed the most resource guarding and the most dominant ones did not. They believe it had something to do with the lower dogs in the pack felt more insecure and therefore felt a real need to guard what was theirs. I do not believe food aggression has anything to do with being dominant.

To curb the problem you have to teach the dog that you are not going to be taking their food, and that approaching actually means they get more food.

I'm sorry mymatejack but what you are suggesting is very dangerous. I grew up with food aggressive dogs the last thing you want to do is try to assert dominance and challenge them for their food. When I did that as a kid it left me with a scar on my hand I still have to this day.

Edited October 5, 2011 by Jimmay

[Greytmate]

I'm far from any expert but i'd be teaching your daughter how to act dominantly with the dog and then closely supervising your daughter doing things like taking food/bones off the dog(where you are still in a position to take control if need be) and other activities where the dog learns that it is lower in the pack than your daughter. Teaching the dog where her place is in the pack with respect to your other dogs, well thats harder and i honestly can't really suggest anything other than a behaviourist. My staffy learnt quickly that he was lower in the order than human children by close supervision(i.e within grabbing distance in case the need arose) with my nephew when my dog was still a pup and my nephew was still crawling. Time and effort, but i think you need to get onto it asap, the longer you leave it, the harder it will be to correct. Also, i wouldn't be making excuses for your dog(on heat or anything else), there is no excuse for snarling at a human she knows imo.

That is a bit dangerous. I would just keep dog and children well apart and see the behaviourist.

How else do you teach a dog that it mustn't react to children taking food away? Obviously it needs to be a very controlled situation but i don't see any other way. I'm not a professional dog trainer but thats the way i've always done it - of course if the dog is so reactive that you not 100% sure you can control the situation then it wouldn't be the way to do it(and if you've let it get to that stage well you need education on owning dogs), but a 7 yr old can easily step back if the dog starts to show aggressive body language(the owner needs to be telling their daughter to stop and move away and be close enough to step in between the child and dog if need be). The owner needs to decide whether such measures are possible or not. As i say, i'm not a professional dog trainer so my comments are for entertainment purposes only LOL

Don't let children near a dog that is eating.

As others have said, you can teach a dog not to react to adults taking food away, by swapping for high value treats. However, this advice is not for anyone who is not getting proper guidance tailored to their dog and their family.

It is extremely dangerous to do something that is both annoying for the dog and the cause of many dog bites in homes.

It is not a good idea to post advice about dealing with dangerous dogs for your own entertainment. Dog aggression towards children is not something that can be solved with online advice. The advice to see a professional is the only responsible advice you can give in situations where a dog is behaving aggressively towards people.

[BowWow]

I personally wouldn't allow my young daughter to experiment with this either and I keep a watchful eye when the kids are around. I reiterate the rules to both dogs and kids - kids not to get on the floor with dogs, no food until everyone is sitting, no dogs on beds or couches, dogs get fed after humans (and no begging around the table or the humans go bananas) etc etc and the list goes on. However I am still accutely aware she has tried this kind of behaviour on the youngest human member and not the rest of us, so I'm guessing she's trying to elevate herself further in the family pack. I also caught her sitting on the youngest one's bed recently (strictly forbidden in this household) so further cause to believe she is trying her luck. This little BT is a strong-willed girl but with no nastiness or deviousness and she accepts discipline very well. I believe (after reading through many threads on this forum and others) that she is behaving like a typical dog and it's good that I am now able to read the signs better than I could before and at least nip issues in the bud as they arise. I think that is the key and on past occasions have missed warning signs and not completely understood or interpreted canine behaviour correctly. I've dealt with horses for years and the behaviours there are totally different from dogs. It wasn't until I truly took the time to understand the equine mind and behaviours that results followed surely and swiftly. I guess the same principals would apply for dogs too except I've never owned a female before and their way of going when they're in season is certainly something I'm not used to!! Anyway attached a coupla pics of mum and'the upstart'!!!!